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Suprak the Stud posted...

Yeah I thought everything on this list, even those I dont consider straight up horror, at least were horror inspired or horror infused or horror adjacent to the point their inclusion made sense.

Split was probably the biggest stretch but I still get it.

Split and Purge Anarchy struck me as the biggest stretches, but both qualify as horror in my book.

Lightning Strikes posted...

The thing is, Alien vs Predator and Underworld, along with Train to Busan as well talk about, arent really horror movies but have horror settings and themes. Disturbia is just a thriller.

I'm still waiting for a definition of "horror movie" we all can agree on.

In the previous topic, somebody said it's a movie that's "frightening," but that's way too subjective.

Snake5555555555 posted...

Sure, if you think so! I'm not the end all, be all of these lists by any means. I don't think any list can really be 100% perfect.

No matter what you do, you can't please everyone. Especially when we can't even nail down an objective definition of what a horror movie is.

Corrik7 posted...

I just finished Busan and am on VHS right now

I read that as "I just finished Busan on VHS right now" and almost went to check eBay for Busan videotapes.

Suprak the Stud posted...

I cant imagine Busan has any low rankings especially with whats left. Besides Get Out I would guess Busan has the lowest spread.

When Girl Walks Home dropped early, I thought Busan was in trouble as the other foreign/subtitles movie. But so far it has held up like a champ.

Arguably Busan is our Cinderella, although I think Tucker had the most surprising run.

_SJimW_ posted...

When I was in the seventh grade, I was a Nintendo fanboy to the highest degree. Like, as big as you could be. One day there was a kid playing his PSP in class, and I told the teacher on him. Not because he was playing a video game, or because I didn't like him, or because I was distracted, but purely because it was a PSP. The teacher confiscated the kid's PSP, and afterwards, he came over to my desk and broke all of my pencils in anger. When pressed as to why I did this, I responded "Because one less PSP being played is a victory for Nintendo".

Hhahaha that's nuts

KamikazePotato posted...

The first 1/4 of Graces is really good! The falloff happens early. Vesperia is a good example of a late game falloff.

Haven't played Vesperia yet, although the definitive edition is in my backlog.

Strife2 posted...

Arise has a simple and effective story but decides to eat stupid pills 90% of the way through. I've heard that's Takes' M.O., but fuck

I've played about a half-dozen Tales games. Most stories were either consistently bad (Graces f, Symphonia 2) or consistently good (Berseria, Abyss, Symphonia).

That said, you're not the first person to mention Arise having that issue where it falls off at the end.

Speaking of 2000s movies, did anybody see Mirrors (2008)? The one with Kiefer Sutherland?

Totally unsettled me when I saw it back in high school. I couldn't even bear to look at my rearview mirror after I left the theater.

Then I watched it again in college and thought, "Eh. It's decent."

TomNook posted...

I am surprised The VVitch has made it this far. I know it's well received critically, but its audience score and imdb score are very unimpressive, so I figured it would translate that way here.

Suprak the Stud posted...

Im also interested in everyones write ups because I am surprised that people are surprised that it beat out Lighthouse. I guess I am a little surprised that both made top ten because I thought wed be very split on both of these and expected them right around 15 or so.

I'm also stunned that The VVitch has survived this long. Totally expected it to be more polarizing with a spread of Top 5 and Bottom 5 rankings. It feels like I'm the only one who hates it (and Eggers' style in general. This guy just isn't for me).

Lightning Strikes posted...

In the specific case of The VVitch, when it released it got hit with low audience scores because people felt the marketing was misleading. After that initial wave though, word of mouth was very, very strong and it stuck around in the box office charts for ages as a result.

Very true. Back in mid-2016 all my horror-loving friends couldn't stop raving about it. I literally couldn't escape the word of mouth. Even when I met Thomas Olde Heuvelt (the guy who wrote HEX) at a writers conference, the first words out of his mouth after signing a book for me were, "Have you seen The VVitch yet?"

Strife2 posted...

Talk about a game whose story fell off a cliff...God I wanted to like that game so much. Still do, but Berseria punts it in the balls. Goes to show how you have to stick the landing.

Haven't played Arise, but Berseria is a great example of a story that commits to its dark premise and nails the landing.

2, 3, 5, 8, 14, 30

thesmark posted...

I'll guess Midsommar

I have #1, #3, #5, #7, #9 and #11 left

Play the lottery tomorrow and only select odd numbers.

Hookshot

Question...

