Lurker > Lopen

Kiryu actually disarms people all the time are you paying any attention

I wouldn't have yelled at you if he was against Tira and you said he disarmed her.
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The facts are Juliet fights some impressive things, but the whole worldsetting comes off as kinda jokey and the actual stuff she is doing comes off as kinda tame. Like, maybe you're just posting weak clips but like, yeah, it's kinda like trying to hype Wander just cause he kills 90000 lb statues. Her actual stuff doesn't really compare to the reflexes speed and power Kiryu is showing.

All I'm really sold on is the magic chainsaw being hella dangerous and having a ton of destructive power which isn't all that big a deal if it's likely getting disarmed anyway.
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Wander fights things more impressive than either. I guess he'd wreck here right.
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I'm just stating facts. Something you've done very little of here. But it's working for you cause people don't know the characters well so good job
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I watched the clip but ok. Not the most ridiculous claim you've made in this topic to be sure.
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Actually pretty much moves at motorcycle speed but nice picking the start point of that clip to make it seem faster than it is
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Yeah on Mt Koltz I think I'm giving the edge to the flying pink rage monster. Just plays to her strengths a lot more, and no one's really equipped to deal with her.

Team Terra
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The problem with Juliet is a lot of her potential is in the destructive power of her chainsaw. As far as actual technique and speed displayed she's not really better than a lot of mooks Kiryu clowns and effortlessly disarms. I'd really put that agent that KJH linked as more impressive looking in a fight, myself.
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I don't think Juliet is getting much damage on Kiryu anyway. Between opening with his 9mm, Kirby doing some damage and taking star soul power, and his heavy disarm based style meshing well against her reckless attacks, I think him getting a flawless victory on her isn't out of the question.
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Can Lightning actually get to Terra

I mean unnerfed permatrance Terra is probably flying nonstop and throwing spells. I don't give Terra a ton of respect normally but in this form I'm not sure she can be stopped.
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Feel like Geese is getting a lot of hype based on Word of God and general aura here. Geese doesn't touch Kiryu in what he actually does.
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No I'm saying she'll use her dangerous high damage moves when it makes a vague amount of sense to do so and not at random like you do while button mashing
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There are plenty of moves that have a random chance to do things, and plenty that don't. Sometimes swapping personalities and hurting yourself is worth it to maximize damage or pressure on the opponent. It's risk reward not ' why is Tira doing this I didn't ask for this' you asked for it when you did the move.
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I'm not saying Tira winning Evo makes her a better fighter in this fight I'm saying she's not an incompetent goof who randomly damages herself and stuns herself every few seconds because you have no idea how to play her.
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Completely random implies that it's like Smash Bros banana slipping and way more frequent than it is. It's not. Hurting yourself is a choice. Having a chance to stun yourself from those hits is a choice. It depends on the moves you use. If you just mash out moves willy nilly yeah you're not going to have a good time.
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GANON1025 posted...

I think Crono beats Tira, Kirby can beat Crono. The problem comes with Kirby needed to defeat or massively injure Juliet for Kiryu to be able to clean up the rest.

I think Kirby only needs to run out starpower and get some basic amount of damage on her for Kiryu to win. If he disarms her chainsaw she has basically nothing, and his gun will be super useful here vs Geese to get some opening damage on him for the edge.
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You've never heard me say that. I said he's bad in this type of fight because knowing how to fight a lovecraftian monster doesn't automatically make you good in a duel and a lot of Crono's advantages are mitigated in this environment and Tira's accentuated

Also speaking as a Tira main (to the surprise of no one) Tira doing ' dumb moves ' is generally a choice. You do know she won EVO right. She's not unusable just because you're bad.
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I'm just saying it's actually hard to disarm someone. It should generally be assumed they're not being disarmed unless there's a good reason for it, and the weapon being something you think is stupid isn't a good reason.

Moreso when their weapon is big
Moreso when their weapon is generally two handed
Moreso when the guy disarming doesn't use a style that seems conducive to disarming or fight humans much at all or disarm anyone ever

It's just a really dumb argument. Arguably worse than the one where DC claimed Kirby would rush in when the running theme in his game is finding weak points or openings and exploiting them

The dehype is just really irritating
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FFDragon posted...

Like half of her strikes have her thrusting one-handed with that thing, just because she holds it with two hands at rest doesn't mean she's deathgripping it at all times.

And so? Crono is going to see those points where she's one handing it despite being a guy who has very little 1v1 experience and generally fighting monsters rather than armed humans. He does this despite showing no disarm cred whatsoever in game and Tira's fighting style being basically random looking to even guys generally fighting in this type of fight.

Get real.
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I mean in her canon losses it was always the other guy being better. It wasn't 'Tira had the advantage and then she did something dumb.' This narrative you're pushing where she's a joke fighter who always defeats herself is simply one that does not exist in the game. It'd be like trying to claim Crono is some kid with a mop in the beginning of the game and gets no training whatsoever so Tira has to just beat a kid with a bladed mop.

