Lurker > ctesjbuvf

Look at your own role pms and tell me that's not ridiculous.

There is no mention of a night 0 in anything I have received, but Lopen supposedly would be told if anyone had targeted him before the game even began?

Lopen posted...

Night 0 - No visitors
Night 1 - Used Tango, No visitors
Night 2 - Used Tango, No visitors

Did anyone consider Lopen is straight up saying there was a night 0 here? Were anyone else aware of night 0 being a thing?

Also, Kirby and Lea was eventually cleared by everyone but me saying that it might look weird, but that they both appeared town enough so people moved on.

Ironically, it's the opposite now, because people are willing to throw out their earlier reads for setup meta. Full circle or something. Make notes of instances like this, my friends.

Also back then you were accepting partly because of modifiers that made them different roles. But two pretty different watchers that has very low chances of coexisting is too broken, sure.

Chang being scum was never out of the question btw, I was just very disappointed in MZero's contributions today.

Telling me several times to complain to Isquen instead about setup instead of trying to convince town to not lynch town looks so bad. He also told me early in the day that it was fine to be wrong about reads and move on, which had the same sound of knowing the truth. It also makes him look even more stupid for just laughing when I eventually did that and that glass was already filled.

But I also know he's unreasonably stubborn with reads. I do think he's hard to read.

I hope you get back to reconsidering me being watcher on scum team and then somehow not telling telling my actions there, Kirby. Because you can be good, but that was flawed.

Fortunately nowhere near the dumbest things said today. I think the dumbest things said today are (in no particular order)

"You knew there was a miller so another one on top of that should be accepted right away"

"My role is not as good as yours without working for it, so you must lie."

"Most roles are bad, let's lynch the only useful ones" (said by scum sure, but people listening counts)

Same goes for "let's waste money on items to confirm me further than you already plan to"

"Kirby is our weak scanner".

It's been a long day.

Like, you need to stop and reconsider sometimes in mafia and I admit I should have done that more too. I was also called out for this.

Then you're now calling me out for doing it despite having been all over the place with opinions yourself, it's blatantly just bs reasoning.

What pointless reason is that

Plus given everything we know this could be to weaken one of the stronger roles.

But it's all a lot of could and why I changed my mind on using setup meta in this game.

Also no claimed cop helps making it seem like a ridiculous setup trap.

Lopen posted...

Like 3 millers can't exist in the game until Lopen catches me, now 3 millers is fine

Nice try, I got off him earlier than that.

Obellisk posted...

So you are 100% ok with 3 millers and 2 watchers.

Okay is definitely not the right word.

But I don't think 2 watchers in the way they're described sounds that bad.

Also I've clearly considered chang a lot today.

Obellisk posted...

Ctes.

who is the 2 scum and the 3rd party?

Lopen and MZero or red would be my current guess. Red is impossible for me to read especially when he's done so little but I also feel like he'd be better as town here. I'll say Lopen and MZero is my first guess. I thought MZero looked good, but I also thought he did in SW&P though before we figured out he had to be scum and he does idle as scum.

Don't care who the third party is atm, but you or red seems most likely based on claims.

Obellisk posted...

Ehh, scum team has been Sultan and hb so far and they were both lynch leaders day 1. I'm not putting that much stock into a well oiled plan. (no offense to either Sultan or HB or you for that matter)

Sounds to me like a scum team that had bussing.

Lopen just doesn't want you to consider things before taking a stance because you might come to the right conclusion.

Dammit SBell you were almost getting there.

If you think I'm mafia claiming miller, then try to consider a scum chat where everyone agrees on that then. If you can't make sense of that, then you're getting there again.

We literally have a game mentioned earlier where person A claims miller right away, B counters, C then counters and much much later D also counters. A and D spoke the truth. I mean, I don't know how that went, but you're all acting like there's some right answer to play when you're new to mafia, a good town role and wake up to two people having claimed your modifier.

Obellisk posted...

That's what I'm trying to angle here. that means 3 millers, 2 watchers, no real cops... sounds like madness to me.

That's all true without us both being town. Well, 2 watchers is a bit misleading, but still true.

Lopen posted...

