Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 7 - Oh my God it's a BLACK HOOOOLE (of host humor)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like Lea said "my ability is much better than Kirby's" I think you could get away with the same thing

i think ctes's play makes sense in the context of him not believing both lea and kirby are town

it could have been a long con claim of course and his associations are not particularly clean

the point by kirby in #180 of scum having a watcher/tracker does make some sense to me given lea's flip

changmas posted...

Kirby, Kirby, Kirby. you were supposed to hold the line and not make me have to do this.

but fine if i have to bury ctes 6 feet under then so be it.

My Agh's shard upgrade, which I have to spend 3 days and 2 successful lynches' worth of income on, is to become a ninja watcher.

there is no fucking SHOT this guy started the game with roughly the same power I have to spend 500 gold on. absolutely zero chance.

no more waffling. we wait for mzero to claim and the new shop to drop and we end the day.

lol gg then, no brainer

Lopen posted...

Like Lea said "my ability is much better than Kirby's" I think you could get away with the same thing

Lea was killed right away and the best guess is that is why, what a bad argument.

PoppyTheNinja posted...

lol gg then, no brainer

Seriously, for all you insisting on doing setup meta, chang saying there's no way I have gotten a better role than him is the worst point.

ctesjbuvf posted...

Seriously, for all you insisting on doing setup meta, chang saying there's no way I have gotten a better role than him is the worst point.

it's less you having a betteer role and more than i find it super hard to believe there would be duplicate roles, especially town watcher when that would quite literally be a gamebreaking combination

admittedly your responses here are giving me a little pause

but realistically in this situation it's not the end of the world for town even if we're wrong so if you're town please hunt for who lopen's teammate is here

Oh huh. Double Town Watcher would be pretty busted without roleblockers. Both of the Watchers just watch each other while the rest of the world burns down

Anyway, Poppy is right. We've got guaranteed scum between Ctes and Lopen (though it would be funny if Lopen was the ultimate busser and they're both actually scum).

We need to discuss who Ctes's scumbuddy is. Definitely not chang (or me, for that matter). Ulti? Sbell? Red? Poppy? MZero? Do any of these make sense?

Ulti, we lynch scum today and you can absolutely lynch me tomorrow if it'll satisfy your curiosity.

If Ctes is scum and not Roshan (I think he's scum) the last scum certainly lies in Corrik's hint

I would rather test Ulti first. I think Poppy looks considerably better if all scum flip, though it is possible he is Roshan and would explain why he was so livid I would have him tested based on Corrik dying-- truly caught for the wrong reasons situation there. However it would take an incredible read on the game setup to fakeclaim what he did as Roshan.

In the setup, Ctes, Ulti are definitely not town

Changmas is in my mind mortally confirmed town-- he's just playing this game too open mindedly and without fear to be scum or Rosh, and his claim looks damn good. I will also remove myself, because my opinion on myself is worthless and just muddies the waters

3 - Kirby321
5 - MZero
6 - Obellisk
7 - PoppyTheNinja
8 - red13n

These are the remainders

If you eliminate the scum team by lynching Ulti and Ctes, then best lynch order is

Obellisk
red13n
MZero
PoppyTheNinja
Kirby321 (do think Corrik scanned him day 1-- don't think Corrik would outright put him on a town list if he scanned him as Roshan even if I think Corrik doesn't necessarily go after Roshan n1)

If Ulti (or Ctes, I guess) was Roshan, the best lynch order is

PoppyTheNinja (if Ctes was Roshan, move him down one spot)
red13n
Kirby321
Obellisk (makes considerably less sense as scum than third party)
MZero (makes considerably less sense as scum than third party)

Ctes x Poppy Scum with Ulti as Rosh is my personal guess for setup after much deliberation.

Nah

Ctes x Ulti Scum
Sbell Rosh

Makes more sense

Actually for Roshan just figuring out why Death is dead probably solves a lot there. ISO on Death if we're still trying to find Roshan after Ulti is dead is probably smart

Then again if SBell is scum I've heard he busses and he didn't really build on Hb or Sultan all that much, and Poppy hail marying the setup is, yeah, hard to think he'd do that, much easier to think he's overly defensive town is most configs as much as I really don't like him waffling on my alignment.

If Ulti (or Ctes, I guess) was Roshan, the best lynch order is (REDO)

PoppyTheNinja (if Ctes was Roshan, move him down two spots)
red13n
Obellisk (makes considerably less sense as scum than third party, but can bus)
Kirby321
MZero (makes considerably less sense as scum than third party, don't see him bussing Hb AND Sultan that hard)

"Hello again, and welcome to the Secret Shop! Our stock is always changing. Everyday's a sale! Every sale's a win! Buy stuff now or kick yourself later! ...Or something like that.

