Current Events > Teen found guilty of 1st degree murder for throwing stone at moving car

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lilORANG
04/26/25 1:21:52 PM
#1:


https://www.cbsnews.com/colorado/news/jury-colorado-fatal-rock-throwing-trial-joseph-koen**-guilty-murder/

the * in the link is an i and g bc lol Gamefaqs

Caved the victim's head in. EMT who responded retired shortly after this bc the scene was so traumatizing.

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ai123
04/26/25 1:35:37 PM
#2:


Surprised they managed to prove intent to kill with an incident like that.

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Zikten
04/26/25 1:37:41 PM
#3:


I think this exact situation has happened multiple times over the years. Kids don't understand how dangerous it is.
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lilORANG
04/26/25 1:38:15 PM
#4:


ai123 posted...
Surprised they managed to prove intent to kill with an incident like that.
Yeah. He clearly killed someone with his actions but the shock to me was that 1st degree stuck.

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Hejiru
04/26/25 1:39:51 PM
#5:


Topic title made me think that he just had a rock in his hand and threw it. Reckless and stupid, but still just an accident.

But the article describes three teens intentionally throwing large landscaping rocks at cars. They injured multiple people, and the last kid to throw one killed somebody.

So yeah, no sympathy. This was murder.

WTF even possessed them to do this in the first place??

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ROBBAN
04/26/25 1:40:57 PM
#6:


lilORANG posted...
the * in the link is an i and g bc lol Gamefaqs

they censor the word Koenig?

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Hejiru
04/26/25 1:41:24 PM
#7:


ROBBAN posted...
they censor the word Koenig?

Yes

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evilpresident
04/26/25 1:42:16 PM
#8:


ROBBAN posted...
they censor the word Koenig?
Probably takes offense at the last three letters

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ConfusedTorchic
04/26/25 1:43:01 PM
#9:


not if you turn auto censor off in settings lmao

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Hospy
04/26/25 1:43:40 PM
#10:


Doesnt feel good how the conviction was based off the two accomplices accusing the third guy of doing it when one of them admits that all three were throwing rocks. Though I guess the other two are still being locked up for a good amount of time.
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ROBBAN
04/26/25 1:43:55 PM
#11:


Hejiru posted...
Yes

evilpresident posted...
Probably takes offense at the last three letters

it worked for me without issue
oh, right, i forgot auto censor is something you can turn off and on

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Hejiru
04/26/25 1:48:00 PM
#12:


Hospy posted...
Doesnt feel good how the conviction was based off the two accomplices accusing the third guy of doing it when one of them admits that all three were throwing rocks. Though I guess the other two are still being locked up for a good amount of time.

They were all three trying to kill people, but only one was successful.

Legally that makes a big difference but I dont think it should. Intent matters.


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lilORANG
04/26/25 1:48:15 PM
#13:


evilpresident posted...
Probably takes offense at the last three letters
Correct. Very silly

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ROBBAN
04/26/25 1:49:32 PM
#14:


Hejiru posted...
They were all three trying to kill people, but only one was successful.

Legally that makes a big difference but I dont think it should. Intent matters.

i believe that's called "attempted murder"

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Tyranthraxus
04/26/25 1:50:43 PM
#15:


ai123 posted...
Surprised they managed to prove intent to kill with an incident like that.
You don't have to prove intent to kill, just intent to cause potentially fatal harm.

Like if instead he'd fired guns at moving cars, it would probably be less ambiguous. He likely didn't think it would result in death but murder first degree is strict liability so it doesn't matter what he thought.

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NeonPhoenix
04/26/25 1:57:45 PM
#16:


lilORANG posted...
Caved the victim's head in. EMT who responded retired shortly after this bc the scene was so traumatizing.
They must've been new or from a quiet town, I guess >_> you get used to seeing that shit eventually. Someone has to deal with the mess

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Hejiru
04/26/25 2:01:49 PM
#17:


ROBBAN posted...
i believe that's called "attempted murder"

Right, but I just feel like there shouldnt be a distinction, legally.

We send people to prison because theyre a danger to society. If I was to shoot someone, Im just as big a danger to society whether they survive or not. The victims survival would be based on luck and medical care. Both are irrelevant to the shooters mentality.

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realnifty1
04/26/25 2:02:03 PM
#18:


Tyranthraxus posted...
You don't have to prove intent to kill, just intent to cause potentially fatal harm.

Like if instead he'd fired guns at moving cars, it would probably be less ambiguous. He likely didn't think it would result in death but murder first degree is strict liability so it doesn't matter what he thought.