She does weird stuff but it generally confuses the opponent more than it seriously injures her. It's tactical.
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Also Tira is probably smarter than most of the cast. Her role in the story is generally a manipulator.

Crazy yes stupid no.
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Like really the only one who should be argued to be disarmed is Juliet here. Kiryu is the only guy here with legit disarm cred and Juliet's attack style is pretty reckless with openings easily seen for a guy who looks for these things

And if that happens Kiryu potentially has the chainsaw to use against Geese for whatever that's worth.
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It's only unwieldy if it appears unwieldy. She clearly handles it fine.

It's always more difficult to disarm a larger two handed weapon by default. Reason being the weapon is heavier and has more grip on it. Crono could potentially do it if the disarm cred came from literally anywhere but Crono has never shown any aptitude for disarming so it's not something any random sword guy could do.

I mean say Crono wins if you want but don't claim Tira can't even hold onto her bloody weapon when there's no evidence she can't
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What.

Tira's hula hoop seems like a really difficult weapon to disarm to me. Like it's two handed which automatically makes it tougher and it's in a weird position relative to her body to wedge your sword in. It'd be a hell of a lot easier to just stab at her.
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I dunno about this I feel like Spekkio is basically going easy on you for teaching purposes there. Especially considering Crono ' long ass cast animation
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It's only a gameplay mechanic in the sense that say, being able to cast Ultima as a mage in a Final Fantasy game is a gameplay mechanic.

Like that's literally Kirby's lore-- his super power if you will. He inhales something and becomes a master of it. You're trying to argue the basis for his character is gameplay mechanics. Dumb.
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At their core, the gameplay of Kirby games, for boss fights, has always been

- Observe enemy while dodging them
- Find exploitable weakness in their attack pattern
- Hit them when they expose a weakness

In fact in the first Kirby game, you had no powers and that was your only mode of attack. You had to inhale certain attacks and spit them back at the opponent to do damage. You couldn't rush them down if you tried.

But yeah Kirby is a guy who rushes in and goes hard in melee against a heavily melee combatant, every time. He'd never pace himself in a 1v1 match, nor would he change his strategy for his opponent.
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The correct answer is Kirby is a prodigy

That's literally the basis for Kirby's character. He inhales a little beast thing who has a gimmick and he's instantly way better than they were at their gimmick.

Not too unlike Kiryu and fighting styles, minus the inhaling
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It's TELEGRAPHED in that if you're covering 10 yards with it you're spinning a while since she doesn't cover all that much horizontal distance per rotation, and it's not really all that fast.

I think she'd be better off just running at him and doing normal attacks.
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Hell yeah 2001.

Unfortunately my bracket was such an abomination that even if it pulls out the victory I won't do well, but hey, I can at least feel good about this one.
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1. That doesn't cover close to 10 yards
2. It's TELEGRAPHED Kirby can just dodge it
3. Even if Juliet gets hits on Kirby, Kirby can counter with his ninja teleport which activates on damage.
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It's more like Kirby opens with range cause he has no reason to close in with all his ranged attacks

Then Juliet doesn't come back with any sort of range

Then she does her soul power hype thing like some crazy invincible enemy out of a Kirby game and moving really fast and Kirby is like "oiii~" and trying to figure out a way to deal with an opponent who has just started being an overwhelming force. Of course he'll try to stall as he tries to figure her out at that point, and ninja teleports + ranged options + geese counters + floating give him a lot of tools to do that.

Like you're trying to paint Kirby as some sorta reckless barbarian in how he fights who will default to melee at all times. He's not. Stop playing Smash Bros and play actual Kirby games and realize how many ranged options he has and realize that him gaining those abilities wouldn't make sense if he was all in your face all the time, nor does Kirby really show that type of berserker personality, generally. Kirby's strength has always been in his adaptability-- trying to argue he wouldn't adapt to the opponent is rather silly.
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And yeah I really think styles are what makes this match decisive

Tira's style is unpredictable, and focused on battling humanoid opponents 1v1 in these exact kinda skirmishes-- she is an assassin. Crono's is more tailored to team battling and battling monsters etc

Kirby's got a great skillset to stall vs Juliet and with the telegraphedness of Star Soul Power combined with his superior range and Geese form would have every reason to. There's nothing in Kirby's character that says he's a reckless melee heavy fighter-- he's got very versatile movesets for a reason.

Kazuma Kiryu excels at disarming, and would abuse this vs Juliet if necessary.

Geese's style is actually really bad against someone with a gun as he's sorta trying to bait you into coming at him so he can use his counter attacks-- and Kiryu is good at counters himself so he's not likely to get caught by those easily.

