Board 8 > Dota 2 Mafia 2 Topic 7 - Oh my God it's a BLACK HOOOOLE (of host humor)

(+) Yeah! (+)

if the roles were reversed and you were in my position and I in yours, you would honestly believe me over Lopen?

I mean lopen has spent the entire game basing all of his theories on the words of a dead player that cannot clarify what he was doing or meant

Lopens entire design has been to lead us based on faith in the unknown.

Why is it so much easier to believe lopen over ctes for you chang?

I will also say that I legitimately don't understand people not being more in doubt than they are here.

Even with what chang says:

ctesjbuvf posted...

Yeah, but it's not as much a dublicate as you're making it out to be. They work differently in several ways and chang would not often get it this early either. Being watched by my Plague Ward tells them straight up a watcher exists. If things go differently, his is a late backup assuming chang would even be alive. With all the killing ablities, there's a fair chance he never gets it. The odds of us even having it at the same time are super low and even if we did, the setup trap is big enough that you might very well lynch one and then scum can kill the other. You simply cannot just say two watchers is too strong and not consider the rest here. In the very unlikely event that a time comes where both chang and I can use this on each other, then we're awarded catching one scum before one of us dies, unless they have a ninja or unless they still have a roleblocker or probably something else I'm not thinking of. So yeah, chances of getting it too this "game breaking" point are way lower than you're making them out to me.

I might not be in a position where it's fair to call out anyone's play in many instances but I will here.

Obellisk posted...

Why is it so much easier to believe lopen over ctes for you chang?

because ctes role shouldn't ever exist with mine also

I think you're oversimplifying my game if you think I've been doing that all game

Sultan wasn't doing that
I drove this mass claim, and caught Ctes with it, which wasn't doing that

It's easy to paint this game as me rambling about Corrik the whole time because pushing for anyone that wasn't hb was the one time I've been wrong, but it's looking like I will have caught 3/4 scum + Roshan by the time the game is done.

changmas posted...

if the roles were reversed and you were in my position and I in yours, you would honestly believe me over Lopen?

I would certainly consider it more than you are doing, that's for sure. I don't think our roles would be mutually exclusive like you're claiming them to be because of what I just explained and given how unlike anything else this setup has been so far.

changmas posted...

because ctes role shouldn't ever exist with mine also

Do you think that duplicate powers can't exist in a low power game like this one? Items exist giving people duplicate powers.

We have 3 claimed millers and no legit cop. and to make cop an upgrade power that takes 3 game days to even afford is just bad. so that means "Miller" is just a red herring.

Also if Ulti does turn out to be the 4th scum, and it's looking like he will, Corrik won't even have been a wrong lead it will have just needed Han to refocus my energy (technically Kirby is the one that made it more obvious in that town/scum post he quoted, which is a big part of why I think Kirby is town. That's legit game solving there.)

Lopen posted...

I think you're oversimplifying my game if you think I've been doing that all game

Sultan wasn't doing that
I drove this mass claim, and caught Ctes with it, which wasn't doing that

It's easy to paint this game as me rambling about Corrik the whole time because pushing for anyone that wasn't hb was the one time I've been wrong, but it's looking like I will have caught 3/4 scum + Roshan by the time the game is done.

Of course, more has been done. But you were highly focused on 3rd party to start the game and based atleast 2 topics around Corrik.

Devils advocating over here.

Sure it could have been bussing, but Lopen did still start the lynch on the scum RB, which is more than ctes has done. So even from a gameplay perspective, I still think Lopen has looked better

Obellisk posted...

Do you think that duplicate powers can't exist in a low power game like this one? Items exist giving people duplicate powers.

We have 3 claimed millers and no legit cop. and to make cop an upgrade power that takes 3 game days to even afford is just bad. so that means "Miller" is just a red herring.

they could, but not in this way imo. and i don't believe i'm the only person that believes this either. i don't even think it's controversial

I expect an apology from you all when Ulti turns out to be scum.

I will say this though.

2 claimed millers and your first post you type a cryptic IM MILLER post...

That's big fake claim setup and after 2 claimed your first post of the day should have been "Uh, fuck you guys, MILLER here and I'm not having this shit."

Obellisk posted...

That's big fake claim setup and after 2 claimed your first post of the day should have been "Uh, fuck you guys, MILLER here and I'm not having this shit."

YES.

MZero posted...

Sure it could have been bussing, but Lopen did still start the lynch on the scum RB, which is more than ctes has done. So even from a gameplay perspective, I still think Lopen has looked better

So you say I can't be town that didn't have correct reads? This is not about achievements.

Achievement unlocked: Hat Trick.
Drive the lynch on 3 scum in one game.

Obellisk posted...

I will say this though.

2 claimed millers and your first post you type a cryptic IM MILLER post...

That's big fake claim setup and after 2 claimed your first post of the day should have been "Uh, fuck you guys, MILLER here and I'm not having this shit."

We've been through this SBell, I did not want to risk having to claim town power right away so I breadcrumbed it instead.

UltimaterializerX posted...

There is no possible way to know this unless the post PMd you and told you directly, or said something to this effect in scum chat.

What are you talking about

Like, we can talk about my play of miller being bad play, but you should understand the reasoning for it. And if this is oh so objectively wrong to all of you, then don't you think someone would have told me to not include that?

ctesjbuvf posted...

We've been through this SBell, I did not want to risk having to claim town power right away so I breadcrumbed it instead.

you didn't though.

you breadcrumbed scanning guilty. you didn't breadcrumb watcher.

That's what I meant.

