Board 8 > Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 Topic 2

Topic List	Page List: 1, 2, 3
theawesomestevr 06/14/25 8:41:40 PM #51:	KommunistKoala posted... I don't know about the second part with Monoco you mentioned, but the Shield Affinity picto gives you 30% extra damage while you have shields but you lose all of them when you get hit. Yeah, I knew something like that existed, but I didn't think I had it equipped at the time. I wasn't positive though, so didn't want to say for sure one way or the other. I just now went ahead and checked it out, and even without Shield Affinity he loses all 3 shields from the first hit with Chevalam equipped. Dels posted... Sure, that's a valid question - but I don't think it's one most people would be asking in, say, a story where a human's life is being weighed against the life of Apollo or whatever who created them. You could ask it in that case too but I don't think most people would default to the humans being "not real" or just saying its okay if they die because of it. There's a big discussion you could have about if my life is greater value than yours just because I created you, i.e. what does a child owe to their parent is a common question in real life, but I don't necessarily want to have that discussion because my point is people who just say "oh they're not real because we learned someone created them" are sidestepping that entire discussion altogether anyway. If someone wanted to debate that their lives are worth less, that's a totally different thing than just saying "they're not real" as if they're just code with no free will or consciousness. I guess the contention here is that the devs intended these characters within their fiction to be people in their own right, and I would still say that if in fact this was the devs' intention, I think they did a poor job of conveying the idea clearly which leads to the disconnect here. I get your point, and I'm not even saying you're wrong about their intent, but I also don't see them giving these canvas characters human traits to make the player get personally attached to them as emblematic of anything other than this is a video game with a story. Of course, any semi-competent writer is going to give their characters personalities that people can identify with. If they wrote your party to be a bunch of completely mindless robots, the endings, or really any of the story would have had zero emotional impact on the player and the game would be less successful. Dels posted... And anyway, assuming the devs intend us to just think "oh they were painted so they're not real", that would mean that act 3 contains multiple relationship scenes for Lune/Sciel with Verso and that the player is meant to know by now that they're "not real" and so it's all just nothing, just the same as AI coded to talk about missing their husband and parents and bla bla. And I really don't think that's what the devs intended because it would make all of those scenes pretty meaningless. Well, given that both of these endings totally discard Verso's relationships in one way or another, I see that as further evidence this was just a writing trick to attach you to the characters, and a not a deeper statement being made about the narrative. That's part of the problem I have with the writing in general. The story boils down to "it was all a dream" with a family squabble/tragedy mixed in. Most of the game is constantly posing very obvious questions that none of the characters ever ask (if I thought this was the devs intentionally making a statement, this would be another point in favor of the canvas people not having real personhood) in a very obvious attempt to draw intrigue from the player. But none of the actual plot is all that interesting, so the only way to move the story forward is to pose new questions while leaving the previous ones all still hanging the whole way until the end. It's just clumsy writing imo. <cite>theawesomestevr posted [p:985439344] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>KommunistKoala posted...</cite><quote>I don't know about the second part with Monoco you mentioned, but the Shield Affinity picto gives you 30% extra damage while you have shields but you lose all of them when you get hit.</quote>Yeah, I knew something like that existed, but I didn't think I had it equipped at the time. I wasn't positive though, so didn't want to say for sure one way or the other. I just now went ahead and checked it out, and even without Shield Affinity he loses all 3 shields from the first hit with Chevalam equipped.Dels posted...</cite><quote>Sure, that's a valid question - but I don't think it's one most people would be asking in, say, a story where a human's life is being weighed against the life of Apollo or whatever who created them. You could ask it in that case too but I don't think most people would default to the humans being "not real" or just saying its okay if they die because of it. There's a big discussion you could have about if my life is greater value than yours just because I created you, i.e. what does a child owe to their parent is a common question in real life, but I don't necessarily want to have that discussion because my point is people who just say "oh they're not real because we learned someone created them" are sidestepping that entire discussion altogether anyway. If someone wanted to debate that their lives are worth less, that's a totally different thing than just saying "they're not real" as if they're just code with no free will or consciousness.</quote>I guess the contention here is that the devs intended these characters within their fiction to be people in their own right, and I would still say that if in fact this was the devs' intention, I think they did a poor job of conveying the idea clearly which leads to the disconnect here.I get your point, and I'm not even saying you're wrong about their intent, but I also don't see them giving these canvas characters human traits to make the player get personally attached to them as emblematic of anything other than this is a video game with a story. Of course, any semi-competent writer is going to give their characters personalities that people can identify with. If they wrote your party to be a bunch of completely mindless robots, the endings, or really any of the story would have had zero emotional impact on the player and the game would be less successful.Dels posted...</cite><quote>And anyway, assuming the devs intend us to just think "oh they were painted so they're not real", that would mean that act 3 contains multiple relationship scenes for Lune/Sciel with Verso and that the player is meant to know by now that they're "not real" and so it's all just nothing, just the same as AI coded to talk about missing their husband and parents and bla bla. And I really don't think that's what the devs intended because it would make all of those scenes pretty meaningless.</quote>Well, given that both of these endings totally discard Verso's relationships in one way or another, I see that as further evidence this was just a writing trick to attach you to the characters, and a not a deeper statement being made about the narrative.That's part of the problem I have with the writing in general. The story boils down to "it was all a dream" with a family squabble/tragedy mixed in. Most of the game is constantly posing very obvious questions that none of the characters ever ask (if I thought this was the devs intentionally making a statement, this would be another point in favor of the canvas people not having real personhood) in a very obvious attempt to draw intrigue from the player. But none of the actual plot is all that interesting, so the only way to move the story forward is to pose new questions while leaving the previous ones all still hanging the whole way until the end. It's just clumsy writing imo.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