So I "obtained" the first ABCs collection, and there were no subtitles in the first short film when the woman spoke Spanish(?). Was that a deliberate artistic choice, or do I need to obtain another version of the movie collection that has subtitles?

Kenri posted...

Amnesia works great if the plot is built around it, but it's incredibly stupid when it's just thrown in as cheap drama or as a plot device. I associate the latter more with, like, serial television than video games though.

Good call. 24 had a bad amnesia subplot in Season 1 that immediately jumps to mind.

Ah, yes, another reminder to get my ass in gear with my Shadow Hearts games.

Suprak the Stud posted...

FFD, red, inviso and myself showing up to the rankings topic to deny Babadook a surefire top five placing:

https://images.app.goo.gl/LufobwGxsXoG8F9w5

Now head down to the basement and put water in Buck Nasty's Mama's bowl.

Espeon posted...

At this point, every time my top two survive elimination, I breathe a sigh of relief.

My #2 is still alive, but I'm rooting harder for my #3 and #5 to stay alive.

Bettors were the ones feeling grief as the house cleaned up on The Babadook.

Vegas Odds on #6:
+500: Train to Busan (2016)
+750: It Follows (2014)
+750: The VVitch: A New-England Folktale (2015)
+750: Midsommar (2019)
+2000: Get Out (2017)
+2500: Hereditary (2018)

Leaderboard:
jcgamer107 $4400 (Halloween 2000, Sinister 200, You're Next 700, A Quiet Place 1500)
wallmasterz $3500 (Don't Breathe 2000, A Quiet Place 1500)
BetrayedTangy $3250 (Insidious 300, Sinister 200, Don't Breathe 2000, Split 750)
Inviso/Espeon/Blaziken $2750 (Creep 250, Don't Breathe 2000, Happy Death Day 500)
Suprak $2000 (Don't Breathe 2000)
Corrik $700 (You're Next 700)
rockus $500 (Happy Death Day 500)
Lightning $500 (Happy Death Day 500)

Paratroopa1 posted...

I am a little more 'amnesia again?' when it comes to it applying to other characters vs the main character (which is almost always to serve some sort of mechanical function that has a purpose), but even then it often leads to pretty fun mysteries.

KamikazePotato posted...

Yeah I do think amnesia works best when it's with the main character. Disco Elysium, Planescape Torment, and The House in Fata Morgana have their entire plots centered around waking up with lost memories, and those are three of the best game stories ever constructed. (Also not a spoiler to mention those because it's made clear from the beginning)

That's a great point. The more central the character is, the stronger the amnesia impact is. Fata Morgana only works because of the amnesia (I haven't played the other two yet).

I appreciate you not dropping spoilers. I'm sure my backlog includes a few games with amnesia in them.

Amnesia is done exceptionally well in games like Silent Hill 2 and Xenogears. Other times, it's just an overused plot device.

ChaosTonyV4 posted...

I wouldnt say I hate it, but when games have inconsistent death states, thats when I get annoyed.

Like sometimes reducing a characters HP to zero triggers a cutscene where they die, but others trigger a cutscene where they escape wounded.

Just trigger the cutscene before the HP bar is empty, and dont animate an in-battle death and make them take a knee (I love when JRPGs do this, then you are prepared to watch them escape) lol.

This is a good one. It really cheats the player and diminishes the impact of the story. The "I just fought and killed this guy so he can escape" Syndrome.

Leonhart4 posted...

You also have the hero who becomes a villain and instantly becomes ten times stronger than he was before, or the powerful villain who becomes a hero and immediately becomes completely average (and dies 90% of the time).

Like how Magus goes from having 6666 HP as a boss, then has HP in the hundreds when he joins you? Yeah, this one drives me nuts.

Writeups due by Tuesday?

I may be able to swing this over the long weekend.

Bettors were too busy throwing themselves into woodchippers to bother wagering on Tucker & Dale, so the house wins!

Vegas Odds on #7:
+500: Train to Busan (2016)
+800: The VVitch: A New-England Folktale (2015)
+800: Midsommar (2019)
+1000: It Follows (2014)
+1000: The Babadook (2014)
+2500: Get Out (2017)
+3000: Hereditary (2018)

Leaderboard:
jcgamer107 $4400 (Halloween 2000, Sinister 200, You're Next 700, A Quiet Place 1500)
wallmasterz $3500 (Don't Breathe 2000, A Quiet Place 1500)
BetrayedTangy $3250 (Insidious 300, Sinister 200, Don't Breathe 2000, Split 750)
Inviso/Espeon/Blaziken $2750 (Creep 250, Don't Breathe 2000, Happy Death Day 500)
Suprak $2000 (Don't Breathe 2000)
Corrik $700 (You're Next 700)
rockus $500 (Happy Death Day 500)
Lightning $500 (Happy Death Day 500)

Inviso posted...