Breadcrumbing scanning guilty is for scum

Town who want to find liars don't breadcrumb miller status

UltimaterializerX posted...

I have to ask in case I die - is there any possible world where ctes and Lopen are both town?

A game setup I don't want to play in where the host is blatantly lying about one of our roles.

And after 2 people already claimed Miller it's a safe assumption there IS a legit cop in the game. and if you had opened the game planning to claim Miller as your scum strategy you would only be empowered to do so after seeing 2 other millers you KNOW are real (since you are scum in this scenario and have no reason to believe any town claim is a lie) and now you know a cop exists, based on all of this.

ctesjbuvf posted...

So you say I can't be town that didn't have correct reads? This is not about achievements.

No I'm saying Lopen has looked better head-to-head, and your claim contradicts his, thus I think you're the more likely to be scum

UltimaterializerX posted...

I have to ask in case I die - is there any possible world where ctes and Lopen are both town?

That's what I'm trying to angle here. that means 3 millers, 2 watchers, no real cops... sounds like madness to me.

Lopen posted...

Breadcrumbing scanning guilty is for scum

Town who want to find liars don't breadcrumb miller status

Nah, town who don't want to claim their power role try to find liars without that, and you all know I really tried hard to do that.

But also friendly reminder I have played three other games only all without actions. If you think you've found some fallacy, you also consider who made it.

Unfortunately Lopen is right.

Scum breadcrumbs they are miller.

Town poorly breadcrumbs who they target at night. >_>

Obellisk posted...

That's what I'm trying to angle here. that means 3 millers, 2 watchers, no real cops... sounds like madness to me.

That's all true without us both being town. Well, 2 watchers is a bit misleading, but still true.

Obellisk posted...

That's what I'm trying to angle here. that means 3 millers, 2 watchers, no real cops... sounds like madness to me.

More directly. It means I got a PM for my role where I was told no one visited me and Ctes with his role sent a PM to the host to watch me.

So no there is no possible world where we are both town. Anyone vaguely humoring that possibility is not town aligned. Scum Ulti and Rosh Sbell discussing it makes a lot of sense.

Dammit SBell you were almost getting there.

If you think I'm mafia claiming miller, then try to consider a scum chat where everyone agrees on that then. If you can't make sense of that, then you're getting there again.

We literally have a game mentioned earlier where person A claims miller right away, B counters, C then counters and much much later D also counters. A and D spoke the truth. I mean, I don't know how that went, but you're all acting like there's some right answer to play when you're new to mafia, a good town role and wake up to two people having claimed your modifier.

Lopen posted...

More directly. It means I got a PM for my role where I was told no one visited me and Ctes with his role sent a PM to the host to watch me.

So no there is no possible world where we are both town. Anyone vaguely humoring that possibility is not town aligned. Scum Ulti and Rosh Sbell discussing it makes a lot of sense.

that's a bit much Lopen. stifiling any conversation while sorting through the muck is unbecoming.

I'm literally saying Ctes makes the most sense as scum here. don't throw shade for anyone trying to dot the I and cross the T

Us both being town is crossing a W, not a T.

ctesjbuvf posted...

If you think I'm mafia claiming miller, then try to consider a scum chat where everyone agrees on that then. If you can't make sense of that, then you're getting there again.

Ehh, scum team has been Sultan and hb so far and they were both lynch leaders day 1. I'm not putting that much stock into a well oiled plan. (no offense to either Sultan or HB or you for that matter)

Lopen just doesn't want you to consider things before taking a stance because you might come to the right conclusion.

Obellisk posted...

Ehh, scum team has been Sultan and hb so far and they were both lynch leaders day 1. I'm not putting that much stock into a well oiled plan. (no offense to either Sultan or HB or you for that matter)

Sounds to me like a scum team that had bussing.

Ctes.

who is the 2 scum and the 3rd party?

Obellisk posted...

Ctes.

who is the 2 scum and the 3rd party?

Lopen and MZero or red would be my current guess. Red is impossible for me to read especially when he's done so little but I also feel like he'd be better as town here. I'll say Lopen and MZero is my first guess. I thought MZero looked good, but I also thought he did in SW&P though before we figured out he had to be scum and he does idle as scum.

Don't care who the third party is atm, but you or red seems most likely based on claims.

So you are 100% ok with 3 millers and 2 watchers.

I like how you've been focusing Kirby all game but Kirby x Lopen is not a possibility you've considered.

To say nothing of Chang

Current votals
[3] Ctes - Ulti, Lopen, Chang
[1] Sbell - Kirby, (Chang)
[1] Lopen - (Poppy), Ctes
[0] Ulti - (Lopen)
[0] Poppy - (Kirby), (Lopen)
[0] Kirby - (Ctes)
[0] Red - (Ulti), (Poppy), (Chang)

Like 3 millers can't exist in the game until Lopen catches me, now 3 millers is fine

lmao

curious... has red mentioned anything about the shop yet?

Obellisk posted...

So you are 100% ok with 3 millers and 2 watchers.

Okay is definitely not the right word.

But I don't think 2 watchers in the way they're described sounds that bad.

Also I've clearly considered chang a lot today.

Lopen posted...

Like 3 millers can't exist in the game until Lopen catches me, now 3 millers is fine

Nice try, I got off him earlier than that.

Also no claimed cop helps making it seem like a ridiculous setup trap.

Plus given everything we know this could be to weaken one of the stronger roles.

But it's all a lot of could and why I changed my mind on using setup meta in this game.

Can we hammer so we get flip in this topic