Lurker > s0nicfan

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

tennisdude818 posted...

They don't. But if writing a check today would mean no more affirmative action, identity politics, or race card BS, who do I make the check out to?

This. I'd love to know what that dollar amount is to make everything squar, but I'm willing to bet the demand would change to something like "perpetual reparations, until <impossible condition here>"
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

I'm still betting on Launch getting in. It'd be a rare DB rep, ArcSys loves their stance dancers, and she's be a unique addition to the roster.

EDIT: If power differences are a problem, maybe Arale instead?
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Medussa posted...

1) you lost all credibility when you tried to pass that first steaming pile off as science.
2) NCBI never ever, not even once, posts things from biased sources? or things that other NBCI studies disagree with?

1. The first was based on a quick google search. I knew the evidence was out there, I was just looking for a link. I had no idea they were a group with an agenda, which is why I even bothered looking a second time.

2. If you want to just disagree for the sake of it, fine, but you can't counter a study with "I don't like it" and then pretend your worldview is completely 100% correct and everyone should follow it.

EDIT: And if there's all this counter-evidence, provide it or fuck off. Otherwise your argument is based on nothing but your own vapid sense of self-importance.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Medussa posted...

it draws it's conclusions not from any people, but from other studies? and then, as far as I can see, not even cite which ones?

we already know one such researcher manipulated his data to sell his beliefs, and his name is all over the references. So, yeah, I'm not at all convinced this isn't misleading as well.

*shrugs* I was fine finding a different source because you didn't like the bias that the first host had, but if you're not going to accept studies from the NCBI (a well-respected branch of the NIH) either then no study is going to satisfy you. Feel free to believe whatever you want, just don't try claiming it's based on any science.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Sylph posted...

I remember that study about the schizophrenia medicine, and it wasn't even using actual trans patients. It was some whack job that got a confused patient, misidentified the problem, and then 'cured' it.

Oh, I don't remember actually arguing the point of being specifically a woman to you. I legally and socially am a woman, and I don't need internet validation to give me warm and fuzzies.

Now try to get me a study that tests how trans people do in a scenario where they aren't treated like shit, and get back to me. All your evidence points to is that at least 40% of trans women live in situations that are pretty awful at points.

If you happen to have some kind of cross-examination of the schizo study I'd love to see it, because I have no problem updating my opinions based on new science. I also don't expect to change your mind, nor would I want to, as you're free to believe you are whatever you think. Internet validation isn't going to give you warm fuzzies, but it also won't give you a functional womb.

As for your last point, if you want to offer a counter-study that isolates for those conditions feel free to provide one. I've provided evidence and at this point it's not my job to provide a perpetual stream of studies you're just going to ignore. In a real debate, when faced with real evidence, you either debunk it directly, or provide something of equal or greater validity.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Glass_Phantom posted...

The American College of Pediatricians isn't a scientific journal

I realized that mistake when someone else pointed it out. I then provided evidence from another source that comes to the same conclusion:

s0nicfan posted...

How about this one?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697020/

The types of modulating influences that are known from the fields of developmental psychology and family dynamics have therapeutic implications for GID. As children with GID only rarely go on to have permanent transsexualism, irreversible physical interventions are clearly not indicated until after the individual’s psychosexual development ist complete.

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

averagejoel posted...

s0nicfan posted...

I accept that you exist, but if you want me to believe in science, you must also accept that anecdotal evidence is never going to be more compelling than large N carefully validated studies. You can believe what you want about yourself, but your existence alone does not overcome evidence simply because you will it.

what studies are you referring to, and what specifically about her lived experience do they contradict?

I was referring to studies that show that a mtf brain is objectively not the same as a woman's brain, as well as the study that showed (again, small sample size) that schizophrenia medication completely eliminates a person's desire to transition. I also alluded to the 40% suicide rate, of which there are many studies, and which still stays an order of magnitude above the national average even if only looking at "passing" individuals.

As for her lived experiences, her telling me that she is a woman because she says so contradicts the evidence. Her personal experience having a good transition is also not evidence that the 40% suicide rate would go away if we all just "accepted it" and it certainly doesn't turn valid science into flat earth nonsense.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Medussa posted...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_College_of_Pediatricians

l o fucking l

How about this one?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2697020/

The types of modulating influences that are known from the fields of developmental psychology and family dynamics have therapeutic implications for GID. As children with GID only rarely go on to have permanent transsexualism, irreversible physical interventions are clearly not indicated until after the individual’s psychosexual development ist complete.