First and foremost, we are no longer offering the Massive Pidas - something about a "Twitch chat" and a "ban evasion." Hmph. Additionally, the Mangos we had in stock got taken by some Greevil in retaliation for me borrowing its eggs. Fair's fair, I suppose. On that note, if you have some of that Mayonnaise? The batch we had in the back of the tent gave Roquelaire some frightful food poisoning this morning. I wouldn't recommend eating it at this juncture, but you do you. Apologies for the delay to show off our new stock - do you know how frightful it is to clean up after a sick bird?"

New items available for purchase during night 3:

Linken's Lotus Orb - 900 gold - A bright orb/sphere with a floral motif in the loosest sense of the word, purchasing this passively has a chance to block a harmful ability (by roleblocking someone targeting you.) If you use it as a day action instead, it will remove any debuffs the target is suffering from, though the recipient will have a noticeable mirrored-blue sphere appear around them. If either the active is used or the passive triggers successfully, the passive component goes away and recharges after a full day passes.

Listener's Wards - 150 gold - A number of severed earlobes attached to a fetish shaped like a tent spoke. Place this at your feet as a free action and you will be able to hear anyone approaching you in the night. This also amplifies your sense of hearing during the day, and you'll be able to hear anyone else placing a ward, or doing something similar - or you might hear yourself moving around with better clarity. These experimental wards expire at the end of the next day or night phase, or if they are destroyed by a method of detection.

Actually put Kirby up below Red13n

Kirby's role is only worthless as a town role.

As a scum role, it potentially doesn't flag any "this role sucks" whistles so it's easier to fakeclaim it as town early using your legitimate scum role because you're really milking that miller aspect-- you aren't aware all our roles suck.

If Ulti or Ctes is Roshan (especially if it's Ulti), you need to look into Kirby pretty hard. Kirby considering lynching me today over Ctes kinda raises some red flags too because it's hard to imagine anyone takes everything in and thinks Ctes is the two of us that might be telling the truth.

Keep in mind that train of thought ONLY applies if Kirby is scum

Kirby as Roshan would not have a legitimate scum role there to be claiming as I know that's not Roshan's actual ability, so it would indeed be just as ballsy claim for him as it would be for Poppy/Chang

Isquen posted...

"Hello again, and welcome to the Secret Shop! Our stock is always changing. Everyday's a sale! Every sale's a win! Buy stuff now or kick yourself later! ...Or something like that.

First and foremost, we are no longer offering the Massive Pidas - something about a "Twitch chat" and a "ban evasion." Hmph. Additionally, the Mangos we had in stock got taken by some Greevil in retaliation for me borrowing its eggs. Fair's fair, I suppose. On that note, if you have some of that Mayonnaise? The batch we had in the back of the tent gave Roquelaire some frightful food poisoning this morning. I wouldn't recommend eating it at this juncture, but you do you. Apologies for the delay to show off our new stock - do you know how frightful it is to clean up after a sick bird?"

New items available for purchase during night 3:

Linken's Lotus Orb - 900 gold - A bright orb/sphere with a floral motif in the loosest sense of the word, purchasing this passively has a chance to block a harmful ability (by roleblocking someone targeting you.) If you use it as a day action instead, it will remove any debuffs the target is suffering from, though the recipient will have a noticeable mirrored-blue sphere appear around them. If either the active is used or the passive triggers successfully, the passive component goes away and recharges after a full day passes.

Listener's Wards - 150 gold - A number of severed earlobes attached to a fetish shaped like a tent spoke. Place this at your feet as a free action and you will be able to hear anyone approaching you in the night. This also amplifies your sense of hearing during the day, and you'll be able to hear anyone else placing a ward, or doing something similar - or you might hear yourself moving around with better clarity. These experimental wards expire at the end of the next day or night phase, or if they are destroyed by a method of detection.

man, there are way too many situational / bad items.

mzero where ya at

in this game it's too expensive though. unless somebody has a gold generating passive there's no way to feasibly buy it

##Unvote

while i'm at it

don't want day to end before mzero checks in

i went and reread my own post on ctes from last topic ( https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80160252/967961754 )

again the actions are kinda consistent with the miller claim but the associations are not particularly good and i can't get over the fact that potential town watchers in a setup doesn't make much sense

and even if a lot of lopen's arguments rub me the wrong way his play makes less sense from a scum framework than ctes's

ctesjbuvf posted... I can confirm that Kirby indeed moved and went to the shop, that much is certain.

