Lurker > wallmasterz

Isquen really popped up to vote me immediately after I voted plum then disappeared again huh

Lopen posted...

...

Sorry if I shouldnt have mentioned that, not sure what youre getting at here

Kirby321 posted...

Wallz, do you have nothing to say about the 9 Vanillas that have claimed? On top of the fact that Ulti flipped roleblocker and Lopen claimed his scan was stolen? A dearth of power would be quite the handicap for scum.

It's a red flag that you're completely ignoring the elephant in the room here.

Im bumping up against a deadline I probably wont meet because Im prioritizing this game, so no Im not commenting on every little thing. To be honest what stands out to me the most about the elephant in the room is how fixated you seem to be on it. Every time theres a new vanilla claim you go I cant believe it! And Im starting to wonder if youre just one of a fake vanilla claim(s) who feel insecure about claiming vanilla but lying and therefore that nervous energy is turning into needing to comment every time.

Yeah Corrik, you got it in post #381. Im sure this game has a doctor and ultimately its better we have some ambiguity who the doctor is, so that makes voting plum less appealing. But assuming one of you are scum, then scum already knows who the doctor is anyway. I cant help but notice I finally drop my vote on plum after mentioning I likely would for hours and suddenly people are voting for me including Isquen who had never expressed being suspicious of me to my knowledge.

Im starting to wonder if plum is actually town. I thought Corrik was town for sure but I am baffled by Corrik insisting plum is lying yet refusing to vote plum. And plum being fixated on me when Corrik says plum is lying. But I feel confident the two doctor/not doctor wink wink claims arent scum together. Weird situation all around

Lopen posted...

I'm going to guess Wallz is actually miller and wanted to claim vanilla with that flavor. I won't actually be scanning him ever so it's irrelevant

No, Im actually vanilla

Peace___Frog posted...

I never said anything about smiting people, and I don't remember anyone else saying anything like that.

Wallz and I agreed that if Ulti flipped scum, then there was probably funny business with the anti town faction(s) in some capacity.

Im not accusing you peaf but that wasnt me. At one point I quoted the funny business post and asked you to elaborate on what you thought it could mean

I am Lee Chaolan, TOWN Vanilla

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/7/6/4/AARMM-AAEWQ0.jpg

Corrik7 posted...

Everyone in the game knows isquen is town. How many times must I say this.

>_____>

Its hard for me to see anything other than plum and Isquen being scum together right now

Plum:

5.004: Floats the idea of scum Lopen

5.019: says its impossible no one visited Lea and Isquen made it up

5.039: Isquen town, Lopen probably town

5.046: How is this relevant to anything?

Him (Lopen) being cop doesnt suddenly make his opinions any less ridiculous

5.122: hb points out how could Isquen be so sure plum was protection

preceded and followed by Isquen never really entertaining the idea of plum not being protection.

I mean ffs, when someone tells you its impossible someone is lying in this game and its within the realm of possibility

##Vote: Plum

masterplum posted...

In order for me to be scum you have to assume I am a scum scanner who scanned lea

I WOULD LITERALLY NEVER DO THIS

plum seems calm

Its not about the quality of the opinion - I agree being cop doesnt make your opinion good. But its factually wrong to say everyone thinks Isquen is town. I can believe Isquens claim and acknowledge Lopen doesnt.

Why are you bothered by this

Kirby321 posted...

The only thing throwing me off here is Corrik saying "Everyone knows Isquen is town" near the end there.

Like, is Corrik just trolling everyone and started shit for no reason or something

You and Corrik are both ignoring the fact uncountered cop claim Lopen has his vote on Isquen

If I wanted Lea to claim her role I wouldve just asked directly. Theres no reason for her to give any additional info.

The questions I do have are trying to understand what Lopen was getting at with his whole charade of making scum think he scanned Lea when he also said he thinks scum stole his n1 action, and better understanding why Isquen claimed out of the blue.

Why do you think an uncountered watcher claim is definitely town (less common role) and an uncountered cop claim (super common role) is only probably town?