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Sylph posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Oh fuck off. I actually bothered to read the study and educate myself on the subject, rather than just accept "my side's" arguments as doctrine. Don't pull that helping children bullshit. You know what helps? A study (small sample size) was done that showed that schizophrenia medication completely removed trans' individuals desire to be the opposite sex within a few days. Why aren't we funding a larger study to see if the results can be generalized? With a 40% suicide rate, that may be by far the best way to save lives.

It's not dislike of the subject. I have no problem admitting 0.3% of the population is trans, and that's its a real condition. What I DO dislike is being told it's normal, we should celebrate it, and rather than continue to research treatment methods we should just assume the suicide rate is due entirely to social stigma (even though it doesn't go down in passing individuals) and will "go away" if we all believe hard enough. I'm sick of being told the left is the party of science while at the same time being told by the same people that we should make sweeping changes as a society when the science isn't there.

I'm not accepting a side's arguments as my own. I made my own. I am a trans woman, and I went through life as a child that knew they wanted to transition from a young age. I know you can put up study after study of bullshit for your arguments.

The world had to go through the same adventures when it was trying to prove that the world was not flat, or that the universe didn't revolve around it. Do you know how many random experts popped up defending those views? It took centuries for no reason. And you know what, that is what is happening now.

Being trans is not inherently damaging. It doesn't disable you, and it doesn't have to reduce your quality of life. Any problems that arise are almost entirely caused by knee jerk reactions by ideologies that are intolerant of deviation from their viewpoints. Children don't hate. Hate is taught. Those children wouldn't have any problem with someone changing gender, I know because I was in elementary school and I had no trouble doing that same thing even without the teacher's help.

I accept that you exist, but if you want me to believe in science, you must also accept that anecdotal evidence is never going to be more compelling than large N carefully validated studies. You can believe what you want about yourself, but your existence alone does not overcome evidence simply because you will it.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Medussa posted...

darkjedilink posted...

It's literally wrong to say 'boy body, girl brain.'

And kids aren't trans, since almost every case of dysmorphia goes away after puberty ends.

still waiting for you to (even attempt to) prove that assertion.

I'll do it for him:
https://www.acpeds.org/the-college-speaks/position-statements/gender-dysphoria-in-children

This means that at least 72 percent of what accounts for transsexualism in one twin and not in the other occurs after birth and is not biological. Such a high discordance rate among identical twins proves that no one is born pre-determined to have gender dysphoria let alone pre-determined to identify as transgender or transsexual. This is consistent with the dramatic rates of resolution of gender dysphoria documented among children when they are not encouraged to impersonate the opposite sex. The low concordance rate also supports the theory that persistent GD is dues predominantly to the impact of non-shared environmental influences upon certain biologically vulnerable children. To be clear, twin studies alone establish that the “alternative perspective” of an “innate gender identity” arising from prenatally “feminized” or “masculinized” brains trapped in the wrong body is in fact an ideological belief that has no basis in rigorous science.

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Sylph posted...

s0nicfan posted...

The Deadpool posted...

There are differences AND similarities. "Boy body with girl brain" is an oversimplification, but not outright incorrect.

Teaching young kids that it is okay to be whatever they are isn't a negative.

But teaching kids that what they are is something they aren't IS a negative. The study doesn't affirm that a mtf kid is a "girl brain in a boy body", but all the reporting on that study implied that was the case. All the study confirms is that a mtf brain is aberrant. I'm not suggesting you teach kids they're a freak or anything, but you don't tell a kid in a wheelchair they're the same as every other kid and then not build any ramps. You tell them that it's okay to be different, because they already know they're different, and then find ways to help them fit into society.

Oh yeah, and we could make the same arguments for left-handed people as well. The thing is, all these things can be taught and adapted to, and they don't have to be a problem. But it does require that people stop taking the existence of trans as this crazy thing to be stamped out, ostracized and litigated into obscurity.

Stop trying to rationalize your dislike of the subject. It is clear that you aren't interested in helping children, you just want to make them intolerant of differences as well.

Oh fuck off. I actually bothered to read the study and educate myself on the subject, rather than just accept "my side's" arguments as doctrine. Don't pull that helping children bullshit. You know what helps? A study (small sample size) was done that showed that schizophrenia medication completely removed trans' individuals desire to be the opposite sex within a few days. Why aren't we funding a larger study to see if the results can be generalized? With a 40% suicide rate, that may be by far the best way to save lives.

It's not dislike of the subject. I have no problem admitting 0.3% of the population is trans, and that's its a real condition. What I DO dislike is being told it's normal, we should celebrate it, and rather than continue to research treatment methods we should just assume the suicide rate is due entirely to social stigma (even though it doesn't go down in passing individuals) and will "go away" if we all believe hard enough. I'm sick of being told the left is the party of science while at the same time being told by the same people that we should make sweeping changes as a society when the science isn't there.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

The Deadpool posted...

