Current Events > The way Crimson Flower handles the timeskip is insane (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just a still of a dragon roaring and Edelgard and Hubert going "oh no, things are happening. Wait. No! Professoooooooooooor!" and then you wake up after sleeping for five years.

It's stupid in all routes, but there's at least scenes of what is happening in the other ones. It's kind of crazy just how good Three Houses is despite being extremely unfinished and otherwise rough around the edges.

CF is so unfinished they probably shouldn't have bothered

Most of the game is unfinished in some way, but it's definitely more so with Crimson Flower. Much more so.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Most of the game is unfinished in some way, but it's definitely more so with Crimson Flower. Much more so.

I feel like for Three Houses to be the game it wanted to be, it would have needed like 10 years of dev time. Which at the time, was pretty crazy to think of, compared to today. >_>

There's a cutscene between Dimitri and Dedue later that's just a blank black screen with dialogue. They just didn't give af.

CF was originally unplanned. If you picked Black Eagles, it would just force you into Church Route.

I still need to play Three House.

Tyranthraxus posted...

CF was originally unplanned. If you picked Black Eagles, it would just force you into Church Route.

I don't know why this urban myth keeps getting perpetuated, but the devs admitted that it was planned from the start, and they had to make the requirements to get there easier after playtesting feedback (so one has to wonder how difficult it was to unlock originally).

The one thing that IS clear is it was worked on last, and that was largely because it didn't share much of anything with the other routes (consequently, Silver Snow was made first, and it really shows). And it's not the only route that has visible shortcuts at that; the Azure Moon one right after the Battle of the Eagle and Lion blatantly should've had one, for instance.

AM should have had a what? A route split?

the fact IS was shocked by the routs popularity kinda shows how out of touch they are with the fanbase

AceMos posted...

the fact IS was shocked by the routs popularity kinda shows how out of touch they are with the fanbase

Referring to Crimson Flower? No surprise. It is the most unique route with the others feeling very samey (particularly VW/SS). And yeah, Edelgard is probably the most popular of the lords, and this is the only Route where you get to control her in Part 2. And she is crazy busted being essentially Byleth with better proficiencies and Raging Storm.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Most of the game is unfinished in some way, but it's definitely more so with Crimson Flower. Much more so.

Yeah... the fact both Crimson Flower and Azure Moon end without ever doing anything about Shambhala is telling (even though AM has you kill Thales at least). In Crimson Flower's case, it is particularly jarring since the ending has it say that they are dealt with post-game...and then the DLC characters endings in that route explicitly say there was a battle at Shambhala (Byleth/Jeritza's paired ending literally shows them fighting at Shambhala). And also there is data in the game of Edelgard deployed at Shambhala. So yeah, the route definitely had material cut. Hence why it feels so short.

My hottest Three Houses take is that it should probably have just been two routes: Crimson Flower and Azure Moon. That likely would have left plenty of time and resources for both routes to fully cook. Plus it's two sides of the standard Fire Emblem story: AM has you as the renegade prince taking his country back and CF has you as the invading army. Both are the standard blue=heroes and red=villains color code to boot.

Sorry, Claude. Maybe your story could have been saved for a sequel.

Remember when Claude was a brilliant schemer and his plan to take the heaviest fortified fortress in the empire was to... dress up a few people as empire soldiers and have them open the door from the inside.

And it worked.

EVERY route is half baked at best.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Remember when Claude was a brilliant schemer and his plan to take the heaviest fortified fortress in the empire was to... dress up a few people as empire soldiers and have them open the door from the inside.

And it worked.

EVERY route is half baked at best.

That kind of strategy works all the time IRL. You can break into a lot of places by just pretending you're supposed to be there. You might get caught eventually but in a situation where you only need to fool people for a few minutes it's a pretty sound strategy.

Ivynn posted...

My hottest Three Houses take is that it should probably have just been two routes: Crimson Flower and Azure Moon. That likely would have left plenty of time and resources for both routes to fully cook. Plus it's two sides of the standard Fire Emblem story: AM has you as the renegade prince taking his country back and CF has you as the invading army. Both are the standard blue=heroes and red=villains color code to boot.