theawesomestevr 06/14/25 9:26:58 PM #52:	MacArrowny posted... By that standard, ~~God wasn't committing mass murder when He flooded the world and wiped out its inhabitants. Which is an absurd take, IMO.~~ These are very different scenarios though. For one, in this game, the canvas world poses a mortal threat to the paintresses. Its existence is actively harming Aline and Alicia and will lead to their deaths (or at least definitively to Alicia's). That's not to even get back into the discussion of the presupposition that the canvas world characters are in fact people of some intrinsic moral value. Secondly, in the biblical narrative, while the people being destroyed are unambiguously people, they're also described as hopelessly corrupt and violent outside of Noah and his family which provides an obvious justification. You can call that genocide or murder, I guess, but would you really have a moral objection to erasing the canvas world if they were all bad guys? <cite>theawesomestevr posted [p:985439787] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>MacArrowny posted...</cite><quote>By that standard, God wasn't committing mass murder when He flooded the world and wiped out its inhabitants. Which is an absurd take, IMO.</quote>These are very different scenarios though. For one, in this game, the canvas world poses a mortal threat to the paintresses. Its existence is actively harming Aline and Alicia and will lead to their deaths (or at least definitively to Alicia's). That's not to even get back into the discussion of the presupposition that the canvas world characters are in fact people of some intrinsic moral value. Secondly, in the biblical narrative, while the people being destroyed are unambiguously people, they're also described as hopelessly corrupt and violent outside of Noah and his family which provides an obvious justification. You can call that genocide or murder, I guess, but would you really have a moral objection to erasing the canvas world if they were all bad guys?</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacArrowny 06/14/25 10:45:25 PM #53:	theawesomestevr posted... I guess the contention here is that the devs intended these characters within their fiction to be people in their own right, and I would still say that if in fact this was the devs' intention, I think they did a poor job of conveying the idea clearly which leads to the disconnect here. Nothing in the story makes ~~Lune, Sciel, and Gustave seem like any less of people than Maelle or Renard.~~ ZaziGuado posted... I should clarify that I use reality not in the sense that there is a real world and the Canvas is a fake world. It's moreso a universe to galaxy comparison. If the family itself is threatened, then so are the galaxies within the universe they exist in. It is implied there are multiple Canvases. Are we to judge the erasure of this one differently because they've been made aware of their reason for being? The last piece of "real" Verso is the only thing keeping the Canvas in existence and he is shown to be suffering by continuing to paint. Is it morally wrong to expect their creator to give himself to an afterlife of struggle and potential torture so that Maelle may continue to hide from her own? Personally I would say ~~the Painters are doing evil every time they create a canvas with intelligent creatures inside and erase them later.~~ --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. <cite>MacArrowny posted [p:985440423] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>theawesomestevr posted... </cite><quote>I guess the contention here is that the devs intended these characters within their fiction to be people in their own right, and I would still say that if in fact this was the devs' intention, I think they did a poor job of conveying the idea clearly which leads to the disconnect here.</quote>Nothing in the story makes Lune, Sciel, and Gustave seem like any less of people than Maelle or Renard.ZaziGuado posted... </cite><quote>I should clarify that I use reality not in the sense that there is a real world and the Canvas is a fake world. It's moreso a universe to galaxy comparison. If the family itself is threatened, then so are the galaxies within the universe they exist in. It is implied there are multiple Canvases. Are we to judge the erasure of this one differently because they've been made aware of their reason for being? The last piece of "real" Verso is the only thing keeping the Canvas in existence and he is shown to be suffering by continuing to paint. Is it morally wrong to expect their creator to give himself to an afterlife of struggle and potential torture so that Maelle may continue to hide from her own?</quote>Personally I would say the Painters are doing evil every time they create a canvas with intelligent creatures inside and erase them later.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZaziGuado 06/14/25 11:00:15 PM #54:	The end extreme of that already extreme argument would be that the creation of all life is evil since all life will eventually cease to be. The Big Bang was an occurrence of evil. Or if you want to take a religious bent with it, God is evil by creating non-immortal life. --- snowpork azuarc is OP. <cite>ZaziGuado posted [p:985440543] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>The end extreme of that already extreme argument would be that the creation of all life is evil since all life will eventually cease to be. The Big Bang was an occurrence of evil. Or if you want to take a religious bent with it, God is evil by creating non-immortal life.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wallmasterz 06/14/25 11:46:01 PM #55:	I beat the game. Chose ~~Versos ending, then watched Maelles on YouTube.~~ Feels like I made the right choice, but it still sucks. Edit: the outcome, not the game or ending. I thought it was a phenomenal game with a fantastic ending. I have a lot of content left to do, and I may go for the plat. Probably will tackle Frozen Hearts next. --- I need to update my signature. <cite>wallmasterz posted [p:985440879] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I beat the game.Chose Versos ending, then watched Maelles on YouTube.Feels like I made the right choice, but it still sucks. Edit: the outcome, not the game or ending. I thought it was a phenomenal game with a fantastic ending.I have a lot of content left to do, and I may go for the plat. Probably will tackle Frozen Hearts next.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wallmasterz 06/17/25 7:42:14 AM #56:	Been quiet the last couple days since everyone is done with the game Since beating the game Ive just spent time in Frozen Hearts and Dark Shores leveling up my weapons. Ive got a level 32 weapon for my main party members (Verso, Maelle and Lune). Im going for the plat. Last couple nights Ive gotten the combat trophies for Lune/Maelle and one for reaching level 66. I still need to finish up the journals, music records, Nevron quests, Gestral games, lost Gestrals, max out a few relationships, Monocos skill tree, level 99, a few combat trophies, max out a weapon, endless tower and all the super bosses. Theres a lot to do! --- I need to update my signature. <cite>wallmasterz posted [p:985465886] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Been quiet the last couple days since everyone is done with the game Since beating the game Ive just spent time in Frozen Hearts and Dark Shores leveling up my weapons. Ive got a level 32 weapon for my main party members (Verso, Maelle and Lune).Im going for the plat. Last couple nights Ive gotten the combat trophies for Lune/Maelle and one for reaching level 66.I still need to finish up the journals, music records, Nevron quests, Gestral games, lost Gestrals, max out a few relationships, Monocos skill tree, level 99, a few combat trophies, max out a weapon, endless tower and all the super bosses.Theres a lot to do!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ZaziGuado 06/17/25 8:58:52 AM #57:	I've just been exploring the continent and going to areas that the game doesn't warn me are dangerous. My team is at level 70 or thereabouts. It's been fun getting the new pictos and truly exploring the different ways I can build each character. However this does highlight some of the annoyances with the system like the lack of loadouts. I absolutely love the gameplay foundation in place and the fact that there are obvious areas of improvement only heightens any hype for a follow-up game that utilizes it, whether that be in the world of Clair Obscur or not. --- snowpork <cite>ZaziGuado posted [p:985466327] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I've just been exploring the continent and going to areas that the game doesn't warn me are dangerous. My team is at level 70 or thereabouts. It's been fun getting the new pictos and truly exploring the different ways I can build each character. However this does highlight some of the annoyances with the system like the lack of loadouts.I absolutely love the gameplay foundation in place and the fact that there are obvious areas of improvement only heightens any hype for a follow-up game that utilizes it, whether that be in the world of Clair Obscur or not.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