There are differences AND similarities. "Boy body with girl brain" is an oversimplification, but not outright incorrect.

Teaching young kids that it is okay to be whatever they are isn't a negative.

But teaching kids that what they are is something they aren't IS a negative. The study doesn't affirm that a mtf kid is a "girl brain in a boy body", but all the reporting on that study implied that was the case. All the study confirms is that a mtf brain is aberrant. I'm not suggesting you teach kids they're a freak or anything, but you don't tell a kid in a wheelchair they're the same as every other kid and then not build any ramps. You tell them that it's okay to be different, because they already know they're different, and then find ways to help them fit into society.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Yes, because intent matters. That's why we have manslaughter, second degree murder, and first degree murder. When it comes time to look at punishment, you need to consider whether someone who just committed a crime against someone is likely to do so again, and if the whole basis of the crime was "that person was <race>" then the liklihood is higher.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

I assume what he means is that it's not going to be filled with cameos, or act as a pseudo JL movie (like how Civil War was basically an Avengers movie)
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

chill02 posted...

historians do not pursue Lu Bu

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Mark McGuire and Barry Bonds?
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Sayoria posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Sayoria posted...

How is bringing awareness promoting it?

There's a difference between "transgenderism is a thing some people are" and "transgenderism is a mental disorder that effects roughly 0.3% of the population"

That's still not forcing dresses onto boys and buzzcuts onto girls. It's still a true fact and the statistical approach wouldn't work for youth of that age.

You asked what the difference was between awareness and promotion. Forcing dresses onto boys isn't either of those things, and you're nitpicking my semantics. You understand the point I'm trying to make, which is the surrounding context matters when you teach something.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Sayoria posted...

How is bringing awareness promoting it?

There's a difference between "transgenderism is a thing some people are" and "transgenderism is a mental disorder that effects roughly 0.3% of the population"
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

The Deadpool posted...

s0nicfan posted...

The problem is that "girl brain in a boy body" line, since we're talking about "settled science", is objectively false. fMRI studies were done (I think mayo clinic) where they showed they can clearly differentiate between a male and female brain in fMRI scans, but transperson's brains did not map to the brain patterns of their claimed gender.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-there-something-unique-about-the-transgender-brain/

What?

You should check out the actual study and not the various articles trying to spin the results. The study found that the trans brains were in fact different than the average for their birth sex, but still NOT a match for the opposite sex. They took "different from their birth sex" and spun it as "a trans person has the brain of the other sex. Settled science" and ran with it.

EDIT: Here's the actual study Scientific American was writing about:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022395610003250

Results
MtF transsexuals differed from both male and female controls bilaterally in the superior longitudinal fasciculus, the right anterior cingulum, the right forceps minor, and the right corticospinal tract.

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Medz2017 posted...

s0nicfan posted...

The problem is that "girl brain in a boy body" line, since we're talking about "settled science", is objectively false. fMRI studies were done (I think mayo clinic) where they showed they can clearly differentiate between a male and female brain in fMRI scans, but transperson's brains did not map to the brain patterns of their claimed gender.

Would it be appropriate to teach that in Kindergarten?

Moreso than use an objectively wrong analogy to convince them it's normal.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

The problem is that "girl brain in a boy body" line, since we're talking about "settled science", is objectively false. fMRI studies were done (I think mayo clinic) where they showed they can clearly differentiate between a male and female brain in fMRI scans, but transperson's brains did not map to the brain patterns of their claimed gender.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

creativerealms posted...

s0nicfan posted...

Neither are a real thing, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

They are real just misused. You are seriously telling me that people can't have irrational fears about Christianity or Islam?

As far as I'm aware, no body of psychological research formally recognizes the irrational fear of an idea or set of ideas/concepts as a real thing.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Give us the beta already!
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

DreadedWave posted...

s0nicfan posted...

I forgot that there are never two sides to a position that's still hotly debated, only "right" and "bigot"

It's "hotly debated" in the sense that global warming is "hotly debated" experts say gender dysphoria is a thing and conservatives cover their ears and go "LALALALALALALALA"

I was thinking more the issue of keeping it out of the agenda so parents didn't know it was going to be taught. Also teaching any form of sex ed to a kindergartener. Also whether a kindergartener is old enough to go through any form of transition. I'm not debating that GD exists, but there's a LOT about this story that's really questionable.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

OpheliaAdenade posted...

like 30 minutes before you're supposed to be off the clock everything turns to shit?! >:U I think people are doing it on purpose.

