Lurker > Lopen

Alright! I've already done this assignment!

Red hammering me out of leverage to ask questions bah

If you can't be king who do you pick? Han? One of those two? Other?

Is IGCD better as king or is Plum?

Scare what are your thoughts on

IGCD as King?
Plum as King?

I'm also potentially okay with plum as king in addition to Scare and IGCD.

If he had a suspect list beyond me I would be more inclined to support it.

masterplum posted...

It's just a terrible king candidate. Sure he is town and would be impartial, but a live stream of rolling a die would also be impartial.

He is very clearly not a dice roll unless you're rolling a d3 or a d4

TidusOfTheX posted...

it was kinda obvious IGCD wasn't going to be king no matter what, so no point in voting him

With your vote he has 5/7 needed how is that obvious

Loki
Thor

It is definitely out of context

HanOfTheNekos posted...

What is this vote?

How do you trust IGCD to do anything?

Why wouldn't he. He said he would be ruthless and non democratic and is humoring multiple lynch candidates currently, and his lynch candidates don't seem terrible

That's all I want from a king.

I think IGCD and Scare are both fine candidates

IGCD is more likely town than Scare (I read both as town though) and is more likely to be spurred into being productive town by being King than Scare

##King: IGCD

Do prefer Scare to Han for the record.

Obellisk posted...

I just need a show of hands as to how many people think this is my scum game here.

My initial read was I thought you were town your last two games (to the point where I had you in "confirmed town" list in dead town chat). I don't really believe in that kinda logic but if we wanna pursue it it isn't good for you.

Everyone might be town because it's day 1.

By the time I'd lynched her I had her scum percentage at higher than random chance and thought she would be super disruptive to leave alive as scum. That was good enough for me.

So what I'm looking for from a king

Highly likely to lynch someone on my scum list
Highly unlikely to lynch someone on my town list
Running on a better platform than "let's vote democratically!"

Anyone who can claim these things can have my vote for today.

I reread my reign and the start of today btw.

Feel worse about
Death - He rushed King candidacy today on low hanging fruit. Also insists that so many people were saying Crescent was town but it really wasn't that many people on reread. Feelings on me don't feel organic, seem to be based on giving off an aura that he's town rather than trying to digest my motives as a player.
Sbell - Similar to Death, notable in that he didn't make any real push for Crescent being town yesterday. It was mostly Death + Ben (and Ulti when I pushed him, but Ulti didn't stick as hard to it as Death + Ben). Don't like how he went for an early vote on basically no platform worth mentioning at all and one that is basically identical to Death's (suspects me, but open to discussion, should just vote Death in that case)-- think scum might be getting wise that early candidates have power by default seeing how yesterday's voting went.
Tidus - Did want me dead yesterday, kinda backing off it today, then starting to go back to it after I'm saying it's more suspicious for people to not be suspicious of me. Starting to make dumb arguments that don't make sense about my reign. I'm starting to suspect he's scum and being coached with a basic playbook of "focus on telegraphing your power role so you have less avenues to screw up and get caught." Or maybe he thought of it himself? I'm not sure who fits on a team that is coaching Tidus-- is Death good and helpful enough to do that? Probably? Death+Tidus scumteam I would buy as possible.
Sultan - I feel like town Sultan is less measured than this-- he's making more sense than I'd like. He was also calling Crescent scummy a lot yesterday for not answering my questions, but today he's saying she was town and weighing whether I was town lynching her to make a point. Claims to "need to read more on me"-- I should be the last player in the game that needs to be read into more at this point.
MZero - Don't think his justification for thinking I'm town makes sense. I was telegraphing lynching him tomorrow yesterday-- if anything if I'm scum trying to lay out Crescent -> Mzero as a lynch roadmap makes more sense for me as scum. Lynching MZero yesterday is a patently inferior move to make as scum.
Rana - put more effort in Psych. He did draw power in Psych though. My theory is scum or vanilla.