azuarc 06/17/25 9:38:03 AM #58:	wallmasterz posted... Been quiet the last couple days since everyone is done with the game I just kinda stopped after act 2. In theory I have more to do, but I wasn't really enjoying the little bit of act 3 I played. --- Only the exceptions can be exceptional. <cite>azuarc posted [p:985466689] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>wallmasterz posted... </cite><quote>Been quiet the last couple days since everyone is done with the game</quote>I just kinda stopped after act 2. In theory I have more to do, but I wasn't really enjoying the little bit of act 3 I played.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wallmasterz 06/17/25 9:54:43 AM #59:	ZaziGuado I agree with everything you said. azuarc what parts of act 3 did you play? I think the ending is worth it. The amount of optional content relative to the main story content is pretty staggering --- I need to update my signature. <cite>wallmasterz posted [p:985466850] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>ZaziGuado I agree with everything you said.azuarc what parts of act 3 did you play? I think the ending is worth it. The amount of optional content relative to the main story content is pretty staggering</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
SHINE_GET_64 06/17/25 9:59:17 AM #60:	Act 3 was my favorite part because i finally got to do all the side content I had been ignoring all game and the part where you completely break the battle system is also my favorite part of all jrpgs --- https://imgtc.com/i/iJnhdkc.gif https://imgtc.com/i/j45EVGx.png <cite>SHINE_GET_64 posted [p:985466893] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Act 3 was my favorite part because i finally got to do all the side content I had been ignoring all game and the part where you completely break the battle system is also my favorite part of all jrpgs</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
azuarc 06/17/25 10:38:44 AM #61:	My favorite part of jrpgs is the part where I can watch the combat without having to hit precisely timed inputs. --- Only the exceptions can be exceptional. <cite>azuarc posted [p:985467282] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>My favorite part of jrpgs is the part where I can watch the combat without having to hit precisely timed inputs.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skullbone 06/17/25 10:42:48 AM #62:	I'm starting to think this guy doesn't like dodging or parrying in the game. --- skull <cite>skullbone posted [p:985467322] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I'm starting to think this guy doesn't like dodging or parrying in the game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
colliding 06/17/25 10:48:56 AM #63:	I think CO does the timed button press thing much better than most. For example, a lot of people praised Sea of Stars's combat, but to me I found it awful. I also haven't really vibed with a Mario & Luigi game since Inside Story because I'm sick of the timed button presses. They usually make the combat go on too long. CO's combat - when it works - is still able to finish within two turns most of the time. I definitely used auto-qte, but I understand why there isn't an auto-dodge / auto-parry, since that would break the game. I do wish there was a middle ground between story and expeditioner, because story was too easy and expeditioner was a bit overly punishing. It's my philosophy that you shouldn't have to die the first time you fight a main story boss because you don't know their attacks and patterns. I guess FromSoft has popularized the "die and retry" aspect of gaming, but I still like the idea of being able to win a challenging fight on the first try. --- while you slept, the world changed <cite>colliding posted [p:985467381] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I think CO does the timed button press thing much better than most. For example, a lot of people praised Sea of Stars's combat, but to me I found it awful. I also haven't really vibed with a Mario & Luigi game since Inside Story because I'm sick of the timed button presses. They usually make the combat go on too long.CO's combat - when it works - is still able to finish within two turns most of the time. I definitely used auto-qte, but I understand why there isn't an auto-dodge / auto-parry, since that would break the game. I do wish there was a middle ground between story and expeditioner, because story was too easy and expeditioner was a bit overly punishing. It's my philosophy that you shouldn't have to die the first time you fight a main story boss because you don't know their attacks and patterns. I guess FromSoft has popularized the "die and retry" aspect of gaming, but I still like the idea of being able to win a challenging fight on the first try. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacArrowny 06/17/25 10:55:00 AM #64:	colliding posted... a lot of people praised Sea of Stars's combat hmm, I feel like I see more criticism, personally. I do agree that the brevity of E33 is way better than some of the competition. Defending in Mario and Luigi games takes way too long. I swear there are times you have to spend a minute plus defending, and it's boring as hell. E33 is closer to SMRPG in how zippy it is. --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. <cite>MacArrowny posted [p:985467446] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>colliding posted... </cite><quote>a lot of people praised Sea of Stars's combat</quote>hmm, I feel like I see more criticism, personally.I do agree that the brevity of E33 is way better than some of the competition. Defending in Mario and Luigi games takes way too long. I swear there are times you have to spend a minute plus defending, and it's boring as hell. E33 is closer to SMRPG in how zippy it is.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
azuarc 06/17/25 11:03:51 AM #65:	I didn't like Sea of Stars combat, either. It was much too slow because of all the gimmicky crap. Like, do you really want to sit and bat your moonerang back at enemies for 6 seconds every time you use the skill? I also thought the lock system was really stupid. COE33 is "slow" as well, in the sense that there's a much longer period between your inputs and the events completing basic JRPG combat, but it does it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm just wasting my time. ~~(Outside of certain optional fights.)~~ --- Only the exceptions can be exceptional. <cite>azuarc posted [p:985467533] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I didn't like Sea of Stars combat, either. It was much too slow because of all the gimmicky crap. Like, do you really want to sit and bat your moonerang back at enemies for 6 seconds every time you use the skill? I also thought the lock system was really stupid.COE33 is "slow" as well, in the sense that there's a much longer period between your inputs and the events completing basic JRPG combat, but it does it in a way that doesn't make me feel like I'm just wasting my time. (Outside of certain optional fights.)</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