Sorry, Claude. Maybe your story could have been saved for a sequel.

but calling edelgard the villain is kinda missing the point

the story is built on its grey morality

But I get to have Jeritza and Edelgard as units though.

AceMos posted...

but calling edelgard the villain is kinda missing the point

the story is built on its grey morality

The problem with that is that in order to justify Edelgard in Crimson Flower, the game had to rewrite Rhea to be an absolute (and literal) monster. If it was truly as grey as Edel fans suggest that should not be required.

dancing_cactuar posted...

But I get to have Jeritza and Edelgard as units though.

Oh yeah? Well, on Azure Moon you get to have Gilbert! A very common Azure Moon W.

For real though, the biggest appeal of CF for me is Hubert. He's by far the most interesting character that is locked to that route. CF and even BE WC Edelgard is kind of pathetic to witness in their reliance on Byleth for... very questionably written reasons.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

The problem with that is that in order to justify Edelgard in Crimson Flower, the game had to rewrite Rhea to be an absolute (and literal) monster. If it was truly as grey as Edel fans suggest that should not be required.

the state of the country is because of rhea and the crest system she pushed

rhea hid the true history from the people

the only thing rhea cares about is her mother

Amakusa posted...

I don't know why this urban myth keeps getting perpetuated, but the devs admitted that it was planned from the start, and they had to make the requirements to get there easier after playtesting feedback (so one has to wonder how difficult it was to unlock originally).

Because people have a hateboner for CF. It's just not worth dealing with CF haters, because they make up their own arguments.

Edelgard isn't really a villain because she doesn't have much agency. She is being compelled by TWSITD. That doesn't justify allying with her though.

Tmaster148 posted...

Because people have a hateboner for CF. It's just not worth dealing with CF haters, because they make up their own arguments.

I thought they were just sexist and un-American? I really wish you'd make up your mind as to which fallacy you prefer.

Ivynn posted...

My hottest Three Houses take is that it should probably have just been two routes: Crimson Flower and Azure Moon. That likely would have left plenty of time and resources for both routes to fully cook. Plus it's two sides of the standard Fire Emblem story: AM has you as the renegade prince taking his country back and CF has you as the invading army. Both are the standard blue=heroes and red=villains color code to boot.

Sorry, Claude. Maybe your story could have been saved for a sequel.

I agree with this. Red and Blue the most interesting routes by far from a story/moral standpoint. If resources were concentrated on those two would feel tighter and more developed. Could just distribute the yellow and white units between those two.

it would have been better to divide it between edelgard and rhea

as they are the central figures in the conflict

then you can recruit one of the other nations (the one you dont recruit goes to the other side)

thus you have 2 full stories

but each story has 2 paths which would mostly play the same but have some varaitions

Out of curiosity, should Rhea have just slaughtered the entire families of the 10 Elites and told the entirety of Fodlan that Crests are actually born from the blood of her species and the strongest weapons are made from their literal corpses? Because that's the alternative to her rewriting of history.

AceMos posted...

but calling edelgard the villain is kinda missing the point

the story is built on its grey morality

I mean she is the villain. Like you could argue she's a sympathetic villain with an overall noble goal, but she allied with an explicitly evil group to launch a war of aggression against the rest of the continent.

She never attempted any form of diplomacy or negotiation with the church to address her issues with the crest system. The second she obtained power she went straight for war. And even before she had power she was actively facilitating the Slither's acts of terrorism against completely innocent people.

I like Edelgard, I think she is a good character with a lot going for her. My biggest issue with Crimson Flower is that it's decidedly half-assed, not her story in concept. But she is absolutely the villain of plot.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Remember when Claude was a brilliant schemer and his plan to take the heaviest fortified fortress in the empire was to... dress up a few people as empire soldiers and have them open the door from the inside.

And it worked.

EVERY route is half baked at best.

My favorite passtime is watching people so confidently criticize Three House's story, and all they're doing is boldly revealing their ignorance.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/afbd5d1e.jpg

The Death Knight sees through the trick immediately.

Compsognathus posted...