I'm honestly surprised it lasted as long as it did.

Same. It was a true Cinderella (I expected it to drop somewhere around #18), and I'm gonna miss rooting for it to hang on.

Strife2 posted...

I remember a Zero Punctuation episode where Yahtzee saw that sort of thing (Dante from DMC I think), and went, "Gee, it would be fun if I was allowed to do all that stuff during gameplay!"

Ahhh, that's perfect!

FFDragon posted...

It's my 28 (and 25) still on the board.

End my suffering Snake, I beg you.

The greatest horror is ourselves.

Ah, but wouldn't it be sweet to have one of those land at #6? Spoiling a movie's chance at the Top 5 is worth the additional couple days of torture IMO.

Dissenting voices get too loud for A Quiet Place, and wallmasterz and jcgamer make some noise on the leaderboard.

Vegas Odds on #8:
+750: Tucker & Dale vs. Evil (2010)
+750: Train to Busan (2016)
+1000: The VVitch: A New-England Folktale (2015)
+1000: Midsommar (2019)
+1250: It Follows (2014)
+1500: The Babadook (2014)
+3000: Get Out (2017)
+4000: Hereditary (2018)

Leaderboard:
jcgamer107 $4400 (Halloween 2000, Sinister 200, You're Next 700, A Quiet Place 1500)
wallmasterz $3500 (Don't Breathe 2000, A Quiet Place 1500)
BetrayedTangy $3250 (Insidious 300, Sinister 200, Don't Breathe 2000, Split 750)
Inviso/Espeon/Blaziken $2750 (Creep 250, Don't Breathe 2000, Happy Death Day 500)
Suprak $2000 (Don't Breathe 2000)
Corrik $700 (You're Next 700)
rockus $500 (Happy Death Day 500)
Lightning $500 (Happy Death Day 500)

Another thing I've been thinking about is the inverse of the "Unstoppable Hero Until There's a Cutscene."

You also have the "Grounded Hero Until There's a Cutscene." Perfect example would be Snake in MGS: The Twin Snakes. During gameplay, the most physically impressive thing he can do is roll around. But when cutscenes hit, he's capable of jumping off a fired missile in a Matrix-esque display of timing, balance, and athleticism.

MZero posted...

at that point Seymour is right there so they would have to fight those guys while worrying about Seymour, who takes the whole party to deal with. Also it's a bigger group, so it's quite a bit different than those little groups you fight on the way

Fair point, but my problem with it is the fact that Tidus sees a gun and acts like he hasn't already been shot by several consecutive enemies.

thesmark posted...

You would imagine so assuming the tone, curious what movie you're talking about; sounds like Temple of Doom, which I would not consider horror but I get your point.

Bingo.

Temple of Doom has a TON of horror tropes and was directed by a man who directed one of the biggest horror blockbusters of all-time (Jaws), yet very few people consider ToD a horror movie because of its action/adventure elements and the franchise it belongs to.

Meanwhile, many Indiana Jones fans criticize ToD for being different from the other movies in the franchise. The reason why it feels so different is because it shares plenty of common ground with cult and haunted house movies.

7.9/10

Extra 0.9 for the hilariously bad dialogue

Here's something to think about... Would a movie containing ALL of the following be considered horror?

• A cursed town
• Heroes seeking refuge in a haunted building
• Jump scares
• An underground cult
• Drinking blood
• Voodoo magic
• Human sacrifice
• Body horror--specifically people's internal organs being ripped from their body
• People eating brains
• Rooms infested with exotic bugs
• Magical objects that, if obtained by the cult, could revive a demon god

v_charon posted...

I mean the main idea of a horror film, at least in my eyes, is to be frightening. Whether you achieve that that through tension building, unsettling mood or setting, jump scares or a presence of some sort that's an antagonist I really feel it has to be there in some way. The closest The Lighthouse really comes to that is with the isolation factor in the setting, but that doesn't necessarily make a horror film. Castaway isn't a horror film.

"Frightening" is subjective though. That's where it gets tricky. Very few movies on our list frightened me personally, but I'd consider all of them horror films. Some are straight up horror (Halloween, Terrifier, etc.) while others might have horror as their second or third genre (Green Room, The Purge), but I would still consider them horror because they contain horror tropes.