skullbone 06/17/25 11:15:50 AM #66:	Sea of Stars combat was fine but some of the successful timings felt pretty arbitrary, especially for basic attacks. I appreciate parrying and dodging bringing more people into this genre but I think the game could have benefited from a block button too or something. An option to completely negate damage in combat means that the damage needs to be really high when you do get hit. It's a fun risk/reward but they forgot to add the middle option where you don't want to take the risk in the first place. Maybe they could cut the overall damage in half so that taking hits doesn't do as much damage. But if you try to parry or dodge and mess it up then you take double damage from that hit. --- skull <cite>skullbone posted [p:985467642] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Sea of Stars combat was fine but some of the successful timings felt pretty arbitrary, especially for basic attacks. I appreciate parrying and dodging bringing more people into this genre but I think the game could have benefited from a block button too or something. An option to completely negate damage in combat means that the damage needs to be really high when you do get hit. It's a fun risk/reward but they forgot to add the middle option where you don't want to take the risk in the first place. Maybe they could cut the overall damage in half so that taking hits doesn't do as much damage. But if you try to parry or dodge and mess it up then you take double damage from that hit. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacArrowny 06/17/25 11:53:26 AM #67:	skullbone posted... Maybe they could cut the overall damage in half so that taking hits doesn't do as much damage. There are luminas for that. --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. <cite>MacArrowny posted [p:985468128] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>skullbone posted... </cite><quote>Maybe they could cut the overall damage in half so that taking hits doesn't do as much damage.</quote>There are luminas for that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kevwaffles 06/17/25 12:16:17 PM #68:	MacArrowny posted... hmm, I feel like I see more criticism, personally. This really comes down to how long you paid attention to Sea of Stars discourse. It was insanely hyped up before release but people turned on it hard. They are cowards for removing this, though: https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/29e0e753.jpg --- "One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land." -Toad, SMB3 <cite>kevwaffles posted [p:985468411] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>MacArrowny posted... </cite><quote>hmm, I feel like I see more criticism, personally.</quote>This really comes down to how long you paid attention to Sea of Stars discourse. It was insanely hyped up before release but people turned on it hard.They are cowards for removing this, though:https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/29e0e753.jpg</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
Dels 06/17/25 2:00:42 PM #69:	I like timed hits but I think they could've gone further with it. I feel like especially as the game went on, so many attacks had the "tap twice as your character charges up, then no more taps" pattern and I'd rather be tapping as I actually hit the enemy! <cite>Dels posted [p:985469631] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I like timed hits but I think they could've gone further with it. I feel like especially as the game went on, so many attacks had the "tap twice as your character charges up, then no more taps" pattern and I'd rather be tapping as I actually hit the enemy!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mcflubbin 06/17/25 2:27:50 PM #70:	Slowly but surely making progress through Act 1. I've been keeping my play sessions pretty short since my computer sounds like it's gonna explode while the game is running. I wanted to say Gustave really endeared himself to me when he yelled the 'password' at the Gestral in Esquie's Nest, and then felt really bad when the Gestral started to sulk. The rest of the party's like "he's just a dumb Gestral, he'll forget this in a minute", but Gustave felt so bad that he sincerely apologized like three times before moving on. And I lowkey felt seen, because I would have acted the exact same way in that situation lol Really enjoying the game so far! --- It's not so impossible! <cite>mcflubbin posted [p:985470014] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Slowly but surely making progress through Act 1. I've been keeping my play sessions pretty short since my computer sounds like it's gonna explode while the game is running. I wanted to say Gustave really endeared himself to me when he yelled the 'password' at the Gestral in Esquie's Nest, and then felt really bad when the Gestral started to sulk. The rest of the party's like "he's just a dumb Gestral, he'll forget this in a minute", but Gustave felt so bad that he sincerely apologized like three times before moving on. And I lowkey felt seen, because I would have acted the exact same way in that situation lol Really enjoying the game so far!</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
wallmasterz 06/17/25 2:45:48 PM #71:	Yeah that was adorable. Gustave is a great character --- I need to update my signature. <cite>wallmasterz posted [p:985470225] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Yeah that was adorable. Gustave is a great character</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 06/17/25 7:07:57 PM #72:	Nice I beat Simon first try. I think I broke the game lol. Maelle did like 40 million with her level 3 gradient attack --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:985473339] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Nice I beat Simon first try. I think I broke the game lol. Maelle did like 40 million with her level 3 gradient attack </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 06/17/25 9:25:22 PM #73:	Even with the 100x health multiplier on I was still able to kill the final boss without him getting a turn. The game is a masterpiece but the end game scaling definitely needed more work --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:985474769] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Even with the 100x health multiplier on I was still able to kill the final boss without him getting a turn. The game is a masterpiece but the end game scaling definitely needed more work</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 06/17/25 10:07:02 PM #74:	Yeah I googled it and I do have to replay the whole game on ng+ to get this last record I need for the platinum. Great....time to go on story difficulty and skip some cutscenes I guess --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:985475225] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Yeah I googled it and I do have to replay the whole game on ng+ to get this last record I need for the platinum. Great....time to go on story difficulty and skip some cutscenes I guess </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 06/17/25 11:56:41 PM #76:	Ok I speedran back to the first axon in ng+ and beat it to get the last track I was missing at camp and I didn't get the trophy. I have all 33 songs in my quest items inventory. Do I need to get every song again solely in this playthrough? That seems like a terrible design choice. I don't know if I can be bothered to go and collect them all again --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:985476293] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Ok I speedran back to the first axon in ng+ and beat it to get the last track I was missing at camp and I didn't get the trophy. I have all 33 songs in my quest items inventory. Do I need to get every song again solely in this playthrough? That seems like a terrible design choice. I don't know if I can be bothered to go and collect them all again </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
theawesomestevr 06/18/25 12:23:03 AM #77:	_stingers_ posted... Yeah I googled it and I do have to replay the whole game on ng+ to get this last record I need for the platinum. Great....time to go on story difficulty and skip some cutscenes I guess I can't say for certain because I got the one from the mime in the prolog, but my understanding of it was that there's a copy of it in the opera house in Act 3 if you didn't already have it, and I don't think any of the rest of the records are missable. <cite>theawesomestevr posted [p:985476528] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>_stingers_ posted...</cite><quote>Yeah I googled it and I do have to replay the whole game on ng+ to get this last record I need for the platinum. Great....time to go on story difficulty and skip some cutscenes I guess </quote>I can't say for certain because I got the one from the mime in the prolog, but my understanding of it was that there's a copy of it in the opera house in Act 3 if you didn't already have it, and I don't think any of the rest of the records are missable.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MZero 06/18/25 4:37:16 AM #78:	theawesomestevr posted... I can't say for certain because I got the one from the mime in the prolog, but my understanding of it was that there's a copy of it in the opera house in Act 3 if you didn't already have it, and I don't think any of the rest of the records are missable. There's one you get from "checking on the others" at camp after Visages that is missable <cite>MZero posted [p:985477875] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>theawesomestevr posted... </cite><quote>I can't say for certain because I got the one from the mime in the prolog, but my understanding of it was that there's a copy of it in the opera house in Act 3 if you didn't already have it, and I don't think any of the rest of the records are missable.</quote>There's one you get from "checking on the others" at camp after Visages that is missable</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
