Lurker > Babbit55

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

She doesnt sound paranoid.... because everyone walks about with a hand in a big! Be realistic.

It is realistic when apparently you get thugs teleporting in your face with a knife demanding your things, stab you from the ether when you use an ATM and park up behind your car to kidnap you.

Apart from they kinda do. A thug isnt going to walk up to you like a thug, but wait till your near. I have seen videos of some in China getting knifed in the back at an atm. And people in vans parking next to peoples cars and kidnapping them is a very common tactic they use

A meteor could also obliterate you where you stand, how would your gun protect you from that??

Look, guns are not magic forcefields that stop all theoretical attempts on your life, however I have never been in a violent confrontation where possession of a gun wouldn't stop it sharpish.

Practically speaking, a gun will keep you safe as long as you don't dick about with it, much like how a knife will help you prepare your dinner as long as you don't use it on yourself.

Thing is you apparently keep a gun for self defence, literally for the reasons I posted. If it no good in those, whats it good for? Huh?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

She doesnt sound paranoid.... because everyone walks about with a hand in a big! Be realistic.

It is realistic when apparently you get thugs teleporting in your face with a knife demanding your things, stab you from the ether when you use an ATM and park up behind your car to kidnap you.

Apart from they kinda do. A thug isnt going to walk up to you like a thug, but wait till your near. I have seen videos of some in China getting knifed in the back at an atm. And people in vans parking next to peoples cars and kidnapping them is a very common tactic they use
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

ultra magnus13 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Rasmoh posted...

But they are literally the only effective means of protection for huge amounts of people. If you have a more effective way for my 5'6" 130 lb wife to defend herself against a 6'2" 230lb attacker, I'd love to hear it.

How will a gun help her defend herself?

Let us take some scenarios and see how the gun helps!

1) Someone wants to mug her, he has a gun/knife in her face demanding her bag. She can either, give up the bag and live, or reach for her gun instead and just be shot or stabbed instead. Yeah that gun really helped!

Luckily she is smart and walks with a hand in her bag, she has it on her revolver and fires through the bag

2) Someone wants her dead, she is stood at an ATM getting money, someone walks up behind her and stabs/shoots her. She had no time to get her gun.

She is also aware of her surroundings, and when someone is appoaching her from behind at an atm she turns to face them, hand in her purse....

3)Kidnappers! She goes to get in her car and there is a van next to it, as she goes in her bag for her keys a man comes out the side door and puts a sack over her head, drags her in and knocks her out. He then takes the gun from her bag. Again so much use!

LIke you said, hand in bag.... she sees a man coming out the door towards her with a sack, she shifts her grip from her keys to her gun, falls on to her back to create distance and fires up.

Guns are crap for self defence.

People that take there personal protection seriously, are usually as well or better trained/prepaired than 75% of cops.

She doesnt sound paranoid.... because everyone walks about with a hand in a big! Be realistic.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

VeeVees posted...

sex chats

You understood my post!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Rasmoh posted...

But they are literally the only effective means of protection for huge amounts of people. If you have a more effective way for my 5'6" 130 lb wife to defend herself against a 6'2" 230lb attacker, I'd love to hear it.

How will a gun help her defend herself?

Let us take some scenarios and see how the gun helps!

1) Someone wants to mug her, he has a gun/knife in her face demanding her bag. She can either, give up the bag and live, or reach for her gun instead and just be shot or stabbed instead. Yeah that gun really helped!

2) Someone wants her dead, she is stood at an ATM getting money, someone walks up behind her and stabs/shoots her. She had no time to get her gun.

3)Kidnappers! She goes to get in her car and there is a van next to it, as she goes in her bag for her keys a man comes out the side door and puts a sack over her head, drags her in and knocks her out. He then takes the gun from her bag. Again so much use!

Guns are crap for self defence.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Loads, though Pretty sure linking any of them is bannable here.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Skallagrim - HEMA and weapon posting, talks about the usability of fantasy weapons too. Also, has an awesome beard

https://www.youtube.com/user/SkallagrimNilsson/featured

Man at arms - Forging sweet weapons!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNKcMBYP_-18FLgk4BYGtfw

Screen Junkies - Honest trailers, if you haven't watched there vids, go do it now.

https://www.youtube.com/user/screenjunkies
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Unbridled9 posted...

I think another big problem is that people tend to compare Sengoku-Era Samurai (appx: 1600 A.D.) to early feudal era knights (appx: 1000 A.D.) 600 years is kind of a huge thing in terms of technology even in those troubled times. Heck, just looking at the variety of swords knights had available to them in comparison to the Samurai should reveal just how different the technology and technological requirements were between the two.