I know Wikipedia is obviously subject to public edits and I haven't gone through all the films individually, but checking out The Lighthouse's page it isn't even listed as a horror film completely. There's even some debate whether or not it's actually just a thriller or perhaps a survival film, or a character study as it says there. But yeah, I mean that's the main element of horror to me; to be frightened by it. If it's not going to do that then I'm not sure how it can really classify itself as part of the genre.

It did get nominated for a Bram Stoker Award, which is the highest award in the horror community.

Johnbobb posted...

ok so first off, everyone in the Academy is a fuckin coward and not giving even nominations to Dafoe, Pattinson, or the cinematography or set design is despicable

so I get someone not being taken by this movie as much as I am. This movie appealed to me in every way, from the two best-in-their-careers performances of the leads to the dark paranoia devolving into supernatural horror to the goddamn incredible cinematography in what was easily the best use of black and white I've personally seen in a movie, emphasizing the overwhelming power of the light in contrast to not only the drabby darkness of the lighthouse and cliffside but also the inherent darkness that comes from doing dirty blue-color work in weathered conditions. Aside from the comments about being boring (which I just for the life of me cannot imagine being bored with the sheer amount of constant batshit insanity going on at all times) the comment that caught me off guard the most was

because, sure, you're not entirely wrong. Perhaps you could do a 20-minute short film about two guys in a Lighthouse going insane. Sure. But to limit to that misses out on the subtle dominance Dafoe imparts, the drawing out of the madness, the dread of emotional and sexual repression, the homoeroticism, the paranoia over lighthouse custom, the mystery of the identities of the competing leads, the betrayal and deceit, the suggestion of the supernatural through the mermaid, the weather seemingly driven by an ungodly force, and the overwhelming power of the light itself, the delicate balance between adoration and contempt when forced into close quarters with someone over time, and on and on.

And then that last shot, the gruesome violence of it, but also the tranquil weather around it and the way the cliffside and lighthouse itself are asserting themselves as the true dominance over the man who thought he could take it for himself and just goddamn this film is nothing short of a fuckin masterpiece

Thought I didn't like The Lighthouse, your input here was awesome. Had the movie clicked with me, I probably would've gone nuts over all these great details.

When it comes to watching movies, I have something like a "Hierarchy of Needs" that needs to be fulfilled. Before I can appreciate finer details, symbolism, etc., I first need to satisfy my need for an engrossing plot, tight pacing, and intriguing characters. The Lighthouse didn't meet those basic needs for me, so I wasn't as receptive to the things you mentioned.

v_charon posted...

Like I said with Creep, that movie and The Lighthouse are hard for me to critique. For Lighthouse, I mean the acting is phenomenal there's little debate about that I would think. But I was left missing the elements which I associate with horror. Those elements are ones I feel define the genre, and that if you remove them the film becomes lost without them.

What specific elements?

Inviso posted...

There's nothing extraordinary about their assholery to make them stand out as memorable horror movie characters. Likewise, they're never so aggressive assholish that I'm rooting for them to die a horrible death. They're just in that gray area that Survivor fans would call MORN (middle of the road negative), which is one of the worst ratings to me, because it's basically saying "you're not likable...but you're also not interesting enough for that unlikability to translate to being a fun character to root against".

Damn, I'm glad I read this post. "MORN" characters are something I see in a lot of stories nowadays, horror or otherwise (Jurassic World comes to mind). This might actually be my biggest problem with Split... Kevin was interesting, but everyone else was a total MORN.

Nobody guessed The Lighthouse, so Vegas stays sane...for now.

Vegas Odds on #9:
+750: Tucker & Dale vs. Evil (2010)
+750: Train to Busan (2016)
+1000: The VVitch: A New-England Folktale (2015)
+1000: Midsommar (2019)
+1250: It Follows (2014)
+1500: The Babadook (2014)
+1500: A Quiet Place (2018)
+3000: Get Out (2017)
+4000: Hereditary (2018)

Leaderboard:
BetrayedTangy $3250 (Insidious 300, Sinister 200, Don't Breathe 2000, Split 750)
jcgamer107 $2900 (Halloween 2000, Sinister 200, You're Next 700)
Inviso/Espeon/Blaziken $2750 (Creep 250, Don't Breathe 2000, Happy Death Day 500)
wallmasterz $2000 (Don't Breathe 2000)
Suprak $2000 (Don't Breathe 2000)
Corrik $700 (You're Next 700)
rockus $500 (Happy Death Day 500)
Lightning $500 (Happy Death Day 500)

Leafeon13N posted...