theawesomestevr 06/18/25 6:46:46 AM #80:	MZero posted... There's one you get from "checking on the others" at camp after Visages that is missable Ah, I see. I'm guessing I got that scene after doing Sirene, since I went there first, but I also didn't realize that was missable. My bad. <cite>theawesomestevr posted [p:985478336] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>MZero posted...</cite><quote>There's one you get from "checking on the others" at camp after Visages that is missable</quote>Ah, I see. I'm guessing I got that scene after doing Sirene, since I went there first, but I also didn't realize that was missable. My bad.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
KommunistKoala 06/18/25 12:21:22 PM #81:	not checking on others every time you see it deserved tbqh --- does anyone even read this <cite>KommunistKoala posted [p:985481391] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>not checking on others every time you see itdeserved tbqh</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kevwaffles 06/18/25 1:54:21 PM #82:	So question. In Act 3. Maxed all relationships. Anything else plot critical to focus on before beating it? I want to do everything but DS2 comes out next week so that may have to go on the back burner. --- "One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land." -Toad, SMB3 <cite>kevwaffles posted [p:985482521] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>So question.In Act 3. Maxed all relationships.Anything else plot critical to focus on before beating it? I want to do everything but DS2 comes out next week so that may have to go on the back burner.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacArrowny 06/18/25 2:05:35 PM #83:	If you've done the characters' side quests you should be good. --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. <cite>MacArrowny posted [p:985482635] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>If you've done the characters' side quests you should be good.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ffmasterjose 06/20/25 3:43:11 PM #84:	Got back on this game since I've been sitting at the end of the game for about a month and I have this tendency to not finish single player games I flat out got annoyed at the game for opening up so much but also being so vague as to where I should go that won't insta 1-shot me lol. But some grinding levels and cooler heads have prevailed! Hoping to beated the game within the next day or so --- 1 line break(s), 160 characters allowed <cite>ffmasterjose posted [p:985506570] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Got back on this game since I've been sitting at the end of the game for about a month and I have this tendency to not finish single player gamesI flat out got annoyed at the game for opening up so much but also being so vague as to where I should go that won't insta 1-shot me lol. But some grinding levels and cooler heads have prevailed!Hoping to beated the game within the next day or so</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CoolCly 06/20/25 4:01:17 PM #85:	stole this from reddit but it seems to apply to this board https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/ce1b82d3.jpg --- The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG <cite>CoolCly posted [p:985506741] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>stole this from reddit but it seems to apply to this boardhttps://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/ce1b82d3.jpg</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
ffmasterjose 06/21/25 9:11:09 AM #86:	Game beated. Definitely gonna end up being my game of the year, but I do only play like 3 or 4 games a year so the competition isn't fierce. --- 1 line break(s), 160 characters allowed <cite>ffmasterjose posted [p:985513465] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Game beated. Definitely gonna end up being my game of the year, but I do only play like 3 or 4 games a year so the competition isn't fierce. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 06/24/25 12:02:17 AM #87:	I'm a little behind you all- just got control back at ~~the start of act 3~~. I've been enjoying the game, but I was skeptical ~~that the story was going to pay off. Thankfully, it has been paying off. Not usually into this sort of story beat, but it's done so well.~~ I'll save more discussion until I'm done, just wanted to pop in and give the thumbs up. --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:985544003] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I'm a little behind you all- just got control back at the start of act 3. I've been enjoying the game, but I was skeptical that the story was going to pay off. Thankfully, it has been paying off. Not usually into this sort of story beat, but it's done so well. I'll save more discussion until I'm done, just wanted to pop in and give the thumbs up.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kevwaffles 06/24/25 1:46:24 AM #88:	banananor posted... I'm a little behind you all- just got control back at ~~the start of act 3~~. I've been enjoying the game, but I was skeptical ~~that the story was going to pay off. Thankfully, it has been paying off. Not usually into this sort of story beat, but it's done so well.~~ I'll save more discussion until I'm done, just wanted to pop in and give the thumbs up. It's kind of a much better version of imo the worst plot twist of all time. I feel plenty of you probably have to know what game I mean. --- "One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land." -Toad, SMB3 <cite>kevwaffles posted [p:985544607] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>banananor posted... </cite><quote>I'm a little behind you all- just got control back at the start of act 3. I've been enjoying the game, but I was skeptical that the story was going to pay off. Thankfully, it has been paying off. Not usually into this sort of story beat, but it's done so well. I'll save more discussion until I'm done, just wanted to pop in and give the thumbs up.</quote>It's kind of a much better version of imo the worst plot twist of all time. I feel plenty of you probably have to know what game I mean.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 06/24/25 12:05:10 PM #89:	The kinda funny thing is that I know what you're talking about just via osmosis from this board. I did play the game! I just only made it maybe 10 hours in. Thank goodness it turned me off before it could do that to me --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:985548224] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>The kinda funny thing is that I know what you're talking about just via osmosis from this board. I did play the game! I just only made it maybe 10 hours in. Thank goodness it turned me off before it could do that to me</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
colliding 06/24/25 2:26:55 PM #90:	kevwaffles posted... It's kind of a much better version of imo the worst plot twist of all time. I feel plenty of you probably have to know what game I mean. I mean there's so many games/movies that have this twist but I'm going to guess that you mean ~~Star Ocean: Till the End of Time~~. Honestly it doesn't even feel like a twist in this game. --- while you slept, the world changed <cite>colliding posted [p:985550122] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>kevwaffles posted... </cite><quote>It's kind of a much better version of imo the worst plot twist of all time. I feel plenty of you probably have to know what game I mean.</quote>I mean there's so many games/movies that have this twist but I'm going to guess that you mean Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. Honestly it doesn't even feel like a twist in this game. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
