Lurker > Lopen

Corrik7 posted...

Nah it clears her if a real cop exists.

WHY.

Red check miller on scans that already are ambiguous makes no sense

I thought that's what you were claiming for

Undate please

Isquen being cop does not clear Lea

Lea is still scum

Corrik7 posted...

GF would green check. Miller would red check and potentially let the scum skate as the Miller was the red check.

It makes the scan garbage yes.

I don't buy gf or miller

Corrik7 posted...

If the Cop is killed, I get a 1 shot Cop scan of a room that says if both in the room or innocent or at least one is not

If you scan a role with scum result in it you have to figure out whether it's one scum, which one it is, or two scum

Miller and GF are not needed at all.

There may or may not be a cop

The point is you don't need to obscure scan results further if those are the mechanics

If those are the scan mechanics we don't need a miller or gf anyway

I think we axe Lea

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I mean, she claimed it only to Lopen believing he would keep it a secret.

I think she expected me to keep it in the confines of night chats and spread word so she had people to vouch for her claim if she was ever scanned.

I think she felt I genuinely wasn't suspecting her at that point (and I wasn't)

I also think she may have been doing it to fish for MY role in a way, see how I react.

The way she reacted "hilarious if true" is the first thing that sent an alarm bell off for me (beyond claiming it to begin with). Then it was talking about her airplane flights. Then it was literally no one else theorizing a suspicion of Dumey when we all swapped notes.

It felt like I was being led on to misdirect the town and defend her if she afked or was scanned

Was the plan to just clear Lea and then have Peaf be her fail safe if no one bailed her out?

So who is Lea's scumbuddy because I refuse to believe it wasn't any of Dumey JC or Kirby

The gambit is too contrived at that point.

Unless it's just Lea being crazy

Ok here's an interesting idea

What if LEA and JC didn't want to look suspicious paired up and that's what the Peaf insanity was for and implicating Dumey was the payoff.

I still think that's a bit weird. Lea leading me down the Dumey path does kinda make that make more sense though.

Thanks FD

I was like "I already posted this" and didn't want to reconstruct and it took a minute to find

JC claimed right after or right before breaking up in the chaos yesterday

UltimaterializerX posted...

Oh. Almost forgot.

##Breakup

Have fun, Dumey. You got this! Just remember, I will 100% flip town vanilla and using me as a sacrifice to help solve is the right play.

If you feel the FD7 are all town, kill Lopen. Hes (clearly) the most likely player to ruin towns chances of winning.

This is so at counter to how Ulti has played the entire game that you know he's scum for it

I don't see a point unless you want it to be super conspicuous not to save you and force Dumey and Ulti to break

In which case I support it

Only claim if you have a guilty scan imo

Corrik7 posted...

Lopen should I claim?

Why

Here are possibilities

Kirby is scum + Dumey is scum
Kirby is scum + one of JC/Lea is scum
One of Kirby and Dumey is scum, and the other scum is someone not JC Lea FD Lopen

Peaf is scum and everyone else in the final is town is impossible because otherwise Peaf just afks

That's all it is. If you want I can run through the thoughts on each scenario.

If it's just Peaf and JC as scum it continues to be "why do anything"

Kirby321 posted...

Therefore, Dumey went with his other scummate, JC.

Bam. Solved it for you.

Also works

The point is everyone can't be town. That's my whole argument

Kirby321 posted...

Lopen really just likes avoiding the fact that Peaf could have been saved by any of his scumbuddies and then ultimately didn't get saved by any of them. I'm surprised he's not pushing a Dumey/JC/Peaf scum team because that is literally the only scenario where scum had absolutely zero choice but to let someone on their team die, since those were the final three.

Peaf and Dumey breaking up and getting back together looks worse than just staying together

If you're town this is a super easy puzzle to solve and you not solving it is embarrassing

EDumey posted...

*Except to make a dumb play to try and make himself look better.

No

Wouldn't do it

My premise has always been

If it's Peaf scum paired with town and town on the gallows there is no reason to not just leave

The point is you need either Dumey or Kirby scun (or you or Lea but arguably that's stupid too) to be otherwise the action that makes more sense is to just afk

Chaeix posted...

why would he break up to get scumbuddy Kirby to save him and then subsequently not be saved?

It's probably Dumey Ulti or Kirby Ulti

Leaning the first now

EDumey posted...

But him doing it to save Kirby and make himself look good is completely out of the picture.

No that works too

But only if Kirby is scum

Either Kirby must be scum OR he had to be nervous about how you two would look

EDumey posted...