If Corrik visited Kirby, Death lying is the only possibility.

uh...remind me again how you know he moved and went to the shop?

PoppyTheNinja posted...

and even if a lot of lopen's arguments rub me the wrong way his play makes less sense from a scum framework than ctes's

Hes had a pretty hard fixation on Roshan and I still don't feel particularly good about him.

But yeah at this point really just waiting on Mzero to check in.

PoppyTheNinja posted...

uh...remind me again how you know he moved and went to the shop?

I gave him mayo.

I couldn't have obtained the mayo without visiting the shop N1.

Don't worry, I was confused about that, too, until Ctes clarified it today. And I totally thought he was a Tracker because of it, too >_>

Kirby321 posted...

I gave him mayo.

I couldn't have obtained the mayo without visiting the shop N1.

Don't worry, I was confused about that, too, until Ctes clarified it today. And I totally thought he was a Tracker because of it, too >_>

Could have started the game with Mayo in inventory?

Kirby321 posted...

I gave him mayo.

I couldn't have obtained the mayo without visiting the shop N1.

Don't worry, I was confused about that, too, until Ctes clarified it today. And I totally thought he was a Tracker because of it, too >_>

oh right

red13n posted...

Could have started the game with Mayo in inventory?

I started with the Observer Ward, which I gave to Death on D1.

Unless you're suggesting I started with two items -- the Ward and the mayo. Which isn't the case.

Kirby321 posted...

I started with the Observer Ward, which I gave to Death on D1.

Unless you're suggesting I started with two items -- the Ward and the mayo. Which isn't the case.

honestly just throwing out a dumb hypothetical because I'm a little bored and restless. (Admittedly, items kind of rack my brain a bit, they are more than i typically care to pay attention to in a mafia game).

like if I were a dumb conspiracy theoriest, we start getting into a crazy scenario of you handing off an item, a scummate handing you another item, and then you handing off that item.

But no, this didn't happen.

I'm sure I didn't even take that dumb scenario far enough. It could probably get dumber.

I'm at work at haven't read but skimmed enough to know my claim is desired

Razzil Darkbrew, Town Greed

I get 200 gold instead of 100 per day. I bought the gauntlet last night so now I get 400

I also have a potion that cures poison, and my shard upgrades lets me copy any item I have and give it to someone

MZero posted...

my shard upgrades lets me copy any item I have and give it to someone

I assume this can't copy the shard itself

i believe the shard gets consumed when you use it, so he'd have to buy a 2nd one to do that.

regardless though i believe mzero, it doesn't make sense for these ridiculously expensive items to exist if no one has an econ ability

ALTHOUGH alchemist (his hero) is the one i was talking about that has the stun...

changmas posted...

ALTHOUGH alchemist (his hero) is the one i was talking about that has the stun...

My DOTA knowledge is certainly waning but this was the thing where you charge the concoction and it increases in stun duration based on how long you charged? That and greed are the only thing I remember from alchemist.

Also I'm going to brag that my DotA knowledge has waned but I can still step into a completely casual DOTA game and win for the one game I queue up for every year.

(Also recognizing I am also complete shit at the game but DotA is so completely casual player unfriendly that those at whatever trash matchmaking level the game puts me in create a sad excuse for a game).

red13n posted...

My DOTA knowledge is certainly waning but this was the thing where you charge the concoction and it increases in stun duration based on how long you charged? That and greed are the only thing I remember from alchemist.

yes, and it self-stuns if you hold it too long

PoppyTheNinja posted...

it's less you having a betteer role and more than i find it super hard to believe there would be duplicate roles, especially town watcher when that would quite literally be a gamebreaking combination

Yeah, but it's not as much a dublicate as you're making it out to be. They work differently in several ways and chang would not often get it this early either. Being watch by my tells them straight up a watcher exists. If things go differently, it's a late backup assuming chang is even alive. With all the killing, there's a fair chance he never gets it. The odds of us even have it at the same time are low and even if we did, the setup trap is big enough that you might very well lynch one and then scum can kill the other. You simply cannot just say two watchers is too strong and not consider the rest. In the very unlikely even a time comes where both chang and I can use this on each other, then we're awarded catching one scum before one of us dies, unless they have a ninja or unless they still have a roleblocker or probably something else I'm not thinking of. So yeah, chances of getting it too this "game breaking" point are way lower than you're making them out to me.

Also chang's initial post about it straight up complained that my role had something he would struggle to get on his which I stand by is in contention for the most ridiculous statement anyone has made.