mcflubbin 06/24/25 2:30:23 PM #91:	I also just got to the start of Act 3 last night. I'm hoping the game can stick the landing, because I've been enjoying just about every aspect of it so far. --- It's not so impossible! <cite>mcflubbin posted [p:985550172] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I also just got to the start of Act 3 last night. I'm hoping the game can stick the landing, because I've been enjoying just about every aspect of it so far. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
CoolCly 06/24/25 3:09:31 PM #92:	Common advice for when people start Act 3 - you can go straight to Lumiere and do the final sequence to beat the game right now. If you want it to be a challenge, you should just go do it right now. There is a TON of act 3 content, but if you go do it, the final boss will be a breeze after. People usually just do the final boss then go back and do the other content afterwards. --- The batman villians all seem to be one big joke that batman refuses to laugh at - SantaRPG <cite>CoolCly posted [p:985550620] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Common advice for when people start Act 3 - you can go straight to Lumiere and do the final sequence to beat the game right now. If you want it to be a challenge, you should just go do it right now. There is a TON of act 3 content, but if you go do it, the final boss will be a breeze after. People usually just do the final boss then go back and do the other content afterwards.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
kevwaffles 06/24/25 3:57:26 PM #93:	colliding posted... I mean there's so many games/movies that have this twist but I'm going to guess that you mean ~~Star Ocean: Till the End of Time~~. Honestly it doesn't even feel like a twist in this game. Correct, and that's actually a large part of what makes it work here. The evidence is everywhere. --- "One toot on this whistle will take you to a far away land." -Toad, SMB3 <cite>kevwaffles posted [p:985551127] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>colliding posted... </cite><quote>I mean there's so many games/movies that have this twist but I'm going to guess that you mean Star Ocean: Till the End of Time. Honestly it doesn't even feel like a twist in this game.</quote>Correct, and that's actually a large part of what makes it work here. The evidence is everywhere.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
colliding 06/24/25 4:14:44 PM #94:	CoolCly posted... Common advice for when people start Act 3 - you can go straight to Lumiere and do the final sequence to beat the game right now. If you want it to be a challenge, you should just go do it right now. There is a TON of act 3 content, but if you go do it, the final boss will be a breeze after. People usually just do the final boss then go back and do the other content afterwards. I will disagree on this slightly and say ~~that you should at least do the character-specific quests unlocked through camp~~. Challenge wise they're not difficult and they won't over level you, and they have story significance --- while you slept, the world changed <cite>colliding posted [p:985551318] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>CoolCly posted... </cite><quote>Common advice for when people start Act 3 - you can go straight to Lumiere and do the final sequence to beat the game right now. If you want it to be a challenge, you should just go do it right now. There is a TON of act 3 content, but if you go do it, the final boss will be a breeze after. People usually just do the final boss then go back and do the other content afterwards.</quote>I will disagree on this slightly and say that you should at least do the character-specific quests unlocked through camp. Challenge wise they're not difficult and they won't over level you, and they have story significance</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
BK_Sheikah00 06/24/25 4:27:51 PM #95:	Not a problem anymore since you can just put HP x20 nowadays for the final dungeon. Even HP x100 if you are that strong. --- Congrats to azuarc for winning GOTD2 http://i.imgur.com/v58wdlU.png <cite>BK_Sheikah00 posted [p:985551469] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Not a problem anymore since you can just put HP x20 nowadays for the final dungeon. Even HP x100 if you are that strong.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
_stingers_ 06/24/25 4:53:43 PM #96:	I did HPx100 and the final boss still didnt get a turn lol --- Congrats Black Turtle! <cite>_stingers_ posted [p:985551735] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>I did HPx100 and the final boss still didnt get a turn lol</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 06/25/25 5:14:54 PM #97:	Finished the game. Now that I have all the narrative information the game is willing to share, I feel like I can talk about it. Gonna "curate" a wall of text in a bit. kevwaffles posted... Correct, and that's actually a large part of what makes it work here. The evidence is everywhere. Agreed! _stingers_ posted... I did HPx100 and the final boss still didnt get a turn lol Yeah. I don't mind it too much- outscaling the final boss is a tradition of the genre at this point --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:985563239] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Finished the game. Now that I have all the narrative information the game is willing to share, I feel like I can talk about it. Gonna "curate" a wall of text in a bit.kevwaffles posted... </cite><quote>Correct, and that's actually a large part of what makes it work here. The evidence is everywhere.</quote>Agreed!_stingers_ posted... </cite><quote>I did HPx100 and the final boss still didnt get a turn lol</quote>Yeah. I don't mind it too much- outscaling the final boss is a tradition of the genre at this point</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 06/25/25 6:09:14 PM #98:	Warning- endgame spoilers abound. I enjoyed the journey. It was nice to experience essentially a story-based JRPG with my least favorite anime tropes removed. The game's very clearly inspired by FFX and, to a certain extent, FFXIII. I swear I almost heard 'to zanarkand' play once or twice. The combat system's great, even though there were a few mechanics I never fully figured out (how the initial turn order is determined, why thermal transfer's bonus turn sometimes works with no earth/light stains, stuff like that). The art style is fantastic. The music's extremely competent. Humorously, it blows my mind that the game teased 2 casinos, neither of which had any games in them. Also humorously, my favorite moment in any video game is when a character shouts "this is not a game!" I also loved the edginess in some zones/past expeditions. "We're bleeding out, but at least we can create a 15 foot bridge with our bodies!!!" was my favorite. The scene to scene writing was good on average. A big plus to the story is that pretty much everything either has a diagetic/"watsonian" explanation (even if it is ~~"they are insane"), or can be handwaved by the core magic system... although the system should've been fleshed out more if we wanted the ending to really hit.~~ This touches on what I consider a couple of weak points- explanation and perspective. In my opinion, both of those started getting shaky at the beginning of act 2. Even earlier in retrospect, given endgame spoilers. I know why they were sacrificed- to heighten drama- but it didn't work for me. From the instant Verso appeared on the screen, my spidey senses told me this was the writer's favorite OC- other characters and the story as a whole were going to warp to accommodate his storyline. I don't have a rational explanation for that instinct. Partially his design, partially the framing of his initial scenes and his facial expressions, partially the foreshadowing by Esquie. I dunno. But I ended up being right. It broke my suspension of disbelief that in a role-playing game I was now playing as a character clearly hiding their core roleplaying motivations from me. Didn't help that there were multiple scenes of Lune going "you need to explain XYZ part of the backstory/situation", Verso saying "haha. okay, let's do it", and then some kind of explanation happening off-screen. Why does the reacher as well as the final hour of the game have various characters taking turns holding the idiot ball? To prop up Verso's melodrama. They should've made Lune the main character for a while in my humble opinion- her perspective more closely matches the player's at that point. Another example of explanation/perspective issues