Lurker > bng_mmmk

Doesn't matter, though. I'm just being nit-picky. Crazy what a single beer will do when I'm communicating behind a screen and a keyboard.
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turbopuns

VeryInsane posted...

They both see a lot of play even with Warrior being common so... yes?

I guess I see your point, but it sounds like you're just saying "This warrior nerf will result in reduced win rates for warriors." >_>
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turbopuns

VeryInsane posted...

bng_mmmk posted...

Do people really not play Northshire because of Fiery War Axe?

I'm saying they killed the only good answer to turn 1 go first mana Wyrm or Northshire

I mean...do those two cards currently dominate all non-warrior classes?
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turbopuns

Do people really not play Northshire because of Fiery War Axe?
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turbopuns

Nerfing hex? What? I must have missed all the raging over that one.
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turbopuns

This reminds me just how much I enjoyed seeing Brann + MCT go off.
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turbopuns

Well, you can call it being punished for playing a lot of minions, but the card has always existed so technically it's just a risk you're signing up for any time you extend beyond three minions. Any board clear "punishes" in the same way.
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turbopuns

The 4 minion requirement is a huge difference. Your opponent can have three 12/12s and MCT does nothing. So you can't just play it on demand, and even when you can, it's a random minion. That's basically the reason it's not seen as an issue.
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turbopuns

Yeah, 8-3 is always alright in my book. I drafted a shaman last night and was feeling alright about it. Lost my first match because of an extremely depressing 1/5 deadly shot hitting my cobalt scalebane which was behind a 2/6 taunt and I had ancestral spirit in hand for next turn. Just left it at 0-1 and went back to ladder lol.
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turbopuns

Also, I can't find the words to express the joy I felt after beating pirate warrior repeatedly.
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turbopuns

I was definitely losing to jade more often than I was losing to aggro. Playing unleash the hounds after someone follows up a hydra with living mana is quite delightful, btw.

I also wasn't exactly facing the best players at those ranks. But I did beat some jade druids if they just didn't draw innervate + spreading plague. Or occasionally even if they did, but not much.
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turbopuns

made it from rank 18 to rank 10 last night running aggro hunter. was at 75% win rate up until rank 10, and ended the night around 65%. max win streak was 9.

35% of opponents were druid.

winning record against every class except warlock (1-2) and shaman (1-2).

and most interesting of all, I was actually having fun! imagine that. Oh, also, the deck didn't contain a single card from KFT.
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turbopuns

I spent so long enduring the struggle of playing midrange and control hunter on ladder that it came full circle and I'm now very much enjoying my 8-2 start with face hunter, lol.
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turbopuns

oddly enough, dog is going over his viewer statistics of his early days on stream right now. he started in april 2014
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turbopuns

bng_mmmk posted...

The idea of "if you can't kill on exactly turn 9 or 10, you weren't dominating" is just...ignorant.

really the only way to avoid this point is to argue that Frost Lich Jaina changed what it means to dominate a game, which is basically the same as saying "well, yes, previously this game would have been defined as you dominating, but now it's not, due to the existence of Frost Lich Jaina", which is basically the same as saying "Frost Lich Jaina is borked"
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turbopuns

on an unrelated, less alcohol-tilted note, does anyone know how long dog has been playing/streaming and what else he played/streamed before Hearthstone?
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turbopuns

bng_mmmk posted...

MariaTaylor posted...

you have to understand the issue is that often you have to FOREGO making the optimal play because the oppressive hero power of DK Jaina restricts the lines of play you have available. if you top deck a minion with one health or one they can trade into and drop to one health then you just can't play.

this.

or, ya know, even if you make a decent play it's a fucking mage who probably has some burn spell or some way to put a minion at 1 health.

It's just oppressive as fuck.

The idea of "if you can't kill on exactly turn 9 or 10, you weren't dominating" is just...ignorant.
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turbopuns

MariaTaylor posted...

you have to understand the issue is that often you have to FOREGO making the optimal play because the oppressive hero power of DK Jaina restricts the lines of play you have available. if you top deck a minion with one health or one they can trade into and drop to one health then you just can't play.

this.
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turbopuns

Like let's just compare Frost Lich Jaina to Deathwing.

If your opponent plays Deathwing and that's the turning point of the game that causes you to lose, it's just because you didn't have an answer to remove Deathwing. But if you can remove Deathwing, then very rarely does Deathwing win the game. It just prolongs the loss. Because Deathwing is just a minion.