That's not to say the samurai weren't extremely deadly and effective. It took a lot of work to become great as either. But they were two different warriors from two different cultures with two very different manners in which to approach war and, unfortunately for the Samurai, European armor was getting so good that they were starting to forgo shields where as Samurai basically lived in a world without them in the first place.

Yeah, I mean to put a point on what war looked like at the period, the English were fighting the Powhatan in America in 1610, with muskets. But the end of the 15th century, the idea of a knight being the backbone of an army was gone, everyone just had armies with firearms.

The knight would of been more 11th to 14th Century really. The Samurai did't really change much from the 11th to the 16th Century though, and only then because Europeans rocked up with good for trade like metal cuirass armour (that started to replace the then centuries old Lemella armour they made) and firearms. The latter changed the way the Japanese did war immensely (Like it did everywhere to be fair)
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Unbridled9 posted...

Honestly, the European Knight, at it's 'max potential' WOULD win... But that's got nothing to do with the sword.

The Naginata may be effective but it's just got jack on what the halibard, with it's triple-options, could do.

The Yumi might be good but it's just not in the same league as the crossbow.

However, European knights utilized shields and developed the stirrup which allowed them to engage in mounted combat in manners that the Japanese Samurai simply could not do. Even an 'average' shield would increase the life expectancy of a knight drastically and give them a potent edge in melee combat. Combine that with full-body plate armor with it's multiple layers and so-forth and there simply isn't much comparison. Knight's have edges Samurai simply don't have. It's almost like being stuck in a massive amount of wars with soldiers coming from three continents breeds large militaristic innovations or something.

The Katana DOES have a mystique to it but it's important to understand that, at the end of the day, even if they're extremely well-forged swords, they're just swords and only part of a true soldiers kit. I actually find it really annoying that people seem to have this mental image in their heads of the European Knight being little more than a violent thug who can only swing their weapons around clumsily and whose weapons and armor are basically pool noodles and paper while a Japanese Samurai wields a blade that could sever a man in two with ease and is trained since birth to be a master of swordsmanship with no rival even possible along with three other weapon types. It's like sitting down to watch a sports game and saying one team is little more than high-schoolers drafted from the math club while the other team is international champions. Even if one team is clearly better they're both practiced and trained professionals who can hold their own.

You could argue a knight is better trained than a samurai too, both started learning from masters at about the same age, just knights fought a larger range of enemies, so had to contend with varieties in styles, while samurai mainly fought themselves.

I think it is that mysticism around most the samurai that people expect they did so much more
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

See I am not the only skallagrim fan!

Yes, the joints were a weaker point, though by no means did that mean unprotected, also hitting those bits while face to face wouldnt have been easy at all
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

IceDragon77 posted...

I fucking love how America just REFUSES to acknowledge that maaaaaaybe it's just maaaaaybe time to at least TRY gun control. The dumb american counter argument is always "It doesn't work"... Yeah because what you got going on now is tooootally working, lmao. Countless other countries prove every year that gun control works.

America does have gun control, you can't freely buy a gun at your local shop and walk out in to the streets in a couple minutes, holding it in your hands. America has gun control, the issue is that it has a mental health epidemic and would rather blame every shooter individually rather than recognising there may be a link between them that needs to be solved.

Its mental health, its terrorism, its migration, its criminals.

The comon thing between them all? Easy access to guns.

Its time you stop making excuses and fix you gun problem
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Revelation34 posted...

darkknight109 posted...

So were you, so by that logic I guess that means you believe all guns should be banned?

That's kind of an unrealistic viewpoint, if you ask me. You should educate yourself a little more on why complete gun bans are simply impractical.

You're the one who was talking about regulations directly related to Babbit's argument about banning them all.

Smarkil posted...

Switzerland has similar gun laws to the US with similar rates of distribution ~24% pop with at least one gun to the US's ~30%.

Why doesn't Switzerland have a mass shooting every other week?

Pretty obvious. Switzerland has a much smaller population.

If America could prove that having guns available with reasonable restrictions was done or even attempted I wouldnt say ban them all. No offence here, you guys cannot be trusted with them, you have had more than one mass shooting in every 2 days this year. You need to ban them all because you have shown no control or even attempt to control them! Hell even when some regs were put in place the new guy in charge removed them!!!!!!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Smarkil posted...

Jen0125 posted...

Smarkil posted...

Why doesn't Switzerland have a mass shooting every other week?

probably because the happiness rating of citizens in switzerland is extremely high

So the problem then isn't guns.

Its a strikingly common fucking denominator
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Jen0125 posted...

Smarkil posted...