Basically I think if you crack through double parameter hype, or trying to literally play Tira off as worthless, you realize this is more in the favor of Kirby's team than not here, and it's entirely due to the ordering of the match-ups. A different order and this becomes a lot more shaky.
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Kirby has ranged tools, why wouldn't he use them. He's not exactly a reckless attacker. He naturally has an evasive/ranged skillset here with the ninja teleports and beam/ninja daggers, as well as Geese Howard form giving him an abundance of counters and REPPUKEN

As for Kiryu...

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75365855/879455650

I posted gifs in the first page backing up all those claims

He kinda just blows Geese, and this fight in general, out of the water in terms of superhuman stuff. And it's not all like random thugs, he fights guys who can make magical clones of themselves, for example, or so I've heard. He's got a lot of crazy stuff.

https://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/75365855/879455100

Seriously man check out that bull gif (check out all the gifs really, but the bull gif is my favorite)
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Well I mean I think even if you think Crono wins, it shouldn't be by much, and the overall flow of the fight should be the same

Crono vs Tira
Kirby/Juliet takes out winner without too much issue
Kirby uses his abundance of range, counters, etc to stall out Juliet and Star Soul Power
Kazuma Kiryu cleans up, and then takes out Geese because he's kind of a lot better
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I guess if Tira has a really bad beat with her random personalities Crono could take her

Seems bad to gamble on that though
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Well you literally argued Crono to do something stupid (cast spells in melee combat) so I figure they're probably even in that regard?
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That just gives her a high pain threshold and makes her hard to adapt to for a guy like Crono who doesn't fight much in the way of humanoids anyway. Like I said this isn't really Crono's element (and I don't mean lightning) all things told.
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Yeah that's the move I've been saying Tira counters just by... doing her normal attacks.

Kinda not very effective to be circling your opponent when they're swinging their weapon around themselves anyway. He'd get counterhit before he started attacking
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I'm pretty sure it's a limitation of the graphics and the implication is that Ayla is fastball specialing him in a line through the enemies, but it's hard to have her actually throwing her horizontal through them while making it clear she threw him without making the animation wonky like that.

Mostly because he does nothing like that in any of his solo techs or other duel techs whatsoever.
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I would disagree on that, not that Ayla's even here though

Beat the hell out of Crono's actual solo techs in any case (which as I already said are kinda bad against Tira to begin with because of the nature of how a bladed hula hoop is used in a fight)
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Goddamn ninjas
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It's not really for character strength as much as showing what techniques she has.

Dan's techs actually generally look pretty jokey so the comparison doesn't really wash-- Tira's actually look effective
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Tira disrespect is weirder imo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq85QiXtFGE#t=0m52s

Like just look at the combo there in the next 10s or so. That's way more impressive than any melee thing Crono's doing anywhere in Chrono Trigger. Like she doesn't have much in the way of canonical battle wins because she's more of a manipulator type, but she's not like, a joke character, and she has the lore on her side that she's a legit fighter and pretty impressive fast combos all things told.

(Hey we're 52s buddies)

(And Actually the one at around 2m20s is even better)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vq85QiXtFGE#t=2m20s
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The question is how Crono fares against your typical Soul Calibur characters in a straight up melee fight. Like I agree she's fairly low tier on the Soul pecking order, but Crono wouldn't exactly be a powerhouse there given the sword technique he displays in CT. Guy seldom if ever has pure melee duels-- it's about the team dynamic and spells that really makes the guy decent
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So basically tl;dr on gifs

- Moves fast enough to take out groups of guys before they can react, and throw a guy into the air, disarm him, and hit him with the weapon he stole from him before he lands
- Good enough awareness and reaction speeds to dodge rockets
- Strong enough to stop a charging bull and wrestle it down, stop a leaping tiger with one punch, swing a motorcycle around, and destroy a statue with one hit

Also he literally has a segment of the game where he guns down an entire squad of guys from a car, and guns down a helicopter-- including shooting rockets out of the air with his pistol, and has bullet time shown with his, so his gunner cred here to do major damage should not be in question



(that's the segment in question, segment vs the helicopter starts at 2:30)
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He's beating up standard mooks but with speed way beyond anything Juliet shows

Also those standard mooks are probably more capable than most lollipop chainsaw zombies which are kinda jokey really.

Also let's see some POWER gifs.






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It's okay I'm here with gratuitous gifspam. We will make things right.
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Okay see now that one I can see.

Clearly people just didn't see these awesome gifs I linked of how great this guy is and that's why they're humoring Geese Howard as being on his level. I'll repost em in a viewable form.

Speed seems most relevant in this match. Dude is probably able to keep up with 2x params Juliet with this speed and reaction times which is way above what she's packin. Smokes Geese in either case.








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Also am I the only one who can't see the gifs I linked

Not sure why the links were butchered in the copy pasta

I'm going to repost the awesome bull one and see if I can see it with this other link


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