But you can't "answer" something like Frost Lich Jaina which permanently changes the game state.

There is no way in a draft to think "hmm...I should pick card X over card Y because it's less likely to create a scenario where on turn 11 my opponent can create a situation which involves either his minion or my minion having 1 health"
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turbopuns

CybrMonkey posted...

Right, my point is that value vs a mage doesn't matter. If you can't finish them off right after they play the DK then you weren't playing fast enough/going face enough, or they just kept clearing your board, in which case you weren't "dominating".

bng_mmmk posted...

You're talking about arena as if it's constructed.

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turbopuns

You're talking about arena as if it's constructed.

Like, you say:

"Dominating" means you have a pretty good board lead and have already whittled down their heath a fair bit by turn 9. The Jaina DK is a rather large tempo loss itself and takes 2-3 turns to regain the tempo even if you have things to ping. If you've been dominating then you should just be able to capitalize on this and lethal them over the next couple turns.


Just a couple days ago I was up 30 life to 10 against a guy, and I controlled the board, and I had card advantage.

But because he played Jaina, and the cards in my hand weren't reach or high cost minions, he was able to take complete control of the game.

In arena, you absolutely can dominate a game for 8 or 9 turns and not have finishing power that eats through infinite lifesteal.
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turbopuns

CybrMonkey posted...

The argument is that when facing mage, you should be trying to play faster than them. "Dominating" means you have a pretty good board lead and have already whittled down their heath a fair bit by turn 9. The Jaina DK is a rather large tempo loss itself and takes 2-3 turns to regain the tempo even if you have things to ping. If you've been dominating then you should just be able to capitalize on this and lethal them over the next couple turns. The lifesteal is too slow to matter in this case. Meanwhile the DK just sits in your opponent's hand, useless until turn 9. Sure, in a value match-up the DK can just win, but then you probably weren't dominating in this sense. And since so many of the cards in this set reward having the board, that should always be your number 1 priority vs mage, not value, unless you have a specific type of deck, which will just be weak to the DK by its nature.

bng_mmmk posted...

Like, you can have ten times the value in your deck, but if the numbers just don't work for you to avoid 1 health minions, you'll lose if you can't kill them within one or two turns. It's the single best carry card in the game.

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turbopuns

Earlier tonight I was watching merps streaming and he was talking some about the arena situation. He said he and adwcta don't think DK cards themselves are a problem any more than, for example, Deathwing, is a problem. Their only beef is that Jaina and Gul'dan have no place in the synergy pools.

He said something like "If you think you were dominating a game, and then your opponent played Jaina, and you ended up losing, the fact is you weren't dominating the game."

That's bullshit. Utter bullshit. Anyone who thinks Frost Lich Jaina isn't a completely insane arena card is just flat out wrong.

Sure...sure, sometimes when Jaina gets played the other person still wins no problem. But the circumstances under which Jaina takes a totally lost cause and completely flips it around are unacceptable. It's not like, "wow, that was a great turn for my opponent. With some additional luck in successive turns, this might be a problem" like you'd see with, say, deathwing.

It punishes absolutely unforeseeable circumstances. Like, you can have ten times the value in your deck, but if the numbers just don't work for you to avoid 1 health minions, you'll lose if you can't kill them within one or two turns. It's the single best carry card in the game.
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turbopuns

HOLY SHIT UCLA

Came back from 44-10 to win 45-44.
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turbopuns

my opponent in arena just played Piloted Shredder and my head nearly exploded.

then snowchugger, micro machine, hungry dragon, etc.

it took me a minute to realize he just drafted it a really long time ago.
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turbopuns

Saw ADWCTA get 12 wins with a Paladin last night. I was sorta tilted from watching his last game. It was against a priest who...pretty much didn't do anything the whole game. He presumably had some expensive and/or useless cards in hand.

So frustrating to see someone just waltz through their final game when I've exclusively faced mages with perfect virtually unstoppable curves whenever I've been at 11 wins. >:(
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turbopuns

Innervate really is nuts.

Druid can end turn one with a 2/3, 2/2, and 3/3, without the coin. :(
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turbopuns

since you mention it, I remember seeing that interaction now.

I don't think I would have made that mistake previously, since it was actually spelled out on the card instead of just being a keyword.
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turbopuns

learned a lesson the hard way earlier.

not being used to playing priest this expansion, in arena I ran my obsidian statue into a 1/4 before I traded in my auchenai, and took 4 to the face >_>

still won though.
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turbopuns

who knows if this is actually what it claims to be, but I had a good laugh anyway

http://imgur.com/a/zI5n1

"Hearthstone cards translated from german to japanese to finnish to swedish to russian and back to english."
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turbopuns

MariaTaylor posted...

