Lurker > wallmasterz

I mean yeah Ive considered scum drunk sultan but he still moves and that seems like a handicapped role as scum, right?

Ctes said he hasnt used roleblock right and thats supposedly the last weapon in his Jack tool belt? Vig shot, redirect and roleblock, yeah?

One thing I still cant get past with Sultan and jc is how perfectly they seem made for each other as opposite alignments. Either sultan is lying scum or town drunk and a decoy for scum. It doesnt really have good implications for jc but Im not sure this meta piece is alone is a good reason for lynching jc.

EDumey posted...

Maaan, you keep tripping red flags for me, and it's so hard for me to honestly evaluate. I hope you can appreciate that I'm actually not just tunneling you on every inconsistency and minor thing I can find, because I think Town makes mistakes and changes reads all the time as more info is brought to light. But completely flipping from Ctes/JC might be telling the truth, and then including Ben (who was number 2 town right below yourself before) in your potential scum team just seems so inconsistent that my brain demands a reason for it.

The charitable part of me wants to say you're just a new player and not confident in your reads, and that's totally understandable. The scum hunter in me wants to say "I called out Wallz for defending Ben when both of them are on my PoE list, and now suddenly Wallz is putting Ben back in the line of fire."

Im confident in approximately none of my reads. Lol. At this point the foundation Im working from is ulti is town doc and if he got lucky af claiming doc as scum then gg scum. Sultan I also think is town. BCT/Ben I think I bought a little too much into the narrative this is just BCT and considering his literal last second vote on Chris I changed my mind a bit. I also think BCTs behavior could be seen as hamming it up a little bit if he was coached by Chris to imitate his overly defensive self as much as possible. So yes I changed my mind. Its a good thing to do, ask your boy Han. If this be a red flag to Dumey and the crew, so be it.

EDumey posted...

Thank you Wallz. That at least clarifies for me that it came from the game and not outside of it. I will accept the misattribution.

With this context now, I would still like you to answer my original question of what is your proposed scum team if you had to pick a three man team? I can understand being delayed because of work stuff, I ask people to be patient with me during work hours all the time, but when you can, thank you.

Tough question I honestly dont have a confident answer to. Logistically, based on how the game is set up, I think ctes and jc being scum makes the most sense. Otherwise the perceived imbalance of power is really puzzling. Maybe they are scum and just halfway talked me out of it, but yesterday (irl) I found myself deeply considering ctes is telling the truth, which makes me think scum is three of the following: Han/Lea/Dumey/Ben. I hope youll forgive me not being able to present 3 with a neat little bow but this post represents as far as Ive come with an answer to your question.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Ulti being Scum would require no-killing at least once, which is not smart at all in a game where Scum's down from D1 lynch.

Dont forget it requires there being no doctor in this game

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Yeah, it's too bad I asked about flavor, which made me push down suspicions that Ulti could be lying given how perfectly his flavor fit his role.

Well thats kind of my point. I dont understand being suspicious of Ulti at all after n3 even without knowing his flavor.

Dumey Id like to offer a sincere apology - it wasnt you, it was jc. 9.123.

Chaeix posted...

Wallz.

I am doing a long hard think about this because I agree with a lot of ctes' criticisms of wallz. He's spent the last 2 days undermining power claims instead of assessing the vanilla situation, which quite frankly I think is more pressing. He also hasn't done a good job of explaining why scum would kill a claimed vanilla and then claim the kill as a vig without knowing whether town had extra killing powers. I think ctes is ballsy but not that ballsy.

EDumey posted...

Does no one else notice Wallz trucking along like I don't exist? I'm used to this neglect from Ulti, but not our star new player. T_T

You trying to pocket me Dumey? Sorry for ignoring you I realize you asked me some outstanding questions. Couldve sworn you posted something about me looking for scum in claimed town power but Im on mobile and prioritizing things given 8.5 hours left

HanOfTheNekos posted...

You realize I had two bad votes on me, right?

I think how bad they were is still debatable, but assuming they were wrong, I dont see what ultis flavor has to do with anything.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

I have a bad attitude when people mistakenly accuse me. You have direct evidence of that on D1.

I definitely acknowledge the possibility of having a bad attitude and not being scum. I struggle with understanding why you wanted to know ultis flavor after the night which essentially confirmed him as town.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


No I dont. Well, not in the vacuum of a single game (there could be some benefit based on perceived scumtells etc. but that gets into wifom territory I guess).

i think if Han is scum, he was pissed no town died and frustration got the better of him so he fired off a post he may now regret with no strategic benefit.

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Do you think you have a good point here? Because you really, really don't.

I think merely pointing out you having a bad attitude after no townies die overnight (whether correlation equals causation or not) and then your first course of action is asking the most confirmed town person in the game their flavor is perfectly valid, yes.

Sorry for not sulking around and having a bad attitude after no townies died. You caught me Han. The doctor? Like Dr. Who?

damn, unparalleled scum hunting to start the day

So then what was your motive in asking ulti to claim flavor? You were suspicious of the uncountered doctor claim after almost certainly one, if not two nights of scums NK being blocked?

