Would you help or be a bystander in this situation?

You're walking down the street at night when you come across a large man who is walking side-by-side with a much smaller woman, gripping her shoulder. There doesn't seem to be anybody else around but the three of you. The women looks nervous, and behind his back the man is holding a knife. He turns around, looks at you, and shakes his head in a "you better not try anything" sort of way. You suddenly hear a car horn honk, and you turn your head to see an unmarked van sitting with the lights off nearby. The driver shakes his head in a "you better not try anything" sort of way. You realize the man with the knife is leading the woman to this van. It's clear this woman is going to be hauled away if you don't act now.

Do you intervene to help the woman or do you comply with the two men and book it out of there?

...Still not a SINGLE vote yet?

I'm thinking people don't want to click that "Bystander Mode Activate" option and come to terms with the reality that they wouldn't be willing to do anything.

Do my best to subtly record video or get pictures to give to the police. Otherwise, be a bystander because I'm tiny and would absolutely get killed. What would I vote? Cause I'm technically doing both.

Mario_VS_DK posted...

Do my best to subtly record video or get pictures to give to the police. Otherwise, be a bystander because I'm tiny and would absolutely get killed. What would I vote? Cause I'm technically doing both.

Obviously Bystander Mode Activate. I would assume that anyone would contact the police after that in the hopes that something will come of it, but really if you let her get in that van it's probably too late for her, especially considering it's unmarked so license plate info is out.

Are you expecting someone to say thru would take on two armed assailants at night for a total stranger?

Anyone with a shred of decency would want to help her somehow, but getting yourself killed isn't going to help anything.

What exactly are you expecting people to do? Unless somebody has a gun, they're kinda outmatched. Sure, I *could* make a point of pulling out a phone and calling the cops right in front of them while giving details which wouldn't put me at much risk but, at the same time, probably would just make them abduct the woman faster instead of scaring them away. Alternatively, if you're parked nearby, you could get in your car and follow them.

In general, your poll options suck because there are really three options:
1) Try to be an action hero
2) Call the cops while taking their info, or another more passive way of helping
3) Do absolutely nothing, not even reporting it to the cops

Almost nobody would go with #3, because most people would at least try to report the thing after the fact. A few people might try #1, especially if they're just following the kidnappers while calling the cops. However, most people would at least call the cops and report what they saw.

This is precisely why I've spent years honing my bushijutsu skills, and carry my beloved twice-folded fine Japanese steel katana with me everywhere.

Zeus posted...

Do absolutely nothing, not even reporting it to the cops

I don't think my options suck. "Help" would basically be number one as you mentioned, "Bystander Mode Activate" encompasses number two, and like you said, virtually nobody would go for the third option so there's really not much point including it, as I'd expect it to get troll votes, if anything.

That's not Bystander Mode; that's just not being suicidal. You've already been implicitly threatened not to act.

Currant_Kaiser posted...

Mario_VS_DK posted...

Do my best to subtly record video or get pictures to give to the police. Otherwise, be a bystander because I'm tiny and would absolutely get killed. What would I vote? Cause I'm technically doing both.

Obviously Bystander Mode Activate. I would assume that anyone would contact the police after that in the hopes that something will come of it, but really if you let her get in that van it's probably too late for her, especially considering it's unmarked so license plate info is out.

...that's not how "unmarked" works. And if you report a van with no license plates -- which in itself is illegal and risks being pulled over at any point, hence why criminals instead use fake or stolen plates -- and the approximate location, they'd have a pretty good chance at finding it.

Nor is that how a real bystander works. In fact, the best-known example of the bystander effect had an entire apartment building witness a girl get murdered with nobody calling the cops, either because they figured it wasn't their problem or somebody else was doing it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

A guy on r/letsnotmeet claimed to get in this exact scenario, which is why I bring it up. He allegedly did manage to save the girl by going berserk mode and screaming at the guy with the knife while running up and getting in his face so that the man just bolted into the van and they drove off.

Currant_Kaiser posted...

Zeus posted...

Do absolutely nothing, not even reporting it to the cops

I don't think my options suck. "Help" would basically be number one as you mentioned, "Bystander Mode Activate" encompasses number two, and like you said, virtually nobody would go for the third option so there's really not much point including it, as I'd expect it to get troll votes, if anything.

No, it doesn't. And the options are more diverse than what you state, considering that even an active role could have more variety. You could physically attack them, using a weapon on your person -- a pen, knife, or even a gun. You could try to draw attention to the crime in the hopes it discourages them (shouting, calling the cops in front of them). You could follow them while calling the cops, which has been reported on the news multiple times. Hell, you could even damage the vehicle to make it easier to track.

Bystander mode activate.

What should i do? Run at the guy and disable him with my ninja skills while at the same time taking his partner out when he inevitably runs at me? The guy has a huge advantage in that not only does he have a knife but he doesnt even need to actively try to fight me since he would just need to wait for his partner to come to 2v1 me.

Ether i ignore it and possibly call the police later or get heavily injured/die if i try to fight.

Currant_Kaiser posted...

Do you intervene to help the woman or do you comply with the two men and book it out of there?

I'd probably call the cops but that's it. I'm not about to get stabbed and have the guys still kidnap the woman thanks.

I'd call the police and give them as much info as I could, and keep the guy in sight while maintaining distance

Zeus posted...

Nor is that how a real bystander works.