was in Old Lumiere. There's a scene where Lune and Sciel happen upon an important message. They quietly read it (the player can't see), shout "oh no, this is such an important message! we'd better find the others and tell them!", and then the scene ends. The messaging is also all over the place. In the end, every native life in the painted world is implied to be meaningless... except for Verso's. Even though everyone else was just as sentient as he was. I know the correct explanation is that the entire game is a set of allegories about grief designed from the top down, and everything else is there either to support said allegories or to entertain you enough to keep you sitting through them- you're not supposed to nitpick. There's a quote near the end where an NPC tells you that grieving is worse than being dead, and I think if you apply that logic then everything else kind of falls into place. I don't agree, but it's still cool as long as I can see their rationale. In retrospect, I'm not quite certain why the Curator needed the party to kill Visage/Sirene when he created them in the first place. I suppose they functioned as a chroma storage system, to keep it away from the Paintress. I'm not quite sure why the Paintress never bothered to explain anything to the denizens of Lumiere. Insanity, I suppose, but that isn't satisfying, and it's hard to imagine the thought never occurring over the course of 67 years. I don't understand how the Curator could be trapped in the painting for so long, but I suppose that can be hand-waved by the unknowns of the magic system. It was mentioned they "knew the costs of painting", but I wish I had been made more explicitly privy to them. My only technical complaints are 1) it was tedious to figure out which order to tackle optional zones 2) the world map was great, but i wish there were more towns instead of just caves 3) and I GUESS it would be nice to have a loadout system. With regard to the endings/final hour... I consider it character assassination of the entire cast (sans Verso) in order to make the desired thematic point. It's kinda Disney Marvel style- 'oh shit, the wrong character has a point, time to make them shoot a puppy and omit their strongest arguments'. Am I team Maelle or team Verso? Knowing the endings, I think I'm begrudgingly team Clea (despite her callousness- who abandons their sibling to 16 years of unhappiness?)- it's time to go after the writers. --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:985563929] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>Warning- endgame spoilers abound.I enjoyed the journey. It was nice to experience essentially a story-based JRPG with my least favorite anime tropes removed. The game's very clearly inspired by FFX and, to a certain extent, FFXIII. I swear I almost heard 'to zanarkand' play once or twice.The combat system's great, even though there were a few mechanics I never fully figured out (how the initial turn order is determined, why thermal transfer's bonus turn sometimes works with no earth/light stains, stuff like that). The art style is fantastic. The music's extremely competent.Humorously, it blows my mind that the game teased 2 casinos, neither of which had any games in them. Also humorously, my favorite moment in any video game is when a character shouts "this is not a game!" I also loved the edginess in some zones/past expeditions. "We're bleeding out, but at least we can create a 15 foot bridge with our bodies!!!" was my favorite.The scene to scene writing was good on average. A big plus to the story is that pretty much everything either has a diagetic/"watsonian" explanation (even if it is "they are insane"), or can be handwaved by the core magic system... although the system should've been fleshed out more if we wanted the ending to really hit.This touches on what I consider a couple of weak points- explanation and perspective. In my opinion, both of those started getting shaky at the beginning of act 2. Even earlier in retrospect, given endgame spoilers. I know why they were sacrificed- to heighten drama- but it didn't work for me.From the instant Verso appeared on the screen, my spidey senses told me this was the writer's favorite OC- other characters and the story as a whole were going to warp to accommodate his storyline. I don't have a rational explanation for that instinct. Partially his design, partially the framing of his initial scenes and his facial expressions, partially the foreshadowing by Esquie. I dunno. But I ended up being right. It broke my suspension of disbelief that in a role-playing game I was now playing as a character clearly hiding their core roleplaying motivations from me. Didn't help that there were multiple scenes of Lune going "you need to explain XYZ part of the backstory/situation", Verso saying "haha. okay, let's do it", and then some kind of explanation happening off-screen. Why does the reacher as well as the final hour of the game have various characters taking turns holding the idiot ball? To prop up Verso's melodrama. They should've made Lune the main character for a while in my humble opinion- her perspective more closely matches the player's at that point.Another example of explanation/perspective issues was in Old Lumiere. There's a scene where Lune and Sciel happen upon an important message. They quietly read it (the player can't see), shout "oh no, this is such an important message! we'd better find the others and tell them!", and then the scene ends.The messaging is also all over the place. In the end, every native life in the painted world is implied to be meaningless... except for Verso's. Even though everyone else was just as sentient as he was.I know the correct explanation is that the entire game is a set of allegories about grief designed from the top down, and everything else is there either to support said allegories or to entertain you enough to keep you sitting through them- you're not supposed to nitpick. There's a quote near the end where an NPC tells you that grieving is worse than being dead, and I think if you apply that logic then everything else kind of falls into place. I don't agree, but it's still cool as long as I can see their rationale.In retrospect, I'm not quite certain why the Curator needed the party to kill Visage/Sirene when he created them in the first place. I suppose they functioned as a chroma storage system, to keep it away from the Paintress. I'm not quite sure why the Paintress never bothered to explain anything to the denizens of Lumiere. Insanity, I suppose, but that isn't satisfying, and it's hard to imagine the thought never occurring over the course of 67 years. I don't understand how the Curator could be trapped in the painting for so long, but I suppose that can be hand-waved by the unknowns of the magic system. It was mentioned they "knew the costs of painting", but I wish I had been made more explicitly privy to them.My only technical complaints are 1) it was tedious to figure out which order to tackle optional zones 2) the world map was great, but i wish there were more towns instead of just caves 3) and I GUESS it would be nice to have a loadout system.With regard to the endings/final hour... I consider it character assassination of the entire cast (sans Verso) in order to make the desired thematic point. It's kinda Disney Marvel style- 'oh shit, the wrong character has a point, time to make them shoot a puppy and omit their strongest arguments'. Am I team Maelle or team Verso? Knowing the endings, I think I'm begrudgingly team Clea (despite her callousness- who abandons their sibling to 16 years of unhappiness?)- it's time to go after the writers.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacArrowny 06/25/25 6:13:36 PM #99:	banananor posted... ~~In the end, every native life in the painted world is implied to be meaningless~~ I don't think the game implied this at all. --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. <cite>MacArrowny posted [p:985563973] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>banananor posted... </cite><quote>In the end, every native life in the painted world is implied to be meaningless</quote>I don't think the game implied this at all.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