Im on mobile so forgive me for not having the exact verbiage and all, but Lea only claimed flavor. I know nothing about tekken but it was a name similar to hers (Leilei maybe?).

Peaf, I dont know Leas role but it would make some things a hell of a lot more simple if we did.

My point was twofold: to question plum saying believing claims tends to be a scum tell, and to get his genuine opinions. Im trying to decide who to vote for.

masterplum posted...

Actually taking claims seriously is a scum tell in general.

So plum what do you think of the claims by Lea, Isquen and Lopen

I think Isquen and Lea are both town, right now the biggest question mark around Isquen imo is why he claimed when there was no real need. Everyone was asking why?! and I think thats what we should still be asking literally. Granted I vaguely remember someone saying town power Isquen claiming unprompted is not unprecedented.

I dont know what to make of Corrik besides frustrating.

htaeD posted...

Hell if I even accept Corriks post for a second (and I dont know why I even bother)
Then it can only logically follow that its true that he visited Lopen, that its false that he stole the result and that the scan on red could be going either way.

That makes sense, yeah.

I cant get over the irony of Corrik going on about Isquen being anti-town and then acting how hes acted ever since.

its completely up for debate if Corrik is telling the truth, but dont act like Im an idiot for thinking he was serious about at least part of his messages. I interpreted the crying laughing emojis as Corrik finding/pretending to find it was funny that theyre the one who stole Lopens scan result after all the back and forth.

I dont really get your attitude towards me this game plum, I guess it can be attributed to omgus since I expressed thinking youre a good lynch but there are four votes on you and none of them are me.

Pay attention to the context. Corrik says theyll give death info. Death asks if Corrik went to visit Lea. Corrik then says I went to Lopen. I stole his scan. It was scum.

Next post, Corrik is playing games but says one part is true, one part is false, one part could go either way. I dont think Corrik was joking about offering to give Death info and I dont think Corrik was joking about the true/false/? game, annoying though the cryptic delivery of info may be.

I didnt think Corrik was joking at all, but maybe it went over my head. Ill re-read later

Isquen, why did you choose to claim unprompted when neither you or Lea were seemingly in any great danger of being lynched? I believe in your post you said if it helps helps what, exactly?

I came into today thinking Id likely vote Plum, not for his weak defense of Ulti but rather the combo of downplaying that defense and simultaneously scum hunting among everyone else who weakly defended Ulti. Mzero has done a nice job documenting this.

I still think lynching Plum is a solid option but this business overnight is an absolute mess and trying to untangle it deserves some prioritization.

Question, do we know how it generally works when an action is stolen? Lopens uncountered cop claim makes him look the most town of all parties involved but I dont follow Lopen saying hes convinced scum stole the result of his action but they would also believe his fake breadcrumbing of scanning Lea. If Lopen is telling the truth and hes right scum has the stealing ability, wouldnt they see he scanned red? Maybe I misunderstood something here.

Ironically, Corrik claims to be town who stole Lopens scan result on red. So while Im not sold on Isquen being scum, suddenly the randomness of Isquen claiming entirely unprompted and specifying he watched Lea does have an explanation, if town Corrik got the stolen result and therefore scum bought Lopens ploy to get in front of a scan on Lea?

Corrik seems the scummiest of all at a glance and it would be a helpful time for them to stop playing games. From his annoying one part is true post I infer he stole Lopens result and red is town.

I have to get to work but Im going to look back through it all when I can.

Yeah, I agree and said as much in post 4.292.

masterplum posted...

Er rather, you are considering the opposite is a possibility. That Isquen just decided to straight up claim watcher unprovoked as scum

I am just thinking out loud because Im weighing whats in it for Corrik and I dont think its a great play if hes scum. Obviously town and scum alike make less than great plays all the time, no disrespect intended to Corrik if hes scum. But yeah I lean Isquen is town. Thing is on Star Trek I hopped aboard a few obvious scum lynches and then they flipped town, so that game taught me to stop and think things through a bit more carefully even when it seems like a no brainer. And in Star Trek there was a cop and a lazy tracker, so could scum Isquen roll the dice banking on not getting counterclaimed by a watcher specifically? Its unlikely imo but not impossible.