Breadcrumbing scanning guilty is for scum

Town who want to find liars don't breadcrumb miller status

Nah, town who don't want to claim their power role try to find liars without that, and you all know I really tried hard to do that.

But also friendly reminder I have played three other games only all without actions. If you think you've found some fallacy, you also consider who made it.

That's what I meant.

Like, we can talk about my play of miller being bad play, but you should understand the reasoning for it. And if this is oh so objectively wrong to all of you, then don't you think someone would have told me to not include that?

Obellisk posted...

I will say this though.

2 claimed millers and your first post you type a cryptic IM MILLER post...

That's big fake claim setup and after 2 claimed your first post of the day should have been "Uh, fuck you guys, MILLER here and I'm not having this shit."

We've been through this SBell, I did not want to risk having to claim town power right away so I breadcrumbed it instead.

UltimaterializerX posted...

There is no possible way to know this unless the post PMd you and told you directly, or said something to this effect in scum chat.

What are you talking about

MZero posted...

Sure it could have been bussing, but Lopen did still start the lynch on the scum RB, which is more than ctes has done. So even from a gameplay perspective, I still think Lopen has looked better

So you say I can't be town that didn't have correct reads? This is not about achievements.

changmas posted...

if the roles were reversed and you were in my position and I in yours, you would honestly believe me over Lopen?

I would certainly consider it more than you are doing, that's for sure. I don't think our roles would be mutually exclusive like you're claiming them to be because of what I just explained and given how unlike anything else this setup has been so far.

I will also say that I legitimately don't understand people not being more in doubt than they are here.

Even with what chang says:

ctesjbuvf posted...

Yeah, but it's not as much a dublicate as you're making it out to be. They work differently in several ways and chang would not often get it this early either. Being watched by my Plague Ward tells them straight up a watcher exists. If things go differently, his is a late backup assuming chang would even be alive. With all the killing ablities, there's a fair chance he never gets it. The odds of us even having it at the same time are super low and even if we did, the setup trap is big enough that you might very well lynch one and then scum can kill the other. You simply cannot just say two watchers is too strong and not consider the rest here. In the very unlikely event that a time comes where both chang and I can use this on each other, then we're awarded catching one scum before one of us dies, unless they have a ninja or unless they still have a roleblocker or probably something else I'm not thinking of. So yeah, chances of getting it too this "game breaking" point are way lower than you're making them out to me.

I might not be in a position where it's fair to call out anyone's play in many instances but I will here.

*sounding

chang keeps sounded like he knows I'll flip town.

My best guess for the other scum is him or MZero ftr, I promised to mention that.

Also for the record I'm not as mad or angry as I probably sound.

changmas posted...

look if you're town then it's just unlucky. you were put in a situation where i would legitimately never believe you and that's that. if isquen set it up that way on purpose then that's a problem you should have with him

There are issues with the setup sure, but you've made some ridiculous statements today despite of that.

Lopen posted...

Also our roles both caught 1 scum each I'd call them equal

Your claimed role would literally have no use going forward now. Mine does.

Sure sure, hide behind your bus for not even trying the other days for as long as you can.

Obellisk posted...

For the record I think I lynch Lopen first here but that's mostly based on deep rooted paranoia.

If you're in doubt you lynch the weaker role for sure.

Oh and they inconsistent player.

changmas posted...

you claiming scum watcher? i'll accept that

Stop making yourself more stupid than you've already done today.

Kirby321 posted...

I don't think Ctes is going to convince anyone by constantly berating us for setup metaing :P

It's not only that. Not only is setup metaing not ideal in role madness, you're also doing a horrible job at it.

Kirby321 posted...

You and Lopen are definitely contradicting.

You watched Lopen two nights in a row
He said nobody visited him at all
You are not a Ninja

Therefore both of you cannot be telling the full truth.

Then why are you believing that my role is mafia aligned? In a world where Lopen is town and phychic and I am mafia and watcher, our claims would not contradict each other.

Regardless of what I flip, you say?

Is that you beginning to play like there's any way you can be town if if I die and flip town?

Like, you have to believe someone is lying.

But what you're saying doesn't make sense Kirby. If you believe those are all there to screw with my tracking role that you believe is scum, then Lopen and I don't have contradicting claims. If you believe that I am indeed a watcher but simply scum, then you have a huge hole in your logic with the contradicting claims.