Why doesn't Switzerland have a mass shooting every other week?

probably because the happiness rating of citizens in switzerland is extremely high

Pretty sure you can only own a gun if you have served (so trained), it is heavily regulated and I believe you cannot keep ammo in you home?

In Switzerland
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

jhon2345 posted...

If shooter was a brown guy, it would become immigrant issues
If shooter was a black guy, it would become crime issues
If shooter was a middle eastern guy, it would become terrorism issues

Its never a gun issues in USA.
Dumb Americans vs Educated Americans

You can fight against crime, terrorism but you can't fight against dumbness.

Much like robberies aren't a balaclava issue.

Take it you mean Armed robberies......
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

@SunWuKung420 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

SunWuKung420 posted...

I don't really think you know anything about suits of armor. In order for the knight to even walk, or fight, there were weak spots at the all the joints.

No, I have only wore and faught in them....

I know this is shenti-esque but seriously, you in armor with a sword and me, naked (very sexy image there) and bare-handed, you'd lose the first and every time. You know nothing of actual combat, ancient or modern.

Not saying I am that good (really I doubt very much I am even close!). Though would you want to fight "naked and bare-fisted" in that?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

LinkPizza posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

If the police didnt have the worry that the person stopped for a normal reason, would they be as likely to jump shoot?

I'm saying the police would get gunned down.

Oh yes, less guns means more gun crime!

I mean, after adding the regulations, less people had guns. And it seems like gun crime went up, so yes...?

This was posted in another thread on the same issue. It is apt.

darkknight109 posted...

The thing I don't understand about the "guns are just tools" argument is that its proponents always balk when you suggest treating them like tools.

I mean, let's look at another tool that has been responsible for a great deal of death and mayhem: the car. Just like guns, it has completely defensible uses. Just like guns, millions of law-abiding owners use them daily. And just like guns, they can be used - intentionally or otherwise - to seriously injure or kill innocent bystanders.

So when cars started becoming widespread around the turn of the 20th century and people suddenly noticed that a lot of people were dying to them, we fucking changed things.

Laws around cars were tightened up considerably. To this day every car on the road has to be registered with the government and insured. Stupid shit that was clearly killing people, like driving while drunk, was outlawed. Safety features, like crumple zones, seat belts, and airbags, were developed and eventually legally mandated on all new cars. And in order to even operate a car in the first place, a potential driver must be of a minimum age and must pass a series of examinations in order to prove that they can safely operate the vehicle; and if they later prove that they can no longer be trusted with that responsibility, their right to operate the vehicle is restricted or removed altogether.

End result? Car deaths peaked in 1970 and have been dropping ever since, despite the fact that there are more vehicles now than ever. Deaths per vehicle-miles-travelled have been dropping almost unabated since the 1920s when the first of these regulations were implemented.

Guns, on the other hand, have been merrily sailing in the other direction with predictable results. Safety features - like limiting magazine size - are vigorously fought by the NRA, while what flimsy regulations exist have been steadily stripped away since the 70s. Make the suggestion about creating a national gun registry and watch as gun advocates recoil in horror. What few protections exist on who can own and purchase a gun have next to no enforcement and are easily circumvented and, in many areas, no proof-of-training or background checks are required and the only thing needed to buy a gun is proof of age and sufficient cash. End result? Gun deaths have remained steadily high and virtually unaltered in the last 20 years, despite the fact that the rate of gun ownership has dropped by nearly a quarter over the same time period.

If you truly believe guns are tools, treat them that way. It won't fully solve the problem, but it would certainly help.

No, America has half hearted gun regs that it doesn't enforce.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Revelation34 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Ok, keep defending mass murders, keep them armed, kill enabling them. Everyone who defends guns being easy to get for everyone, defends mass shootings. Simple as.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/928/144/c43.jpg

I have tried arguing with fact, tried science, tried logic. None work all I have is emotion. That wont work too though. Keep shooting each other, that will help the issue right?

Calling for a ban of all guns for EVERY reason is logical now?

In the past I have presented the reasons and science and that. You know the topics that are commonly posted here after shootings. It doesnt work. Keep shooting each other, someday it will work right?

I mean 28 mass shootings in what, 42 days? Doesnt show there is an issue right? Never mind all the other gun crime that happens every day there...
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

If the police didnt have the worry that the person stopped for a normal reason, would they be as likely to jump shoot?

I'm saying the police would get gunned down.

Oh yes, less guns means more gun crime!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Revelation34 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Ok, keep defending mass murders, keep them armed, kill enabling them. Everyone who defends guns being easy to get for everyone, defends mass shootings. Simple as.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/928/144/c43.jpg

I have tried arguing with fact, tried science, tried logic. None work all I have is emotion. That wont work too though. Keep shooting each other, that will help the issue right?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Revelation34 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Revelation34 posted...