The more I think about Isquen/Corrik the less Im sure what to make of it. At first I thought Isquen was definitely telling the truth and Corrik seemed scummy. Now I still think how Corrik approached it feels scummy but Im asking myself why Corrik would do this in the first place if hes scum and knows Isquen isnt.

If Isquen gets lynched and flips town, Corrik is a goner. Assuming the game started with 4-5 scum (Star Trek was 13 v 4 if memory serves), they are already down 10-4 or even 11-3 after ultis lynch. I guess taking out town watcher after they lose their roleblocker is valuable, but then scum is looking at 9-3 or 10-2. Not to mention if Corrik is lying and gets lynched which could definitely happen, thats even less favorable. None of this is to say Corrik is definitely town but its food for thought.

Ive never been in a game with a watcher before but I googled it and it says watchers see who visits their target. Which means Isquen would see everyone who visited Lea, right? So for Isquen to say someone visited who Isquen feels is town (instead of multiple people) suggests probably either Isquen or Corrik is lying? I dunno

masterplum posted...

Yes

Yes it was on purpose

Plum are you asking if scum sacrificed one of their own on purpose (opposed to on accident)

Leafeon13N posted...

Do we care about the breadcrumb? There is not really any scum equity to his claim. I am willing to just take it at face value and not care much beyond that.

I agree on the breadcrumb not mattering to me as its something someone might do as either alignment in advance of claiming/fake claiming, but I dont think we should take anything in this game at face value.

Lea could you reply to my question in 4.167 when you get a chance?

Leafeon13N posted...

Corriks town/scum list is pretty trash.

I dont know, he classified me as meh which is the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day

Telling us someone visited Lea is good enough information for Isquen to provide right now imo. I could maybe see things your way Corrik if someone had claimed town vig on the Sbell or Ben flip but that didnt happen. It all likelihood it was the doc who visited Lea

Two people die and someone visits Lea and Lea did not die and you think the person who visited Lea is scum? Uhhh

Doesnt it make way more sense the doctor went to Lea and now youre threatening Isquen to divulge who it is

I buy Isquens claim. Between this and death saying ultis fakeclaim like a foregone conclusion before the flip, feeling less good about death now.

masterplum posted...

Does scum lea do this without having any idea ulti what ulti is claiming? (Because it's a pretty ehhh claim)

I genuinely dont mean this condescendingly whatsoever but I dont follow this at all

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I thought ulti was the best play for the d1 lynch, both in terms of probability of being scum and the potential for valuable information from his flip. His lynch train left the station relatively early and was never really in any danger of derailing, so I didnt feel any urgency to cast my vote. By that same token, no one really earned my vote away from Ulti.

Lea, you asked me this (what I just responded to) less than 5 minutes after my post 4.126 where I quoted and asked questions of peaf. What do you think of peaf including the fact he thinks youre super town after ultis flip? Although he did clarify Lopen is especially super town compared to you being regular super town.

Peace___Frog posted...

I'm being a little dramatic about it, but basically:
Corrik could be scum but his what, one post defense? was weak and he didn't really put his body into it. I'm hesitant to link them just for that.

The igcd comment I can kind of understand and maybe I'm going too hard into wifom territory, but i cannot see a scum igcd partnering with him that explicitly and early into the day.

I'll be honest, it didn't occur to me that you thought sbell might have been a vig kill. I thought sbell looked super town after the flip (as do lea and especially lopen). Is that not reason enough for scum to kill sbell? I don't understand why you IMMEDIATELY assumed that it was Ben who was the normal scum kill.