Being a bystander is not the same thing as the formally-recognized concept of the bystander effect (which is a specifc example of diffusion of responsibility). The word's being used correctly here, though it would not be correct to say that somebody who did nothing in this case fell victim to the bystander effect.

At the very least I'd get the license plate. If the end result was certainly "getting killed then she is taken anyway," fuck it. I'm not dying over it. It's call 911 time.

I haven't been in a fight since school age, but I can probably still withstand a lot. If I had a basic weapon or something to throw, I definitely would try to give her room to get away.

Zeus posted...

Currant_Kaiser posted...

Mario_VS_DK posted...

Do my best to subtly record video or get pictures to give to the police. Otherwise, be a bystander because I'm tiny and would absolutely get killed. What would I vote? Cause I'm technically doing both.

Obviously Bystander Mode Activate. I would assume that anyone would contact the police after that in the hopes that something will come of it, but really if you let her get in that van it's probably too late for her, especially considering it's unmarked so license plate info is out.

...that's not how "unmarked" works. And if you report a van with no license plates -- which in itself is illegal and risks being pulled over at any point, hence why criminals instead use fake or stolen plates -- and the approximate location, they'd have a pretty good chance at finding it.

Nor is that how a real bystander works. In fact, the best-known example of the bystander effect had an entire apartment building witness a girl get murdered with nobody calling the cops, either because they figured it wasn't their problem or somebody else was doing it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Kitty_Genovese

Hard to say whether there's really a "pretty good chance" or not. Depends on how far the nearest police station/available unit is, the layout of the area, etc. For all anyone knows they could sneak away into the goddamn mountains.

And I didn't say anything about the bystander effect. That doesn't really apply here, that requires multiple bystanders. "Bystander" is, per Google, "a person who is present at an event or incident but does not take part". I would say that doing nothing to intervene would certainly make you a bystander. Sure you might call the police afterwards, but I don't think that's enough to make the label of bystander unfitting.

it depends on relative positioning of everything, but I'd be inclined to put myself in between the man and the van and hopefully be able to do something to at least give her the option of running away, or call his bluff in regards to how violent he's willing to be.

Even if you can't stop them without getting yourself or the woman hurt you can make it very clear that you've got their faces and car/plates on video and send them somewhere immediately before calling cops.
If they don't actually abduct her then the charges are unlikely to stick if they have even a half decent lawyer and they'd know it so give them an excuse to abort and if they get too interested in you, get out of there before you're next.

Syntheticon posted...

Even if you can't stop them without getting yourself or the woman hurt you can make it very clear that you've got their faces and car/plates on video and send them somewhere immediately before calling cops.
If they don't actually abduct her then the charges are unlikely to stick if they have even a half decent lawyer and they'd know it so give them an excuse to abort and if they get too interested in you, get out of there before you're next.

Honestly, just getting a picture and sending it quickly could be enough to make them back down.

take out your cell phone while heading to your car if it's nearby, call 911, and snap a pic of them and the car and send it to the police. Then follow with your car, keeping the police updated on where they are located.

If you don't have a car, you could do everything the same (just take the pic while walking away from them a bit), then either A: Try and take them out/slow them down (especially if there are things to throw around, just get them chasing you and not holding the woman....possibly giving her a chance to escape), or B, just send the info and report the direction the van is traveling in for as long as you can see it (possibly trying to flag down any other car and get them to follow it).

Just charging the guys is an option if you don't have people your responsible for, especially since only one is outside the car and just has a knife, almost anyone could probably distract him enough for the girl to get away, and with decent martial arts training you might even be able to take him out.

After which (or even while doing so) try and make sure there is something between you and the van, in case someone inside has a gun.

Then wait with the chick to the police arrive, and deal with any idiots that come out of the van after her (even with a gun if your behind a car, they can't really shoot you till they get within h2h range.

Still risky, gotta weight the risk (to other people your responsible for more then yourself) and do what is best for everyone in that situation. Also can look for others around to alert to the situation, one person alone is one thing, but if 5-6 bystanders get involved they may just cut and run (lets just hope they don't cut the girl and run though).

Well this has always been a death wish for me so.....i would do what I can to get her free and her run away. Probably die in the exchange but I would try to help her.

I get his number for future services

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Honestly, just getting a picture and sending it quickly could be enough to make them back down.

It also could be enough for them to attack you if they see you doing it.

help but not by doing anything like attacking them. even if you had training thats a good way for yourself or the woman to get killed. even if you had a gun it's not a guarantee she wouldn't get hurt.

best bet is phoning the cops as soon as they start driving away and give the plate plus description

I always have my gun on me, so some meathead with a pocket knife doesn't get me shaking in my boots.

I can be much more useful by contacting the police than I can by bleeding out in the trunk of an abandoned car somewhere.

adjl posted...

Zeus posted...

Nor is that how a real bystander works.

Being a bystander is not the same thing as the formally-recognized concept of the bystander effect (which is a specifc example of diffusion of responsibility). The word's being used correctly here, though it would not be correct to say that somebody who did nothing in this case fell victim to the bystander effect.

Except that calling the police is literally doing something.

wwinterj25 posted...

TheCyborgNinja posted...

Honestly, just getting a picture and sending it quickly could be enough to make them back down.

It also could be enough for them to attack you if they see you doing it.

They likely wouldn't risk it because it would mean their victim could get away.