Also up there in most ridiculous statements is trying to cite Lea, almost assuredly killed N1 for having claimed power, as what would be definite optimal play for Miller Power not wanting to out their own power.

Lopen posted...

Changmas is in my mind mortally confirmed town-- he's just playing this game too open mindedly

He is quite definitely the least open minded person atm lol.

Lopen posted...

Tango (2 charges) - I get greatly increased health regeneration for the night or day I use it. I cannot give it away. I assume this is how doc saves work in this game and I'm basically bulletproof when I use it but I am not sure.

Also you don't get to say you were a bad watch N2 while claiming to have used your only remaining healing item that night. That's stupidly hypocritical but everyone chooses to ignore things like this for no reason.

For what it's worth and since Ulti decided to threw his plans in the water without thinking twice, when Ulti used that healing salve on me, I was specifically told it would have saved me if I was on the brink of death but given that wasn't the case nothing happened. With everything revealed so far we already know there are damanging and healing aspects beyond kills and saves, it's so blatantly dumb to speculate this.

"Doc saves this game is probably that I and only I am bulletproof" is another ridiculous statement that almost passed by me because of the stupidity that followed.

Yesterday, Poppy was calling Lopen scum or stupid to the point of receiving a host warning in topic for his insults.

Today, Ulti was doing insults to a similar degree for similar reasons (though he got no host warning). Then instantly believes that Lopen must be the one telling the truth in two contradicting statements for... no explained reasons.

Lopen's game has been killing a good aligned role D1 very tunnelvisioned. We all said how good play that was (but know we know there was no skill in that).

The rest of his game has literally been all about not reading the game by trying to figure out meta stuff, purely and without exception, but only hiding behind a convincing bussing move. That's been the plan, it would seem. He has openly refused to consider anything else to the point of at least two people getting legitimately angry. How is any of this townplay.

Also being that fixated on Roshan is scummy. Where are the people that keep saying third party discussing is scum. Corrik's reasons are well known, but there is literally little point at considering this and not just scumhunt. We barely even know what we're looking for.

I think Poppy getting that angry yesterday to the point of risking modkill makes a scum/scum interaction incredibly unlikely. Probably the best clear.

Ulti bringing up Crescent is also ridiculous and not even remotely okay if he's not legit frustrated at the time. It's still not okay, but worse as a play. Also he's our only uncountered protection. Don't think he should be touched either.

Scum were humoring the idea of a scum in Kirby/Lea was more than the rest of you. Really made it seem like they hoped for a mislynch in that interaction. Or maybe Roshan, scum has reason to find him. Kirby is very unlikely scum with those two.

chang is all wifom atm. I want to refuse to believe he's be this insistant if he knows he looks an an idiot after the flip. We're talking about a game that last game he played should know that his death would all but implicate Lopen as scum and still chose to write in his death journal that town should kill me (I was town), so him being insistent in his terrible reads is not unlike his townplay. Initial thought is that he would know how terrible he looks when I flip town so he's not, but given how good he looks now I am considering if it's a play to look confirmed. Hardest to judge.

red13n posted...

Hes had a pretty hard fixation on Roshan and I still don't feel particularly good about him.

If anyone is even considering Lopen and I being scum/scum, Lopen is without a doubt the one you kill first. Role usefulness alone is enough there.

PoppyTheNinja posted...

again the actions are kinda consistent with the miller claim

They're not kinda consistent they are completely consistent, it literally threw me off for days. You can for sure attack their worth but not their consistency.

changmas posted...

i believe the shard gets consumed when you use it, so he'd have to buy a 2nd one to do that.

regardless though i believe mzero, it doesn't make sense for these ridiculously expensive items to exist if no one has an econ ability

Once again, this ability unfortunately ended up in the wrong hands as I'm not usually around at deadline to make sure I get the bonus monies (just like when I was mayor and couldn't save Han)

ctesjbuvf posted...

chang is all wifom atm. I want to refuse to believe he's be this insistant if he knows he looks an an idiot after the flip. We're talking about a game that last game he played should know that his death would all but implicate Lopen as scum and still chose to write in his death journal that town should kill me (I was town), so him being insistent in his terrible reads is not unlike his townplay. Initial thought is that he would know how terrible he looks when I flip town so he's not, but given how good he looks now I am considering if it's a play to look confirmed. Hardest to judge.

This should read "we're talking about a guy that last game...".

Also rereading the message I can create a copy of almost any item I have had or has been used on me

So shard isn't out but is probably one of the exceptions