Feel better about
red13n - he did play along early. He only really stopped caring to play along after Crescent sidetracked everything. To play along with MY game of all people, seems very pro town.
masterplum - has consistently suspected me yesterday into even today. I respect that. It would be easy enough to run it back but he came into the reign suspicious. Crescent in dead town chat last game basically drove into my head that plum tends to play overly paranoid as town, and it seems like suspecting me would fall in line with that. Much easier to backpedal and call me dumb town at this point if paranoia is faked.

Scum
Death
MZero
Sultan
Tidus

???
Han - very conceited play, seems to want to get king votes just to survive mostly which fits a town or scum agenda alike-- probably also because he wants to prove he'd be better at it than me. But also seems to be scumhunting.
Sbell - I had a town lean on him day 1 but I'm doubting based on previous assessment. I also don't like how he asked me to encourage voting for scum and cast no vote for scum when I did so.
Rana - uninteresting town role or scum. Probably harmless to lynch by default but I wouldn't at this point. Think we have enough data on others to test.

Town
Scare (easy for him to just not do anything yesterday and let day be worthless. Has been presenting some good thoughts.)
red13n (despite claims of Disneyland he's been relatively active today and has been helping the game along even when it is likely difficult for him to do so)
chang (had town lean yesterday, and claim seems what a town vig would do)
Kirby (seems to be analyzing the game, haven't seen anything super odd yet which I think would have happened by now if scum)
plum (explained above)
IGCD (have read him town all game, seems real, right down to that list being pulled out of his ass)

I still kinda like the "make IGCD king to pump him up" strategy since imo he's town and it makes him more useful long term but he also wants to lynch Han which I'm not convinced is a great play at the moment, better targets on board.

... I buy it.

IfGodCouldDie posted...

Scum
Han
Kirby321
Lopen
Mzero

Ranagrande
changmas
htaeD
Sbell
Scare

Plum
Red
Sultan
Tidus
Town

IfGodCouldDie posted...

You wanting me to have fun and actually try and get something out of me leads me to believe you're town

Explain.

IGCD important question am I scum or just a bad king.

Which miserable worm would you make an example of today were you elected

Kirby321 posted...

Though I think it was Sbell who was grilling Lopen on why Mzero got off the hook despite being absent for way longer than Crescent, which... is certainly an inconsistency.

I didn't lynch Crescent for being inactive I lynched her for being deliberately inactive when she's always super active.

If I was lynching on inactive I would've lynched Rana.

IGCD now that you're here how did you feel about me actually executing Crescent. Did that make me a better or worse king.

Obellisk posted...

Your decision was poor or calculated. I stand by it being AntiTown.

I still think it was pro town

Either she's scum and has a great excuse to not contribute the rest of the game because shes lost enthusiasm (and I've seen Crescent fairly accurately analyze her own mindset enough that imo it's within her range to realize how effective that could be and fake it) or she's town who isn't going to be helpful because she's lost enthusiasm.

Now I mean, it turns out she flipped Bus Driver so not contributing is very much still contributing since that's a very disruptive role for scum, so it was absolutely a bad move in the end, but I digress.

htaeD posted...

True, but the demand was still made. But this is clearly just a different standard for mafia play at work here.

I don't think my demand was any more unreasonable than her not asking questions and being super flippant about it when she said I was a tier 1 king and hadn't particularly suspected me at that point.

It was absolutely an ego play at the start there. I'm sure I frustrated her and got her legit mad later, but she made it about ego first.

So yeah. I hold her to a higher standard first. Respect me, I'll respect you.

Obellisk posted...

If I am missing a clear fact I kindly appreciate correcting me if my failure to remember is leading me down the wrong rabbit hole.

Scare had no influence on me lynching Crescent. Without him I probably just lynch her sooner or kinda idle and we have less usable content.

Scare did give me a good pep talk to refocus the day into something potentially more productive.

So no. Scare was very pro town yesterday and basically in Be-- my BOOK OF TOWN at the moment.

htaeD posted...

You didnt think the 5post limit demand was over the line?

No. I wanted to be in control of my kingship. I didn't want her to talk over me all day while talking trash about me not killing her. She floods the game with content too much sometimes. It is a distraction.

But I didn't want her to outright afk either. 5 posts is more than enough to say what you need to in the second half of a day. Regardless the host said that wasn't allowed almost immediately after

Obellisk posted...