Ferarri619 posted...

The irony about this superhero talk is that The Punisher is the first character that comes to mind when I think "school shooters" because he wants revenge and hates everyone. Isn't that like a really terrible character to want as a hero? >__<

He's not a hero. He's always been an anti-hero.

Babbit55 posted...

They need to be banned fully

Good luck culling overpopulated deer.

You cull deer with handguns and Ar-15s?

You said absolutely nothing about handguns or AR-15s. Also some handguns are used in hunting.

Ok, keep defending mass murders, keep them armed, kill enabling them. Everyone who defends guns being easy to get for everyone, defends mass shootings. Simple as.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Revelation34 posted...

Ferarri619 posted...

The irony about this superhero talk is that The Punisher is the first character that comes to mind when I think "school shooters" because he wants revenge and hates everyone. Isn't that like a really terrible character to want as a hero? >__<

He's not a hero. He's always been an anti-hero.

Babbit55 posted...

They need to be banned fully

Good luck culling overpopulated deer.

You cull deer with handguns and Ar-15s?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

Accept you have a fucking problem in America and it is getting worse, more guns will not fix it too.

They won't make it worse either.

Babbit55 posted...

They need to be banned fully and them removed from everyone or these shootings will keep happening

That'd just increase police homicides.

If the police didnt have the worry that the person stopped for a normal reason, would they be as likely to jump shoot?

Some may, though in time that issue would drop down too.

Zeus posted...

Babbit55 posted...

And so begins the daily guns are fine arguments. 18 school shootings this year alone.

Accept you have a fucking problem in America and it is getting worse, more guns will not fix it too. They need to be banned fully and them removed from everyone or these shootings will keep happening

If the problem was actually just guns, it would have been worse years ago back when schools had rifle clubs and gun ownership was more widespread (since nowadays it's more a matter of fewer people owning more guns). However, since adding restriction after restriction and reducing the number of legal gun owners, mass shootings have only INCREASED. If you're going to cite anything as a problem, maybe you should criticize adding regulations.

As for the "18 school shootings," that's a bullshit misleading claim which conflates domestic disputes happening on school grounds with mass shootings.

Yeah sorry 12 of them were around the school grounds, so much better right? 28 mass shootings so far this year.... But no, guns arent the problem, just the common fucking denominator
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

And so begins the daily guns are fine arguments. 18 school shootings this year alone.

Accept you have a fucking problem in America and it is getting worse, more guns will not fix it too. They need to be banned fully and them removed from everyone or these shootings will keep happening
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

SunWuKung420 posted...

I'm a real life bender bro. He's my favorite futurama character. You're leela.

Youre an actual robot?!?!?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

And so begins the daily guns are fine arguments. 18 school shootings this year alone.

Accept you have a fucking problem in America and it is getting worse, more guns will not fix it too. They need to be banned fully and them removed from everyone or these shootings will keep happening
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

SunWuKung420 posted...

Babbit55 posted...

SunWuKung420 posted...

I don't really think you know anything about suits of armor. In order for the knight to even walk, or fight, there were weak spots at the all the joints.

No, I have only wore and faught in them....

I know this is shenti-esque but seriously, you in armor with a sword and me, naked (very sexy image there) and bare-handed, you'd lose the first and every time. You know nothing of actual combat, ancient or modern.

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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Cacciato posted...

Babbit55 posted...

SunWuKung420 posted...

I don't really think you know anything about suits of armor. In order for the knight to even walk, or fight, there were weak spots at the all the joints.

No, I have only wore and faught in them....

Have fought in them though?

Yeah that too!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

SunWuKung420 posted...

I don't really think you know anything about suits of armor. In order for the knight to even walk, or fight, there were weak spots at the all the joints.

No, I have only wore and faught in them....
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Revelation34 posted...

Is inbreading like having bread baked into another loaf of bread?

Yes.

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/42395591/know-the-dangers-of-inbreading.jpg
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

So incest is bad, and will likely mean that child has issues because of in-breading, jail for it though? That seems excessive.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Lokarin posted...

The katana was designed for cutting down peasants who are fleeing... a longsword was designed for cutting down peasants with pitchforks.

Such truth!

SunWuKung420 posted...

In regards to sword combat verses armored foes, one had to be proficient in striking at the seams and unprotected sections.

Chainmail made lunging and piercing weapons/strikes more needed.