Lack of cop is a bit weird, but helps explain why we're two-three millers if the whole purpose is to throw us off and it's not a nerf to any actual powers.

Red hasn't done much useful at all, but he was probably right when his said mass claim in role madness is a bad idea, because people can't stop setup metaing despite the game being called role madness.

From what I understood the lore about Roshan was that it was some enemy that both sides wanted to kill the fastest. It would seem like Corrik was that on our side. So it certainly makes sense for scum to make the discussion about who that person might be, but I don't see the benefit in it from town.

In the opening post or anything dms I have received there is no mention of any Roshan. The only place I've seen it confirmed to exist is in Corrik's flip. Game is about hunting scum. It should not have any importance to us if someone is Roshan or Mafia if it's someone not on our side. This is not an important distinction to make for us and talk about has no use to us.

A lot of points have been raised after the mass claim that makes sense to consider. This just seems lazy.

Or you could try to consider not just the claim (neither makes that much sense to fake I must admit) and look at how we've played, who's consistent and who is not.

Not as far as I can remember, I was a bit surprised when I had the healing salve used on me too.

MZero posted...

what more is there to say? You and Lopen have contradictory claims and we can't really proceed until that's solved. I've laid out why I think it makes more sense for yours to be the fake claim

You could try to answer why I would not mention being ninja if I was in fact ninja.

Like screw your pride about Ulti claiming he was the force in a kill you think you're the force in. You know Ulti very well. You don't spend time going back to find Ulti's quotes and then barely do anything besides that.

Leaving it at that and then disappearing again is not a good look for MZero however.

For as much as people seem to agree watching Lopen N2 is a terrible watch, people sure don't mind the inconsistency in Lopen's play from day to go. Try go back and reading some. He switches opinions constantly. His last remark day 1 was also that Hb was probably scum with Sultan for distancing and he walking back on this entirely for no reason. Initially it seemed to be because he thought Kirby was scum but even after we cleared that he doesn't reconsider Hb. He's also both been certain Corrik didn't target Ulti and that he did. Before this mass claim thing stole the show he was thinking Corrik targetted Ulti, which would mean he's not Roshan, but he's still considering Ulti being Roshan now.

Lopen is also stating himself constantly that he should be town confirmed for burying Sultan. It's pretty clear now that he was trying to ride that bus to make us meta instead of scumhunt and make us reveal information and make us waste money and other dumb things like that.

It looks good on MZero to consider both claims being true. For how long he has been around and the time it should have taken to read makes me worry he had more to read than what is given here. He's certainly making more careful posts than most here, for what that's worth.

Was it only Lopen who seemed to accept the ultimate miller concept so easily, because if you believed that day 1 you consider town traps and not setup metaing more here.

Well, I thought Lopen could have been ignored n1 maybe for being an obvious protection target so maybe they'd shoot him n2 instead where he didn't look as good but still had showed himself capable of pinning down scum.

I was surprised at my upgrade too, specially the random part makes it incredibly risky though I can choose to not use it even if I get it, but you can bet I would've tried to get more gold if I was scum where I could be certain I don't hit a teammate. It does make sense if town is given some way to save an eventual mess up I suppose.

Well, MZero is trying to make sense of both claims, which is more than most and is a good look for him.

If I was ninja, I would've said it though. It would be weird to fake visible moment with amount of unclaimed roles as well.

I am a confirmable watcher though. I can watch the shop as well to confirm, but if I somehow survive the day confirming me should be unnecessary.

Surely you must have an opinion on some of what happened overnight

tag

ctesjbuvf posted...

chang is all wifom atm. I want to refuse to believe he's be this insistant if he knows he looks an an idiot after the flip. We're talking about a game that last game he played should know that his death would all but implicate Lopen as scum and still chose to write in his death journal that town should kill me (I was town), so him being insistent in his terrible reads is not unlike his townplay. Initial thought is that he would know how terrible he looks when I flip town so he's not, but given how good he looks now I am considering if it's a play to look confirmed. Hardest to judge.

This should read "we're talking about a guy that last game...".