I don't know if I like you tossing Scare under the proverbial bus as to your decision to lynch her. Clearly you want to lynch him now yes?

... have you read the game.

Also it makes me feel like Mzero is still a good lynch since he called me likely town. Not that any of the leading king candidates will listen to me today. Something to consider for tomorrow though. Especially if I'm dead by then.

htaeD posted...

Also you didnt comment on it, but I have to presume that Mzero's actions had nothing to do with your decision in the end.

I did comment on it yesterday in fact. Non-response through afk just made me suspect Mzero in the event Crescent flipped town. I would have killed her for it if someone had been flippant and posted but not answered, but just not being here is a cop out and says nothing about anyone.

htaeD posted...

What... do you really want to say here?

I'm going to reread day 1 and see who wants to kill me, compare to today. Tidus is the obvious weird one in the lot but there may be more subtle picks there too.

Obellisk posted...

just own that you made an anti town move and killed Crescent out of annoyance and not scum hunting.

Nope.

Annoyance killing her is killing her early.

I was over it by the end of the day. Sleep helped. More importantly Scare helped.

I know you all think it's obvious she was town because the flip confirmed what you said, but it is such a strong scum play to pretend to not be interested in the game anymore. I wasn't even that harsh. It was no reason to leave the game.

Also it feels like NOT suspecting me has by some weird twist become the less risky stance to take.

What a game huh.

htaeD posted...

I suspect him for not listening to anyone and not giving anyone a chance to convince him otherwise.

You need to stop pushing this lie.

I DID listen to people. That's why I took so long to actually decide on Crescent and gave her many chances to not be killed instead of killing her at like 5 hours in for pissing me off.

Listening doesn't mean caving. The many don't get more weight than the king. It doesn't work that way. I didn't lynch the target people wanted, but I DID listen.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

I mean it is beacuse It changes alot of how I think of your king play for sure

It shouldn't. Early in the day I heavily considered doing that because I was seriously annoyed, but by the end of the day I didnt think she was sure to be town at all. To just peace out entirely when given several lifelines to get back in seemed more likely to be a scum gambit to me.

(Though I DO really really hope she does realize that she did herself no favors there and did learn something and doesn't just shout about how I screwed up at the end of the game, that's not why I lynched her)

I don't think anyone in this game can really answer it too well.

But I also don't think it's a terribly relevant question.

I would ask you instead to guess why I don't think it's terribly relevant

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Key question i want everyone who has played with lopen to answer would lopen as town teach a player a lesson on day 1 rather then Kill someone he thinks is scum
Lopen dont answer this question this isnt for you

Can I answer yet

Kirby321 posted...

that Bus Driver protection role thing has been on my mind for a while now.

Kirby can you elaborate on how your thought process evolved here, and why. Like I'm talking real time, overnight thinking. You see the flip at say 8pm EST and then what. Like I assume you're not awake at a cold sweat at 3am EST, saying HOW DOES THAT BUS DRIVER WORK?

How are you spending your time developing your theory and why do you care if there's a doc or no protection or not at that level.

Oh don't get me wrong I don't think Changmas is wrong to be paranoid

But anyone thinking they're 100% lynched in a game where I exist is being hyperbolic or lying

Well you don't but I do think I'm pretty likely to be lynched today.

To be clear I don't really see the logic in scum using an extra shot to kill Ulti or Ben (I scarcely see the logic to scum using a kill on one, much less expend abilities to be sure they're both dead) so I mean, to me you're good but yeah, very strange that urge to need to fire I think.

changmas posted...

but to be clear the math check outs if you assume i'm getting lynched 100% on day 2 if I don't shoot, which I was under the impression was going to happen.

Elaborate on this

Why in a game with me having just brutally murdered the lovable cat that everyone else said was town do you think you're being lynched 100%

I think Rana needs to do more than one post today.

Any argument against Rana is just MZero but without trying to set me up to kill Crescent right now though so he's not exactly in my crosshairs at the moment.

Lynching Ulti probably has most people thinking I'm town. My argument against him was solid, he had a lot of suspicion too, and yeah, I did think he was more likely scum than town to the point where I would have felt safe with that lynch.