I agree with you peaf that Im not sold on Corrik or IGCD being scum. I think its kinda wild youre calling both Lea and Lopen super town based on ultis flip considering you said you think there might be funny business in the set up. Feels like an inconsistency on your part to me. Of all the shit ulti haphazardly threw at the wall to see what would stick, the Lea thing still makes no sense to me even if Lea is town.

One plausible but not definite explanation of there being two night kills n1, and those two players particularly, is a town vig. If scum did have an extra kill I think theyd save it for who they suspected as power and not rush to use it. Town vig loves to prematurely blow their load from the little Ive seen. MAD certainly upped the sample size lol. Ctes did this during Star Trek and then claimed town vig a good bit after the fact and I couldnt get past thinking he was scum.

Peaf since you said you think there may be funny business in the set up, what do you think that could look like?

Another weird thing is that plum shifted his focus from his fellow ulti defenders (lol) to Lopen shortly after Lopen started dredging up Ulti and Lea weirdness again. I have not played enough games with you all to make a good assessment based on past play and I think its probably coincidence but its worth noting if either Lea or plum flip scum.

A few things stand out from this new thread so far. The three votes on Kirby in the first 10 posts for one, but unlike Lopen in post #47 I dont feel strongly about Isquen or peaf being scum right now, and Im on the fence with Lea. If anything it makes me wonder if I missed something on Kirby. I remember Ben voicing he was pretty convinced Kirby is scum, so the timing of Ben being killed certainly raises an eyebrow.

Another thing which stands out is the irony of plum pointing at IGCD and Corrik after ultis flip when he was just as guilty of defending ulti and did so numerous times. I thought plum was scum yesterday and nothing has happened to change my mind.

Lastly, in addressing Lea/Ulti, Lopen feels town to me, even though Im still unsure what to make of the whole situation. Ulti was scum and lied about his flavor saying he was ctes main. Points for Lea. But its really weird how ulti brought it up out of nowhere and Lea had a slightly different response from her early post. Initially she said ctes main and yet when ulti brought this up towards end of day she said one of ctes mains. Whats the probability of ulti doing that out of the freakin blue and Lea coincidentally having said something she needed to revise? Its a weird situation and Im gonna pause thinking about it for now until my sleep deprived brain gets coffee in the morning

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


At one point today Corrik posted twice in 15 minutes and I wish I had the good timing to say please Corrik, youll flood the thread

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Lea, I do slightly lean town on you. But you purposefully downplay how good you are at mafia and I think the best approach with you is a healthy fear, lol

i thought dst (deaths scum time) started last weekend but apparently I was off by a week

I will be checking in as much as possible between now and deadline, but I may be a bit slow responding.

##Vote: Ulti

Plum, out of curiosity, if you had to vote for someone who does not meet your d1 criteria (voted for you or cast suspicion not in good faith from your perspective) who would you vote for? Assuming no lynch wasnt an option and you had to vote? I know you feel strongly about the philosophy you shared earlier but Im still interested in hearing thoughts from you. Sorry if you already stated or alluded to this, I could probably benefit from a re-read that just isnt going to happen before eod due to time constraints.

I thought C was a passing grade but apparently Lea wants me lynched. If you want people to talk about me Im surprised you didnt ask Peaf sooner lol

Peaf I lean town on based on the tone of his posts and conviction behind his vote, wrong though it may be. It feels genuine and I also appreciate his respect for me as a player of the game. His suspicion of me is at least partially fueled by my poor job of articulating thoughts on Ulti and my own sarcasm which went over his head, but Ive said my peace (no pun intended).

As for the recent Ulti and Lea stuff, I still think Ulti is scum but how Lea responded came across a little suspicious to me as well. I dont know Lea well yet but Id like to think town Lea would brush it off with more humor at ultis expense. She was very serious. I dont remember who got interested in the whole sbell all 3 scum comment but I am interested to go back and see if those same people chimed in here.

Lopen I think is town but while its nice for someone to straight up townclear me I think thats unearned at this point.

Ok but it sounds a lot like you are assessing peoples d1 actions and the hypothetical motivations behind them though

Not trying to be rude but this is different because reasons?