Not really true on the striking seams and unprotected sections, plate armour had no "unprotected sections" really, even then the joints had plates covering them and chain would often be patched onto the padding beneath to add extra protection (Double stacking Chain and plate was pointless and would have been really tiring too!)

When chain armour was the main go to, so to were big shields, as armour got better, shields got smaller till then went in-favour of bigger weapons.

By comparison, because the Japanese mainly in fought instead of conquering like the Europeans, they did not change as much over time, and that is why it too almost 200 years for firearms to really take off there
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

lihlih posted...

That video is bad, on so many levels. Anyone with even some knowledge of arms an armour and technique will tell you...

I mean stage armour is the same as real armour right? And how he swings the swords into a bloody ice block!

Also a modern steel forge katana is not the same as it was originally!

I think that video is one of the most debunked videos on YouTube!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

mayatola posted...

First of all, curved is much better for cutting. You have a larger surface area for the edge of the blade. There's a reason why cavalry swords were always curved. They didn't have to swing so much as simply hold their sword out as the curved edges would draw across flesh and slice through, whereas a long sword would simply get stuck into whatever it hit. So that bullshit about technique or whatever is just that. Curved swords effectively cut better than straight edges.

Now, I'm not a big fan of the Japanese, but military historians widely regard both the gladius and the katana as the two best developed swords in the world. They each excelled in their respective roles: the gladius as a short, thrusting weapon used in close combat in conjunction with the scutum (the roman shields that basically covered the entire left side of the soldier); and the katana as a two-handed weapon cutting weapon (but yes, it can also thrust, and I did practice Shinkendo for around 2 1/2 years -- I even got to spar with Toshishiro Obata for a couple minutes when he visited our dojo). The longsword is a long, straight, double-edged blade. It didn't cut as well as the katana, and as far as thrusting, yes it was long, but that's what made it unwieldy. For thrusting, you only needed to penetrate three inches into your opponent's midsection or torso. The gladius did that very well while allowing you to fully control your shield (which was the real workhorse). Also, because it's short, it's very easy to retract the blade after you hit your opponent for another thrust (likely at another opponent). In a crowded melee, you'll probably have to drop your longsword and draw your short sword or dagger after you pierce your opponent. As for the katana, you just cut through your opponent and your blade was free to strike at another. Of course, the katana wasn't designed to cut through opponents wearing full plate, so I couldn't really argue about it's effectiveness against a knight, but it definitely cut through conscripted soldiers with ease.

As for knight versus samurai, I don't care as it's just Deadliest Warrior crap. You can pretend to think you know who will win, but you really don't. Yeah, shields and shield walls were a huge part of western warfare, and in the east, samurai believed that only cowards hid behind shields and were ready to die for their lords in combat. Now, maybe the samurai were a bit naive about the effectiveness of hoplite shields or scutums, but their fanaticism in combat isn't some easily measured attribute. And anyway, samurai were trained in the use of many weapons (spears, bow, short swords, and hand-to-hand combat). Restricting a samurai to a katana, or even a knight with just a sword and shield for that matter, is like restricting LeBron to lay ups and Curry to dunks. Both fighters were highly trained in many different weapons and could use them effectively in the appropriate situations.

Anyway, I'm sorry but longswords versus katana doesn't seem like even a fair comparison. Because both weapons are wielded with two hands? A katana wielder could easily close in on a longsword and disarm the wielder due to the comparatively unwieldy nature of the weapon (when compared to the katana). The stance of the wielder, and the curved blade, which allows you to deflect more easily would make quick work of a longsword. Now if you want to throw a shield into the mix, you might as well ditch the sword altogether and grip the shield with two hands. A scutum versus a katana, now that'd be really interesting.

I never got where this unweildly crap comes from. Long swords are not cumbersome, they are agile and half swording was a very effective thing in closer range. Closing in and disarming a skilled sword fighter is not gonna happen easily....
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

likehelly posted...

Babbit55 posted...

I met my wife about 3 months after her wife died

uh

Yeah, typo, meant mum
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

darkknight109 posted...

Mostly it was the stuff I've already gone through - stuff like a tsuba not being a true cross-guard, or the particulars of how the blade operates.

Honestly, having done kendo myself, one of my frustrations with the art in its modern incarnation is it spends a lot of time with shinai and very little with actual blades. Hence my recommendation to add iaido into your training if you're into swords - iaido focuses a lot more on using the sword itself rather than a stand-in. Of course, iaido has its own drawbacks, namely that most schools spend almost no time on two-person exercises or target practice - you really do need both arts to fully understand how a katana operates.