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Wall, trying to read something out of nothing is not a particularly good move.

So you asking ulti to claim flavor as (I think) your first post of d4 is nothing? Or are you referring to something else?

ctesjbuvf posted...

Uh oh lol

ctesjbuvf posted...

Do you mean n2 and not n3 here?

ctesjbuvf posted...

I don't get this paragraph sorry. If you know I am town, you know that scum was not the cause of the redirection?

Sorry, I was about three and a half hours late getting to my morning cup of coffee lol. First one was a typo, second one yes youre right, third one youre right - the third isnt even a typo its just due to me having (seemingly wrongly) all but convinced myself scum did the redirecting before you full claimed.

Dumey, will respond but need some time due to work duties. I dont really like your comment about me targeting town power as if to discourage it when the odds of no claimed town power being scum are slim to none.

Looking back at Hans reaction to no one dying n3, it almost reads more as incredulous scum than town. We lost no one and Hans first question is ultis flavor? N3 is either the first or (if ctes is indeed town) second time scums nk has failed and your first thought is to ask clarification on the uncountered doctors flavor? And then stepping away for 36 hours of d4, I totally believe Han having irl responsibilities but he admitted to being pissed and attributed it to being falsely accused. Sure its possible but another explanation is he was pissed off the NK failed.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Well that or did ao to make it look like he was always but that's a bit to bank on. Why lie though if scum like wouldn't you want to be like yeah I scanned sos and so they moved ot they didn't move. Honestly if scum as kc I would have probably been like yeah BCT is confirmed town now he didn't move and pocketed BCT the rest of the game but that's just me.

The lie would be weird but I guess there is a small possibility they tried to use that to confirm JC before last night I suppose

If jc is scum then claiming to get redirected to ulti is the safest lie he can make. That doesnt mean hes scum, but it means nothing in his favor either.

Im gonna do my best to be active but work will be busy today so I wanted to get these thoughts out now.

if ctes is scum, jc is probably scum, Ben is probably town, we likely know 2/3rds of scum

if ctes is town, jc is basically definitely town, Ben deserves some scrutiny but I/we dont know if scum redirect targets jc to redirect regardless of jcs original target or picks a scummate and redirects any actions directed their way. But Ben is not definitely scum.

but if we know ctes and jc are town then assuming me or possibly bct die tonight, then 2/3rds scum at minimum is within Han, Lea, and Dumey.

If jc is town, I dont know how redirect works but if scum was redirecting an action away from a target, it makes bct/Ben look super suspicious.

if jc is scum, it makes bct/Ben look a lot more town because jc saying hey I scanned bct and got redirected to ulti suggests the possibility scum was trying to protect bct/Ben.

Math again JC got redirected so that is odd if jc ctes are scum scum.

If jc is scum the idea is he lied about being redirected.

My point in saying that was hey, if ctes flips town it has jc as confirmed town as can be. If ctes flips scum, wed have a lot of reasons to think jc is.

But if ctes is town, a possibility Im tying to allow myself to be open to even though it means town has (imo bp) doc and a powerful Jack, my point is youd think scum has a lot of power to go up against that, and with ctes and jc town Im looking at claimed town power to see if scum is there and how it would fit into scums game plan. Thats what brought me to the idea of godfather and Dumey. An idea Im by no means sold on, but trying to think through.

Im talking about n1. I am saying jc could be scum even if ctes is town. Its unlikely, but if ctes is town then scum targeted crescent, which means they suspected her as town power. Again, I was saying its highly highly unlikely scum scan and attempt to kill the same target, but its not impossible.

Look, ulti is basically confirmed town. That leaves

Me
Ben
Sultan

Han
Lea
Dumey

jc
ctes
===========

Im in the unique position of knowing Im not town which no one else does, I realize. But I am town and I definitely think Sultan is town. Ben, Im on the fence, but even if hes scum, there has to be scum in one of the other groups. Unless you think me, sultan and Ben are all scum and thats correct (it isnt), at least one of Han/Lea/Dumey and ctes/jc contains scum.

In my opinion, ctes flipping is probably the most informative (mis)lynch either way because getting a definitive answer on the events of n1 would help us, and ctes also claims to have affected the events of n3.

If ctes flips town then jc is probably 99% town?

But at the same time i am torn because while scum would need some serious firepower, town having a bp doctor and jack with an EK is wow. Thats why I started thinking about the Han/Lea/Dumey group more closely last night. Of the three Lea and Han both had votes for Chris that make them look really good. Dumey was among those voting for death and arguably led the charge. IF Dumey is scum, mentioning considering a claim right off the jump makes the most sense if he is godfather. He would want to invite a scan in that case. Drum up peoples curiosity about his role, possibly have someone scan him right away. And there would be the added bonus to scum of wasting a scan and then cop might be soft defending Dumey while trying to maintain their own anonymity, which would help scum figure out who town cop was.