^ that is pretty funny, when someone who works on the game doesn't even know if it's intentional or a bug... and needs to go and check.

I mean...I'm sure there are a number of people who work on the game. I wouldn't expect all of them to be familiar with everything, especially something as minor as the interactions of one specific card.
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turbopuns

Yeah the perfect DK card is always tough to swallow.

Was pretty salty the other day when I was finally about to stabilize against a Rogue and he got sudden genesis from swashburglar with a cult master on board.
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turbopuns

This warlock draft ended up with one twisting nether and two dooms.

It's not going to go all that far but it's pretty funny when you play them all in the same game.
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turbopuns

http://plays.tv/video/59a6d16db2696d86f6/how-to-achieve-turn-2-otk-as-purify-priest

lol
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turbopuns

I at least got to use the zoobot to buff a stubborn gastropod. >_>
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turbopuns

I get offered Coldlight Seer all the damn time in my synergy picks. I never take it, because it's shit if you don't get any other murlocs.

In my most recent draft, I finally said fuck it, let's believe in the murloc dream. Took two of the seers early as well as zoobot and menagerie magician.

Naturally, I was never offered another murloc.
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turbopuns

ah, neat.

Kibler commented in one of his recent rexxar videos how swamp king dred is a hard counter to quest mage. It's so true, and somewhat hilarious.
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turbopuns

spells cost 0?
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turbopuns

wtf is this brawl lol
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turbopuns

Kibler made top 200 legend with Rexxar. <3
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turbopuns

Shad don't listen to these jokers. The best advice is obviously to just have every answer in your hand every game.
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turbopuns

I wanted to check my coin percentages, but I just realized HDT hasn't been tracking my arena games properly. It's been picking up the decks but recording them all as 0 wins.
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turbopuns

I always just stick with the default card back, too. So imagine what's going through their minds when they see an opening like turn 1 pass turn 2 murloc tidehunter or faerie dragon. Probably assume it's somebody who just picked up the game that week or something.

Wait, shit, I have a golden hunter portrait. Scratch that thought lol.
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turbopuns

I wish HDT kept track of opponent emotes. My /wow percentage after playing zoobot would surely be up there.
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turbopuns

MrSmartGuy posted...

Burn Mage has been prevalent in the meta since before Frozen Throne hit. Basically as soon as everyone embraced how utterly broken Primordial Glyph is.

I'd like to see glyph only reduce the cost by 1 and for shadow visions to cost 3.
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turbopuns

KokoroAkechi posted...

This can be misleading. Had a 12 win run where I went first 10 times and won 9 of them. So that helps.

Well if going first provides an advantage, isn't it unsurprising that a 12 win run would involve going first a lot?
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turbopuns

I like the idea of let innervate refresh 2 empty crystals but not take you above your current max.

So for example with 5 mana you can play a 5, innervate, play a 2. Or play a 4, innervate, play a 3. But you can't play a 7.

Also, with Spreading Plague, it needs an upper limit, yeah. It coexisting with cards like forbidden ritual is beyond dumb. Just make it a flat pay 5 summon 3 1/5s or whatever.
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turbopuns

KokoroAkechi posted...

Also rogue is the new priest.

Typical rogue game

Rogue plays Hallucination Turn 1
In 5 rogue plays Lyra (From Hallucination) and 2 to 3 spells.
Rogue plays Devour Mind (From Lyra from Hallucination) with Prep
Rogue plays set of high value legendaries (Lich King, Anduin, Kazakus from Devour mind)

I lost one like this yesterday:


Turn 1: Hallucination
Turn 2: Kindly Grandmother (created by Hallucination) + Preparation + Fan of Knives (cleared my minions) + Counterfeit Coin (drawn from Fan of Knives) + Swashburglar + Preparation + Dinomancy (created by Swashburglar)

I didn't draw removal and I was always one mana or one damage short of clearing the beast, and he killed me with like an 11 or 13 attack beast.


Not really an indication of Rogue being broken, but it was just an insane off the wall sequence and draw, the likes of which I'll probably never experience again.
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turbopuns

been playing a zoobot hunter. so far my win rate is exactly 50%, but I'm enjoying it a lot. going to see if I can tweak it some more to actually climb the ladder starting next season.
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turbopuns

lol
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turbopuns