I never said the Tsuba wasn't a "True cross guard" just that a cross guard (and especially a baskett hilt) is better. I will concide I have less experiance using a Katana than a Longsword though. I like sparing too much though to look at something that is pure tequique =P

darkknight109 posted...

As a metallurgist, I can tell you that even shitty ore can be made into a decent final product (and vice versa). Don't be so quick to write off katanas as "softer and easier to break", because in many cases that was not the case (Japanese ore may have been awful compared to its European equivalents, but their smithing techniques were leagues ahead).

I know, hence why Japanese smiths were geniuses!!! Though Masterwork shitty steel is still not as good as Avarage good steel, as they say, shit in, shit out. Now I know they were not likely to just snap and break for no reason (or just dull like someone though longswords do....), Just that incomparason a longsword being made of spring steel is less likely to break or have the same issues that a blade made from a lower quality steel may.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

darkknight109 posted...

Disagree. My own personal experience along with consensus from some of the other sword-nuts I hang around with is that the katana is noticeably faster for slashing. Admittedly the longsword tends to have an advantage on thrusts, although the technique behind thrusting with a longsword and performing an equivalent tsuki with a katana is different.

No offence here, have you trained with a longsword at all? They are swung in very different ways, the Longsword uses its momentum more in the swing, at least more than a Katana does, swinging them the same way, a katana will feel faster, that swung properly, the longsword is faster.

But yes, they are used in very dfferent ways, even if they are often compared (I would say a more acurate sword to compare would be a Falchion personaly)

darkknight109 posted...

Strange, because we talk about that in iai all the time and it absolutely is a real thing. It's not really a matter of "wanted" or "not wanted", it's just a reality of the sword.

Ever held a shinken (live blade)? When you place it against another blade (not cross-wise, but parallel, the same way you would hold it if you were fighting someone), they really do bite into one another; two sharp katana simply don't slide against one another the way most European swords do. It almost feels like the blade is slightly magnetic (the actual reason has to do with the sharpness and the angle of the cutting edge, but the sensation is similar).

I have, not used them in a fight (obviously!), though every bit of defence I have been taught about Katana work as been deflection and avoidence because the blades clashing is not a good thing (not that the edged parts of long swords are either to be fair!)

darkknight109 posted...

Ever tried to hit someone on a joint with a big heavy weapon? It typically doesn't go well. Joints are attached to limbs, which are the most mobile parts of your body (AKA the hardest things to hit, particularly with any accuracy). If you're going to go for a hit with the heavy end of the weapon, aim for the centre of mass - if you hit them hard enough, you stand a decent chance of killing them (armour or no) and even if you don't, you can knock them off balance.

They are not as heavy as you might think, they are pretty top heavy though! Saying that, it is easier to smash a leg with a vague hammer blow than a precice pierce with the point, specially while the other person does not what that to happen!

Fightning in armour is a funny thing, you kind of ignore blows that you know would not be too threatening, like ignoring a leg swing in favour of slapping your mate across the head! (I have been hit with a "combat safe" flail, it hurt like hell though armour!!! (Cricket ball on a chain)

darkknight109 posted...

Sure it could. Youtube is loaded with videos of people shooting holes in plate mail. Here's the first one I came up with:

No disagreements on arrows here, as I said, ask the French (agincourt was won by the bow)
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

I meant wifes mum not wife doh!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

I dont get this breaking up because of family issues.... if someone cares for you and want to be together could they not bet a support rock.... I met my wife about 3 months after her wife died and her dad got lung cancer about 6 months after we started dating. I was there for her when she needed me and always will be, just like she is for me, I mean thats the whole point of a relationship isnt it? Or am I missing something?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

As for Firearms, they started use in European armies in the 1300's (1364) so by the late 1500's Knights would of been a dying bread in favour of the much more effective gun.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

darkknight109 posted...

Cross-Guard: The katana's tsuba (what you're referring to as a cross-guard) is actually not a cross-guard at all - it's basically a design feature to keep the wielder's hand from inadvertently sliding up onto the blade (and not all historical katana had them). Katana swing much faster than longswords - a significant point in their favour, by the way - so catching with a crossguard is impractical. Not to mention, in a clash katana tend to "bite" into one another due to the way the blade is designed, so a cut that would slide all the way down to the hilt would be fairly rare.

Having trained and swung both I disagee on the "swing much faster" opinion, a proper longsword swing is faster, especially the tip, because of momentum (again physics). Sword fighting has 2 rules, Don't get hit, hit them. In that order. The cross guard was great at stopping attacks hitting the hands, though they were used you A LOT more, the murder stroke being a big one. Anyone who teaches Katana would cringe about you talking about Katanas biting one another as them hitting like that is not wanted, and is not beneficial in any way.

darkknight109 posted...