The movie was boring. The random weird things happening never evolved beyond just weird, they didn't have anything that made me any more invested in the happenings. Most everything made me want to go roll over in bed. I did once while watching.

Yeah, like I mentioned in my write-up, I tapped out after 40 minutes when I first tried watching this one back in 2019. Nothing about the movie grabbed me or made me curious about where the story was going. The performances are indeed top-notch, but I never found myself caring about either character. Halfway through the movie I looked at Pattison and thought, (in my Ivan Drago voice) "If he dies, he dies." And the rotten cherry on top was the murderously slow pace--like others said, this one should've been trimmed down. By a lot.

Looking back, I'm not sure why I ranked it so high at #24. I suppose some of Pattison's insanity rubbed off on me.

I didn't like The Lighthouse at all, but I never questioned its status as a horror movie. Isolation, insanity, curses, unreliable narrators, supernatural women conjured to satisfy lust... Those are the key ingredients used in Kubrick's The Shining.

squexa posted...

I've gotten quite sick of the "teens killing god" trope which is like 80% of all JRPGs

Much as I love some of those stories, you have a valid complaint. That cliche often gets overlooked because usually the force of antagonism is grounded at the start. It's not until much later that a god becomes the villain.

Bump

Batman
Oregon

BetrayedTangy posted...

It's all about what we personally find interesting. I hated Arrival for example, it was beautifully shot, yet I also found it to be incredibly up its own ass and a waste of a concept.

Yeah, I hear you. I typically don't enjoy "Slow Burns" but I loved watching Scorsese's overlong Silence because of the feudal Japan setting and the tense atmosphere the Jesuits found themselves in.

Someone recently told me they didn't like Ozark because it was too much of a Slow Burn, and I was like, "Really? Ozark? That show is fast-paced and gripping." But I could totally see why someone feels that way about it.

Inviso posted...

It's weird, because I went back and looked up our 90s horror ranking, and our top five was largely critical darlings (or an extremely influential film like Jacob's Ladder). You had Best Picture Silence of the Lamb as our winner, Best Actress Kathy Bates in Misery for third place, Best Picture nominee The Sixth Sense in 4th place. Throw in Se7en to round out the top five, and you have a list that's largely critically acclaimed, yet still, these are movies that were fun and interesting to watch, and they largely stand the test of time as cornerstones of American cinematic culture.

That's a solid Top 5 for 90s horror. Was Jurassic Park considered for the list? Aside from that and Scream, I can't think of any other standout 90s horror movies that might warrant a spot among those five.

But then you look at this modern selection, and it's just a stark contrast. I'd argue that 5-6 of these top ten are "artsy", and 2-3 (there's a swing movie between the two tiers) are "mainstream" artsy (which is the category I'd consider several of those films from the 90s list). And I look at those films, and I'm trying to think of memorable "moments" or "characters" or anything that makes them stand out, and there's really only one thing across 5.5 movies, in my opinion. I genuinely keep forgetting that Babadook is even on this list, and it wasn't until writing this paragraph that I even remembered that Babadook is supposed to be a monster and should therefore be memorable for that aspect alone.

Thought I didn't hate The Babadook, I agree it's forgettable compared to several other movies in our Top 10. The monster itself is memorable, as are the parent/child horror themes at play, but none of the movie's individual moments or scenes burn hot in my memory.

It just feels like a shift the same way the Oscars shifted. The 90s and 00s still felt like the awards were about picking the best films, but the films that reached those heights still had mainstream appeal. But now it feels like, with so many movies out there and so many streaming options, the horror genre is taking a swing into the same vein as the Oscars, picking films for artistic purposes, rather than mainstream appeal.

For whatever reason, people who hand out awards tend to value movies that are thematically strong. While theme is an important aspect of story, I personally don't believe that thematic brilliance is enough to excuse things like dull characters, nonexistent plots, and sludgy pacing. The ideal story is one that's both intelligent and entertaining, something that appeals to the frontal lobe as well as the brainstem.

Yes

BetrayedTangy posted...

Yeah I'd say the Eggers and Aster movies (as well as Girl Walks Home Alone) are the only ones I'd classify as artsy. But even Hereditary has enough classic horror tropes to drift away from it a little.

I'd add The Babadook to your list, but otherwise I agree.

Johnbobb posted...

excellent top 10, good job board 8

I love that Tucker/Dale and Train to Busan made such a deep run. Hell, a week ago I would've been happy to see both sneak into the Top 15. At this point, everything is gravy.