Remember that Lopen argued tooth and nail that Peaf wouldn't do a FAFO play and leave the cover of a safe date, but now has convinced himself that Ulti and I are scum, which would mean Peaf made a FAFO play and left the cover of a safe date. He doesn't even believe his own arguments.

Actually him doing it to save no one to make you look good is completely fine

Chaeix posted...

i think where we're diverging is 'because he thought peaf was an easy partner' is a satisfactory answer for me, which i believe was red's position?

Why does Peaf gambit at all if Dumey and Kirby and JC and Lea are town. It's too suicidal

Chaeix posted...

lopen

JC

That's why he got stuck

But what makes him scum is "why do it to begin with"

Chaeix posted...

Lopen the biggest thing I don't follow about your logic is the fact that you've said a few times (I think) that Peaf thought Kirby was an easy banked date for him when he broke up with Dumey.

Didn't say that

The first thing to resolve is why the gambit is done in the first place

Peaf acting alone isn't sensible

The big question is why Dumey thought Ulti was trustworthy when he had played the game to this point trying to keep himself alive above all other things

Dumey just claimed scum I think

Lopen posted...

To be clear, I don't necessarily think Ulti is scum either, but it may be better odds following Lopen's arguments on Ulti here and getting some info out of Ulti's flip, rather than a random shot at Isquen or Corrik.

Like this in particular says that Dumey should aim to pair with Isquen or Corrik

EDumey posted...

Kirby lets take a second before consensual breakups are required, and view what the possibilities here assuming no major shakeups.

Pairs:

Lea + JC
FD + MZero
Sultan + Sir Chris
Ulti + Kirby

Unpaired:
Lopen, Isquen, Dumey, Corrik, Red

FD and MZero are locked. Lea JC has no reason to breakup except to cause chaos. I don't think Lea is looking to repeat after some of the suspicion she's got on her today. Sultan has made a lot of changes today, but I can see him landing on Chris for good here.

Out of the final 5, I think Lopen and Red are town, and I would look to date one of the two. Lets say I date Red, and that leaves Lopen to hopefully decide between Isquen and Corrik. Are either of those more worthwhile lynches than Ulti?

To be clear, I don't necessarily think Ulti is scum either, but it may be better odds following Lopen's arguments on Ulti here and getting some info out of Ulti's flip, rather than a random shot at Isquen or Corrik.

I guess what I'm asking you here Kirby, is after you went after Sultan for saving Chris, are you comfortable saving Ulti over Isquen or Corrik?

Really weird date for Dumey to be locked into with this post in mind btw

My rabbit hole is pretty shallow right now. Its literally a web of 3 people.

I think it's Dumey and Ulti now and I screwed up.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

But that would definitely be an awful idea and not worth the risk, lol

That's the BEST idea

Er Dumey would be number 2

Behind Peaf

Ergo if you're town Kirby Peaf should be your number one suspect

Dumey Peaf is the one situation where I could see Kirby being town btw

It's literally the only way Peaf's gambit makes sense if Kirby is town

If any 2/3 of Ulti Dumey Kirby end the day paired town

Please murder one from the group

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I mean, not true. I explicitly talked about scum Kirby and said it directly TO Kirby, and gave Lea some consideration as well as the kind of player who would initiate something like that with scummates Peaf/Kirby.

But it is true that I didn't give much consideration to JC or Dumey being scum.

Yes but you're town

I'm saying scum would want to push the suspicion. We had 2 scum in night chats and none of them did it.

Or Ulti is being pocketed by Dumey

It's either Ulti is scum trying to pocket Dumey who is being stubborn because straight suicidal Peaf fits his world view Ulti is being pocketed

It's impossible to know unfortunately

The biggest red flag should be that I'm the only one wanting to probe this supposed play Peaf made

Wouldn't it be in scum's best interest to try and probe a group of 4 town clears if it was a gambit

No one seriously talked about JC Lea Dumey or Kirby as scum overnight except me and Lea. Isn't that a bit weird. Wouldn't scum have been out to reap the rewards of Peaf's gambit?

Breakups at this point are just posturing

Let's call Ulti's bluff and flip him

Dumey you're wrong get over it

Very slight chance red is scum
Ulti x Kirby x Dumey has 2 scum probably

Corrik and Isquen town

I need to save Corrik and Isquen

That's all that's important here. They're both town imo

I'm not convinced he's emotional. He has no reason to be currently

Date Dumey then.

I'm 99% sure Kirby is scum because scum being at risk is what makes the play necessary and dude has been all over the place