Probably a combination of people getting tired/distracted/hurried because their own shifts are ending soon, and the combined set of small screwups snowballing into bigger issues.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Neither are a real thing, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

North korea has a propaganda cartoon with animals to teach kids that America is bad. I forget what it's called.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Remember AOL Keyword: Slingo?
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

DreadedWave posted...

s0nicfan posted...

This is like when the catholic church moved baptisms from adulthood to babies so they could snag people before they had a voice in the matter. It reeks of indoctrination.

Bastards, teaching children to be accepting. Not on my watch!

Forgive my lord, for I have sinned. How many Hail Caitlyns must I say to atone? I forgot that there are never two sides to a position that's still hotly debated, only "right" and "bigot"
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

averagejoel posted...

s0nicfan posted...

averagejoel posted...

my daughter, Pumice, says she worries that adults often pretend their kids said things in order to add an emotional appeal to otherwise nonexistent points

Your daughter may be stoned

whoosh

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumice

"Pumice stones" are often used in beauty salons during the pedicure process to remove dry and excess skin from the bottom of the foot as well as calluses.

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

averagejoel posted...

my daughter, Pumice, says she worries that adults often pretend their kids said things in order to add an emotional appeal to otherwise nonexistent points

Your daughter may be stoned
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Dustin1280 posted...

Horus_Leftfield posted...

Earlier you teach kids not to hate the better

Not when they aren't capable of understanding the topic at hand.

It's like trying to teach a kindergartner calculas

More like chemistry. You can't permanently disfigure yourself with calculus if you don't know what you're doing.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

This is like when the catholic church moved baptisms from adulthood to babies so they could snag people before they had a voice in the matter. It reeks of indoctrination.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Asherlee10 posted...

Ricemills posted...

shit like this only works on 3rd world countries where the people are fool enough to be tricked by politicians imaging themselves as a down-to-earth candidate.

I honestly think the Bushes are down to earth. I have worked as a consultant for the Bush Foundation for about 3 years now and all the Bushes I've met genuinely care about this country and the people. They just aren't great politicians.

Jeb, in particular, was incredibly genuine when I met him the first time and managed to remember some details about the conversation I had with him the second time I spoke with him.

Jeb is the nice but kind of slow guy you want to wave at when you see him at IHOP every weekend getting the same thing he always gets. How he ended up in politics is beyond me, because he's clearly not cut out for it.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Samsung phones explode on their own terms. They're not going to let something like gravity dictate when and where they burst into flames.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Friendly reminder that Jeb keeps a pocket full of turtles on him at all times

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

I'll just play my actual NES instead
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Kineth posted...

Amazing how there are clear white supremacist groups but you don't get stories of the soundbytes of what they say so that they can be used to dissect and judge a whole group of people based on mean words said by a member of the staff and not a leader.

You don't need a soundbite to know a white supremacist group is bad. People still don't realize blm has been taken over by bigots and opportunists.That's the difference.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

OpheliaAdenade posted...

s0nicfan posted...

burger king coke (seriously, WTF is in it) > real sugar pepsi once you get used to it > fountain coke > glass bottle coke > canned pepsi > glass bottle pepsi > bottled pepsi > canned coke > bottled coke > real sugar pepsi the first time you drink it

burger king coke tastes different? :U

Burger King and McDonalds each have proprietary blends of coke due to some special deal between them.
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

The only people I'd allow to do a joker Origin movie are Bruce Timm or Christopher Nolan off his leash (the Nolan that gave us Memento)
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

burger king coke (seriously, WTF is in it) > real sugar pepsi once you get used to it > fountain coke > glass bottle coke > canned pepsi > glass bottle pepsi > bottled pepsi > canned coke > bottled coke > real sugar pepsi the first time you drink it
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

voldothegr8 posted...

A man can only get so erect.

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

itachi15243 posted...

darkjedilink posted...

Samurontai posted...

Consider this question

Where in the communistic ideology does it state that a group of people must be destroyed because a certain race is superior?

Not a race, but a class. Tomato, tomahto.

Rich is not a protected class.

And communism doesn't call for their death, it calls for them to share all their money. Pretty big difference from Nazis killing the Jewish for being Jewish

And how does one "seize the means of production" from individuals who don't want to give it up?
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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Damn_Underscore posted...

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz

Balrog0 posted...

so she is running in 2020

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"History Is Much Like An Endless Waltz. The Three Beats Of War, Peace And Revolution Continue On Forever." - Gundam Wing: Endless Waltz