She never attempted any form of diplomacy or negotiation with the church to address her issues with the crest system. The second she obtained power she went straight for war. And even before she had power she was actively facilitating the Slither's acts of terrorism against completely innocent people.

Who's she supposed to initiate diplomacy with? Dimitri or Rhea, who don't agree with her? Claude, who she has no reason to trust because he hides so much about himself?

Edelgard is literally the villain in every route except the one you join her on lmao

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

The Death Knight sees through the trick immediately.

I don't understand your hostility or why you think I'm being checkmated by what you're saying. His scheme was so basic literally anyone could have come up with it. IIRC, someone else actually did and he had a eureka moment. Secondly, it did work as they took the fortress using the scheme. Of course they only held it for 10 seconds until TWSITD nuked it.

Still better than how RD handles part 4.

I have always believed that the game should have only had CF and AM, though this would never have happened as the original concept for the game was SS. I also think CF should have been slightly extended to include dealing with TWSITD, as it always felt weird to me that they are simply mentioned as being defeated in epilogues.

Metal_Gear_Raxis posted...

Who's she supposed to initiate diplomacy with? Dimitri or Rhea, who don't agree with her? Claude, who she has no reason to trust because he hides so much about himself?

Yes, Claude, who is probably more likely to trust her than the person who's father she helped murder.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Yes, Claude,

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AudienceAwarenessAdvantage

Here's your required reading for the evening. Just because we know Claude is trustworthy, doesn't mean it makes no sense that most people in universe don't trust him.

who is probably more likely to trust her than the person who's father she helped murder.

Is Jeralt "the father she helped murder"?

In White Clouds the game says that to get from the monastery to gronder field in the empire, you need to go through alliance territory and cross the Airmid river to get to the empire. But in Crimson Flower you need to cross the great bridge of Myrddin to get from the monastery into alliance territory.

Did I mishear something at some point?

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

In White Clouds the game says that to get from the monastery to gronder field in the empire, you need to go through alliance territory and cross the Airmid river to get to the empire. But in Crimson Flower you need to cross the great bridge of Myrddin to get from the monastery into alliance territory.

Did I mishear something at some point?

I'll have to recheck the script, because Houses doesn't consistently stick to that "you have to cross the Great Bridge" idea in general. The Empire doesn't appear to cross that to get to Garreg Mach at the end of White Clouds, either.

Hopes is MUCH better about keeping that straight.

Kind of annoyed you can't get Freikugel and Axe of Ukonvasara on CF. Ukonvasara especially is a really good weapon. High might, decent crit and armour effectiveness all in one so I don't have to lob around a killer axe, silver axe and hammer to get the same coverage.

But yes, One thing Hopes does better than Houses is a sense of time and geography. Three Houses mostly doesn't give a shit about that and it honestly hurts the immersion. Hopes puts in more effort to care about that.

Literally two missions to defeat the entire alliance.

I forgot just how bad this route is.

Capturing Derdriu is one of the best missions in the game, I will say that. So there's something to enjoy at least.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Literally two missions to defeat the entire alliance.

I forgot just how bad this route is.

Capturing Derdriu is one of the best missions in the game, I will say that. So there's something to enjoy at least.

That part is honestly not that bad. The Alliance is split between forces (more) loyal to the Empire (Gloucester and Ordelia for example) and those loyal to Claude/Derdriu. After taking over the bridge, the next best place to resist is at the capital itself.

Of course, I wouldn't have minded if Crimson Flower decided to incorporate the "Blood of the Eagle and Lion". Would have you start the route off by repelling a joint Kingdom and Alliance attack. That leads nicely into the Bridge chapter followed by conquering Derdriu.

And of course, add in Shambhala + a Nemesis fight and maybe add in a canon fight against Macuil/Indech together somewhere and that would give the route a full 22 main chapters.

DodogamaRayBrst posted...

Literally two missions to defeat the entire alliance.

I forgot just how bad this route is.

Capturing Derdriu is one of the best missions in the game, I will say that. So there's something to enjoy at least.

Kinda what happens when you join the guys that are already winning the war in every other route lmao. It goes from a stomp to a god stomp.