banananor 06/25/25 6:23:09 PM #100:	MacArrowny posted... I don't think the game implied this at all. Can't argue with that logic! I'd be happy to be wrong, and I could/should have phrased it differently! I think the tonal implication of the final cutscene(s) is more literally that Maelle 100% should have moved on, left the painting and allowed everyone to die. I do agree that doesn't imply their lives are meaningless, just that they are considered unimportant or ancillary to the writers. I can back that up by referencing Maelle's final cutscene- Maelle goes insane, Verso is in constant pain, and nobody else notices even though it's obvious. The tone of the scene is entirely negative. It's my opinion that the other characters should matter just as much, but the framing of the ending implies it was the wrong choice. I can also back it up by the final hour ~~not referencing the well-being of the world's denizens at all, only the painters' personal needs. Not even the denizens themselves chime in with that.~~ --- You did indeed stab me in the back. However, you are only level one, whilst I am level 50. That means I should remain uninjured. <cite>banananor posted [p:985564064] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>MacArrowny posted... </cite><quote>I don't think the game implied this at all.</quote>Can't argue with that logic!I'd be happy to be wrong, and I could/should have phrased it differently! I think the tonal implication of the final cutscene(s) is more literally that Maelle 100% should have moved on, left the painting and allowed everyone to die. I do agree that doesn't imply their lives are meaningless, just that they are considered unimportant or ancillary to the writers.I can back that up by referencing Maelle's final cutscene- Maelle goes insane, Verso is in constant pain, and nobody else notices even though it's obvious. The tone of the scene is entirely negative. It's my opinion that the other characters should matter just as much, but the framing of the ending implies it was the wrong choice.I can also back it up by the final hour not referencing the well-being of the world's denizens at all, only the painters' personal needs. Not even the denizens themselves chime in with that.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
colliding 06/25/25 7:39:12 PM #101:	The ending is essentially a retelling of Ursula LeGuin's short story "The Ones who Walk Away from Omelas," in which a utopian city relies on the suffering of a single child. It's just that in Clair Obsur, it isn't about "walking away," but instead "mercy killing" the child. If there were a "walk away" option, it would look like Maelle fixing everything, getting a handle on her grief, and leaving the painting so that she avoids becoming the new Paintress. She could then visit occasionally, while Little Boy Verso continues painting and suffering. From what I can tell, the main reason the player base is so divided over these endings is because that Maelle's is clearly treated as the "bad ending" and Verso's is obviously framed as the "good ending," even though that "good ending" involves the genocide of the sentient people and beings of Lumiere. If not for the horror jumpscare of Maelle's face and the warm fuzzy "party waves goodbye at the grave" scene, there would be more of an ambivalence between them. I think this is what the game devs were trying to do, but somewhere along the way they decided to be more obvious with the themes. I think the reason Verso's is framed as the clear "good ending," is that for 95% of the game, it's really just about grief and not an ethical discussion of utopianism and suffering. It isn't until the very end that we're made aware of the fact that little Verso actually just wants to die. So the game is kind of forced to treat the "face the truth, let it go, and move on" ending as the "right one," even though it has also introduced the genocide consequence at the last second. In my opinion, people would be better off by assuming that the game has two "bad endings." Which is kind of like life I guess. To be clear, I don't have issues with the endings. I guess I'm trying to explain why there seems to be such a divide in how the fanbase understands them. --- while you slept, the world changed <cite>colliding posted [p:985564785] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>The ending is essentially a retelling of Ursula LeGuin's short story "The Ones who Walk Away from Omelas," in which a utopian city relies on the suffering of a single child. It's just that in Clair Obsur, it isn't about "walking away," but instead "mercy killing" the child. If there were a "walk away" option, it would look like Maelle fixing everything, getting a handle on her grief, and leaving the painting so that she avoids becoming the new Paintress. She could then visit occasionally, while Little Boy Verso continues painting and suffering. From what I can tell, the main reason the player base is so divided over these endings is because that Maelle's is clearly treated as the "bad ending" and Verso's is obviously framed as the "good ending," even though that "good ending" involves the genocide of the sentient people and beings of Lumiere. If not for the horror jumpscare of Maelle's face and the warm fuzzy "party waves goodbye at the grave" scene, there would be more of an ambivalence between them. I think this is what the game devs were trying to do, but somewhere along the way they decided to be more obvious with the themes. I think the reason Verso's is framed as the clear "good ending," is that for 95% of the game, it's really just about grief and not an ethical discussion of utopianism and suffering. It isn't until the very end that we're made aware of the fact that little Verso actually just wants to die. So the game is kind of forced to treat the "face the truth, let it go, and move on" ending as the "right one," even though it has also introduced the genocide consequence at the last second.In my opinion, people would be better off by assuming that the game has two "bad endings." Which is kind of like life I guess. To be clear, I don't have issues with the endings. I guess I'm trying to explain why there seems to be such a divide in how the fanbase understands them. </quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
MacArrowny 06/25/25 8:51:30 PM #102:	banananor posted... I can also back it up by the final hour ~~not referencing the well-being of the world's denizens at all, only the painters' personal needs. Not even the denizens themselves chime in with that.~~ I think the scene in ~~Verso's ending where Lune sits down and looks at him is absolutely supposed to make you think that you're murdering her.~~ banananor posted... I'd be happy to be wrong, and I could/should have phrased it differently! I think the tonal implication of the final cutscene(s) is more literally that Maelle 100% should have moved on, left the painting and allowed everyone to die. I do agree that doesn't imply their lives are meaningless, just that they are considered unimportant or ancillary to the writers. I would also say that to me, ~~Maelle's unhappiness after exiting the canvas implies she will commit suicide soon, and everyone's efforts to save her were for nothing.~~ colliding posted... ~~In my opinion, people would be better off by assuming that the game has two "bad endings."~~ This makes sense to me. --- All the stars in the sky are waiting for you. <cite>MacArrowny posted [p:985565553] in Clair Obsc... [t:80996658]...</cite> <quote>banananor posted... </cite><quote>I can also back it up by the final hour not referencing the well-being of the world's denizens at all, only the painters' personal needs. Not even the denizens themselves chime in with that.</quote>I think the scene in Verso's ending where Lune sits down and looks at him is absolutely supposed to make you think that you're murdering her.banananor posted... </cite><quote>I'd be happy to be wrong, and I could/should have phrased it differently! I think the tonal implication of the final cutscene(s) is more literally that Maelle 100% should have moved on, left the painting and allowed everyone to die. I do agree that doesn't imply their lives are meaningless, just that they are considered unimportant or ancillary to the writers.</quote>I would also say that to me, Maelle's unhappiness after exiting the canvas implies she will commit suicide soon, and everyone's efforts to save her were for nothing.colliding posted... </cite><quote>In my opinion, people would be better off by assuming that the game has two "bad endings."</quote>This makes sense to me.</quote> ... Copied to Clipboard!
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