Jc isnt confirmed town. If ctes is scum then jc almost certainly is. And its very unlikely but not impossible scum would target and scan the same person to town clear their scanner

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

You know it's interesting we had to most activity today when Ctes was under some pressure. I feel so many people just let him off the hook..

Looking at Dumey and walls over Ctes? People want me beacuse of only my claim which is just bad, if jc wasn't confirmed town I'd look his way.. he hasn't even considered my play just oh well I can't scan you so i guess we just lynch you beacuse we can't get more info. This is just bad logic and kind of anti town

i definitely didnt let ctes off the hook. I may still move my vote back. And yes we had an influx of activity but he just claimed Jack and gave new information. I do wish other people were asking more questions and trying to get to the bottom of things though. Would love to see more Han today because he said he can play. Obviously he has work, but.

At least, they almost certainly did. I suppose its not impossible Chris couldve asked without knowing. But sultan is one of my stronger town reads between that, escape valve for Chris and (meta point but) after looking up his character, town drunk fits so well.

12 hours left.

Another reason I have Sultan nearly confirmed town - if sultan is scum then Chris and sultan coordinated using sultans concussion as part of the game.

*sheep and isquen both flipping town

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


All fair. If you havent noticed Im running down the list and trying to get reactions. As crescent said before dying, the PoE was megadisasterously off with sheep and isquen both flipping scum. Gotta consider everyone.

Lea do you really think Dumey is definitely town? Like as close to 100% as you can be?

And it goes without saying but youd never get lynched before Dumey.

PunishedBen posted...

I also notice you bring up Godfather unneccisarily in your first post and are somewhat randomly bringing up godfather in regards to Dumey today. You got GF on the mind?

Just saying if Wallz is scum he is probably Godfather.

Im trying to solve the game and thinking about the game state under the premise ulti and ctes are both telling the truth

PunishedBen posted...

See look this ALSO makes me think he's setting up for a power claim. How does claiming vanilla save the scan? How do you claim in part on vanilla townie?

I couldve claimed flavor (Mr. Boothby) to claim in part. And I was trying to say I wouldve claimed to avoid wasting the scan on me (viewing me being scanned as inevitable) but because of how I approached the situation, no one wouldve trusted my claim by that point.

Going to answer your questions in reverse order. I suspect recruitment because Lea started the lynch on Chris. Youll find out when you get past topic 1 lol.

*Lea has basically town cleared Dumey

dammit

Look, if you want to mislynch me so be it. Just give me until deadline and dont hammer early.

Really think this through. Lea said she feels really super good about Dumey being town because of all their wonderful conversations about the game and Dumeys thoughtful observations/reads which, in leas words, unfortunately arent making it here.

so Dumey has great observations about the game which are so good Lea has basically town cleared Lea but Lea and Dumey dont want to share them here? Wut?

Ive been thinking a lot about this. If we really have a bp doctor and ctes is town Jack, scum has to have some powerful shit up their sleeve to counter.

Lea was a d1 hero and yet hasnt really done much since. We all remember how Dumey started the game, teasing being town power but not saying it, really inviting a scan. I am reading now considering the possibility Dumey is godfather and recruited Lea during n1 or something.

Im learning a bit more about mafia and the various roles. Has b8 ever seen a godfather neighborizer who recruits someone to scum?

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Uh I'm the drunk? Not vanilla

apparently I was the drunk when I posted that

(Miller cop), bulletproof doctor, Jack, town drunk, lazy tracker, neighborizer.

vanilla: me, sultan, ben, Lea, Han.

I would guess four town power but who knows, maybe five. Definitely dont think scum is all in claimed power or all in vanilla

I believe ulti. I am putting myself squarely in the mindset of believing ctes and I have no idea what I think about anything.

Han and jc have defended ctes multiple times now because he shot death. I havent seen anyone else do it and Im just hoping to be guaranteed at least one person who is town agrees

HanOfTheNekos posted...

If Death isn't shot N1, then day 2 probably goes the exact way it did, except with Death being lynched instead of Sheep.

Dumey said he thought death looked town in light of Chris flipping scum

HanOfTheNekos posted...

Honestly Ctes claiming the shot on Death is the thing most in his favor.

Chaeix posted...

agreed - it'd be an incredibly ballsy play today alone, but it's compounded by him claiming a shot when a town killing role other than him could exist, if he were scum

Can someone else just tell me if they agree with this

Omg, so sorry sultan

I struggle with believing town has bp doctor and jack ctes and we have seen one unblockable kill from scum

lets say one scum is godfather. Still just seems very unbalanced

So does everyone think ulti is lying about being bp and ctes legit saved him? I dont know why ulti would be so foolish as to out himself as doctor if hes not bp

Ill fire this loaded gun but FUCK gotta save this dangerous role block!

ctesjbuvf posted...

Saving it for a night where the PoE is smaller. It'd be a shot in the dark and thank god I didn't, I might have been greatly mislead.

rip death

HanOfTheNekos posted...

:think:

lmao

i cant fathom PoE lining up single file nearly unprompted but still very funny