But imagine if Crescent WAS scum and DID do what I did. We'd just have this lump who doesn't do anything but has everyone thinking she's town. Ulti on the other hand, if he was scum, probably gets caught sooner rather than later with the eyes on him.

You can't say she wouldn't do that as scum, because you yourself have admitted you've never seen that behavior as either alignment. You've seen her be "self-destructive" but it isn't the same thing.

Side note the one thing I will say that's sorta regret is I really hope I didn't actually make Crescent that upset to just leave the game-- I mean, I likely did, but maybe she was just busy. I'm hoping she was just busy. Either way I'm not going to "take blame" for it though because I think she was the dick first, but yeah. I'm just saying I don't want that kinda interaction and wanting to avoid things like that is a big part of why I said I didn't want to play games with Crescent in them a few weeks ago-- I think the only reason I gave it a shot is because me and Crescent talked so much in dead town chat last game and it was pretty much all cool.

Anyway I don't really want to divert anymore town energy into this. I just wanted to explain myself. If you all want to kill me go ahead. I think I've explained my process more than enough at this point.

Like listen the town check doesn't work in that instance if I explain it first

Then she passes the town check and we're left with WIFOM and I kill her anyway

It serves no purpose. In fact me NOT explaining it gave her a much longer window for her to come back and show she was fit to finish the game. If I explained it right away then I go "AHA, SHE ONLY CAME BACK AFTER I EXPLAINED. SCUM!!"

Like I played it in the best possible way for her to survive outside of just going back on everything, which wasn't going to happen.

I provided my concluding reasons because I didn't want her to show up and say "I'm good to play, let's go!"

Whether I presented it for the rest of the players to argue against is irrelevant. I will straight up say I would have ignored you. It's the same reason I didn't encourage Ben to explain further why he thought Crescent was town when he offered after I said "Crescent answer these or die"

htaeD posted...

But your questions came after she left the game, which is what my answer was based on.
Why are we making this about Ulti anyway? Does his answer override everyone elses? Even the players who you didnt ask but still told you to leave Crescent alone?

People told me to leave Crescent alone but didn't have good arguments and they were basically redundant.

Ulti's was the only one with anything quantifiable and it was wrong.

In the end the people saying she should be left alone were why I gave her so many lifelines instead of just obliterating her on the spot, but in the end not taking that last lifeline felt more like a scum move than a town move

Sorry. But not sorry. I'd do it again and don't regret it.

htaeD posted...

Also what the hell does 'it has no layers' even mean in any important way?

It means the argument for Crescent being town was because she acts that way as town, but we could get no actual indications of how a scum crescent differs in any meaningful way that was actually true.

It was basically a tautology.

Ulti is the only one who tried give a specific reason, and it was basically directly wrong.

Heck the fact that she just left the game should have been an indication that she was scum to anyone using past behavior as a guideline and trying to approach the possibility in an unbiased fashion.

htaeD posted...

Her being away from the game is what one would call a 'emotional reaction'.

Nope. Ulti was admitted this was strange to leave the game

He also called her obvious town before she had left the game (or I had been elected King, for that matter)

I remember the order of events better than you, because I was actually trying to scum hunt with my questions while you were too busy being hysterical about me being a tyrant.

Your reasons were bad and had no layers.

Repeating the same bad reasons over and over doesn't give them more weight.

The fact that Ulti flipped town after saying she was "highly emotional, thus town" makes me think any active game from Crescent is considered a town game because he absolutely said she was obv town way before there was any remote indication she was emotional or annoying about anything.

I didn't tunnel Crescent btw.

If Crescent comes back and acted with any attitude that wasn't OH I'M SO DEPRESSED (and also claimed she would make sure to tunnel me the next day) I absolutely would have killed Ulti or Ben.

Funny my top two suspects were killed last night and flipped town-- by Ulti math that means I have a 900% chance of being right with Mzero though.

More suspicious of Death right now too.

If your platform is just to kill me, we can have anyone do that and I doubt it's unique thought process. Not sure why you're zerg rushing such an uninspired platform other than to virtue signal more about what a bad king I was.