No knight or samurai that had a brain would ever willingly hit something hard. It happens sometimes, but the popular image of knights banging their swords off each other is pure Hollywood - about the only thing you'd get from doing that is a blunt blade.

Agreed, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

The standard equipment of the samurai included guns from the 1500s onwards, which kind of kicks the ass of anything the knights could bring to bear.

And no, knights did not typically use longswords against heavy armour like plate mail (see above point about blunt blades). Standard weapons to deal with armour involved things like warhammers (which virtually every fictional representation depicts incorrectly - you hit with the pick on the "back" of the hammer, with the large "front" being used to provide weight to drive that pick into the armour), arrows (which, if properly designed, could easily punch through full-plate) or heavy weapons that could knock a knight over, at which point they could be easily dispatched by a knife in their armour joints.

You've claimed a background in kendo, TC, but unless your school was pretty lacklustre or simply focused on shinai training rather than working much with the actual blades themselves, I'm actually surprised you don't know more about the katana. A lot of what you posted was misinformed at best, completely wrong at worst. As a suggestion, you may want to supplement your kendo training with some iai, as I find you don't get a full appreciation for what's involved in using a katana without both.

Late 1500's (1543)

Sorta right on the Warhammer, though it was not for weight, it was for crushing joints, much easier to kill with the pick if they cannot move there legs or arms! Also if they were on there arse, it would not be going in close for a knife, it would be a murder stroke, or a warhammer strike. Yes, some arrows could pierce plate, though not "easily" Just ask the French, they designed armour to deflect arrows, but yeah. the Longbows won Agincourt

I have done longsword for a lot longer than Kendo (8 yrs vs 3) and he didn't go much into the blades themselves, more the technique and the like, though I am a sword enthusiast and I have read up about Katana, please point out my misinformation though. You agree the mats were crap, and better at cutting with softer, easy to break blades. Where about I misinformed?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

darkknight109 posted...

The inverse of this is also true; because Western smiths had higher quality steel, there were many garbage smiths around who could get away with shitty forging because the material allowed them to. Contrast with Japan where one of the cardinal rules of warfare at the time was that when you were invading an enemy city, swordsmiths and their families were always, always to be left unharmed, because they were far more valuable as new employees rather than corpses.

You know you just reworded my opening about Japanese smiths being likely the best right?

darkknight109 posted...

This completely ignores that the design and balance of katana vs. longswords are completely different, and that's going to have a far larger effect on weight.

Kinda, though to ensure the Katana had a sharp edge it needed the thick back meaning the hard steel back made it heavier, the Longsword being made of better steel could be stronger, while being lighter.

darkknight109 posted...

So is a katana (derp). As for which one is longer, that again depends on the design. Today all katana have a relatively uniform length, with variances based on the height of the wielder, but this was not the case historically. In their early incarnations, it was quite common to see Sephiroth-esque katana that were so large they could not be effectively wielded on foot (for a period of time, samurai mostly fought on horseback, and their sword design of the time reflected that).

Firstly, as I have mentioned (twice now) I mentioned that, not because the Katana is a 1 handed blade (It wasn't) but because there is a very common misconeption that the longsword was (It wasn't). The Sephiroph-esque Katana.... You mean the No-Dachi.... That was slightly longer than your avarage long sword.... One the Length Sephiroph used would be insanly unweildly.

darkknight109 posted...

Lunge: Highly debatable. Longswords really aren't designed for thrusting - the length makes them unwieldy and difficult to aim properly; they, like most long-bladed weapons, are primarily designed with slashing in mind. On the other hand, katana are actually deceptively good at lunging attacks. A tsuki (thrust) with a katana doesn't have the same reach as a longsword, but thanks to the blade's curvature a thrust doesn't open up a hole so much as it carves a very large, very deep gash in an opponent (seriously, you can get a ten-inch cut by moving the sword just a few inches forward).

Curved just cannot get the same force behind a lunge that straight blade can (This is physics). Half handed thrusting with a longsword though was very effective and a very comon teqnique to get though armour, but yes the main attacks at more slashing in style of a longsword.

http://aif.md/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/34-%D0%94%D1%83%D1%8D%D0%BB%D1%8C.jpeg

As was pomel and cross guard stikes (Murder strokes)

darkknight109 posted...

Cross-Guard: The katana's tsuba (what you're referring to as a cross-guard) is actually not a cross-guard at all - it's basically a design feature to keep the wielder's hand from inadvertently sliding up onto the blade (and not all historical katana had them). Katana swing much faster than longswords - a significant point in their favour, by the way - so catching with a crossguard is impractical. Not to mention, in a clash katana tend to "bite" into one another due to the way the blade is designed, so a cut that would slide all the way down to the hilt would be fairly rare.

Having trained and swung both I disagee on the "swing much faster" opinion, a proper longsword swing is faster, especially the tip, because of momentum (again physics)
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

https://goo.gl/SZDCjL

Lances were not all big fuck off things

Ah yes all those battles where everyone wrestle instead of stabbing each other.....

Chipping is not good for blocking and gave you 0 extra control. Nor is it good for your blade!

As someone who has fought using historical combat manuals, I will tell you for sure, you dont use a long sword like a bat! Have you ever been in a sword fight?
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

If you need 1 specific day to tell your partner you love them, you are doing it wrong.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

RCtheWSBC posted...

a_doyle_42 posted...

Of course you can cry after a month of dating, I cried after only 80-90 minutes of watching Toy Story 3!

Hope things pick up for you soon!

That movie hit me in the feels as well ;_;

The opening of up didn't make me cry. It was my wife chopping onions or something in my face. Honest!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Fierce_Mudcrap posted...

I love how this board never changes.

>Female Makes a post
>New and old Virgos whiteknight the topic
>500

Love it, never change PotD

I was going to respond to a shit post (ended up making a whole new topic instead!) but felt bad because of what happened!

Also, Do you mean Virgos as the star sign or something else? Because pretty sure someone being a virgin is not an insult. It certainly shouldn't be used as one.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Krazy_Kirby posted...

a katana is a 2handed weapon also (when used correctly)

Noone is saying it isn't, I was more pointing out that the Longsword is often confused with the single handed blade the Arming sword. A longsword was a 2 handed blade too.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

PK_Spam posted...

Its easy to ironically like something. Like I specifically watch shit like Sword Art Online because of how bad it is. I watch it, and derive a sick sense of enjoyment out of it, but not because I genuinely like it. I just love to see how bad the writing gets.

Same with Fairy Tail and The Walking Dead.

Ok, point proved.
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Curved goes better with a natural swing but the curve doesn't make it cut better.

https://www.keithfarrell.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/The-Shape-of-Sword-Blades.pdf

We may say that the effect of the curve in this Indian tulwar, as
compared with a straight blade, is, that it cuts as though it were four times as broad
and only one-fourth the thickness. I have selected the tulwar as an illustration,
because we have all heard of the extraordinary effects produced by the natives of
India in cutting with this weapon. Men inferior in stature and bodily strength to our
own countrymen can use this weapon so as to produce effects which strike us with
astonishment:heads taken offboth hands severed at the wristarm and shoulder
cut throughlegs taken off at one blow. Such are the sword-cuts of [414] which our
soldiers had too fearful experience during the Sikh war and later campaigns in India

Curved is better at cutting. Period.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

A rapier is a dueling weapon and, like the katana, is for unarmoured opponents. Weight is a major component of penetration, it help maintain momentum which means better travel through plate. You like European weaponry so you must remember the not at all flimsy lance over the common spear.

The katana was a battlefield weapon as much as the longsword, also the Lance and spear were designed very differently yet both for lunging attacks, the Lance however should not be confused with a much wider and broader, jousting lance, this was not designed to kill!. A lance used in combat looked much more like a spear or pike, than a jousting lance that you seeming think was used on the battlefield.

Kyuubi4269 posted...

Folding doesn't make steel more prone to denting. Remember this, European swords were made with two edges because they got blunt in combat, the steel was insufficient to maintain an edge long.

No the folding made it very thin and sharp, it also meant it was very prone to chipping and nicking while being used and blunted much faster than a broader edge.
Kyuubi4269 posted...

No, some longswords weren't sharpened near the hilt for handling, more specifically for a lunge holding it like a spear. The Zweihander, a greatsword, was made with a blunt section after the guard specifically for handling like a spear because its length and weight lent itself to this purpose.

I literally say about half blading (made for a much better lunge as i said!) the side effect was that you could get that flat edge in the way of a blade and A - Have more control of the opposing blade as you have the leverage and B - prevent the blade getting nicked and chipped from contact.



Not the most accurate or scientific video, but see the differences from a modern day, forged katana, and an edged hunk of steel!
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.

PK_Spam posted...

You mentioned he was in a band. What genre?

I swear, if you tell me that he sings that kind of indie rock where they whisper half their words, Im gonna die laughing. Mostly because I still dont believe people unironically like that genre

Haw can you "Ironically" or "Unironically" like something. You either like it or you don't.....
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GT:- Babbit55
PC - i5 4670k, 16g ram, RX 480, 2tb hybrid drive.