Slightly varies from state to state, but one of the usual hallmarks of 1st degree is that it requires intent and premeditation. So yes, in most cases you do have to prove that they intended to kill someone for 1st degree.
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Enclave
04/26/25 2:04:32 PM
#19:


How do you prove intent to actually murder in this case? Like, yes, it's murder but murder 1 seems like it would have been REALLY hard to actually prove.

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GiftedACIII
04/26/25 2:06:50 PM
#20:


Must be a hell of a prosecutor to prove killing intent with that.

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thronedfire2
04/26/25 2:07:32 PM
#21:


oh and they weren't just throwing little rocks. from what I read on a reddit post about this, they were throwing 5-10 pound landscaping stones.

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lilORANG
04/26/25 2:09:22 PM
#22:


GiftedACIII posted...
Must be a hell of a prosecutor to prove killing intent with that.
Juries are unpredictable. Entirely possible they saw some pics of victim's brains splattered and decided right there to light the guy up.

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Solar_Crimson
04/26/25 2:11:02 PM
#23:


The defense stressed that Koenig wasn't fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Oh, fuck off with this shit. Glad the jury didn't fall for this.

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K181
04/26/25 2:11:05 PM
#24:


I dont really give a fuck about intent, thats so rage-inducing of a crime that Id vote for a first degree conviction if I was on a jury. And if the death scene was as gruesome as described, dont underestimate extremely graphic photos to sway a jury to a harsh conviction, too.

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DrizztLink
04/26/25 2:11:46 PM
#25:


Hejiru posted...
Topic title made me think that he just had a rock in his hand and threw it. Reckless and stupid, but still just an accident.
Same.

Then I got to "head caved in" and figured there were some details I was missing.

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Enclave
04/26/25 2:13:17 PM
#26:


Okay, so 5-10 lbs stones, that'll do it. Hard to not intend to murder people with that situation.

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Tmaster148
04/26/25 2:14:17 PM
#27:


thronedfire2 posted...
oh and they weren't just throwing little rocks. from what I read on a reddit post about this, they were throwing 5-10 pound landscaping stones.

https://denvergazette.com/news/courts/colorado-first-responder-trauma-suffered-alexa-bartell-homicide/ article_d71d5dc8-d38b-445c-9989-adfe73018d6a.amp.html

Also it wasn't like they threw a rock, saw someone get hurt, and then stopped. They kept doing it until someone died.

https://www.dailycamera.com/2023/04/20/boulder-jefferson-counties-investigating-death-connected-to-series-of-rock-throwing-incidents/

Oh and they took a photo of what they did

https://apnews.com/article/colorado-driver-rock-throwing-death-9ed6bb5ef63212cd58a6d51e94596f18


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Hospy
04/26/25 2:24:05 PM
#28:


Hejiru posted...
They were all three trying to kill people, but only one was successful.

Legally that makes a big difference but I dont think it should. Intent matters.
The issue I have is that the guy #1 says that guy #2 threw the murder rock, but guy #2 and guy #3 said that guy #1 threw the murder rock, guy #3 says they were all throwing rocks and that guy #2 said he didn't throw any rocks.

So the court is more or less going on the word of at least one liar that that specific guy was actually the real rock thrower.
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KiwiTerraRizing
04/26/25 2:30:08 PM
#29:


lilORANG posted...
Yeah. He clearly killed someone with his actions but the shock to me was that 1st degree stuck.

Juries are prone to believe charges are legit.

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lilORANG
04/26/25 2:35:19 PM
#30:


KiwiTerraRizing posted...
Juries are prone to believe charges are legit.
I think they feel a certain burden to convict in homicide cases bc the stakes feel very real when there is a clearly defined deceased person. They feel there needs to be accountability in some way.

On adult rape cases? Absolutely not. Juries rarely believe women and acquit those dudes all the time.

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Sephiroth_C_Ryu
04/26/25 2:38:09 PM
#31:


DrizztLink posted...
Same.

Then I got to "head caved in" and figured there were some details I was missing.

Yeah, you can't throw big pieces of construction debris that far either, so they were probably more dropping it from a highway overpass or something.

You don't want a big piece of artificial stone entering your windshield at 55+ mph.


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party_animal07
04/26/25 2:42:22 PM
#32:


I remember this story. Feels like it was forever ago.

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ItsNotA2Mer
04/26/25 2:44:21 PM
#33:


Gotta say, the topic title is incredibly misleading.

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ConfusedTorchic
04/26/25 3:02:09 PM
#34:


Sephiroth_C_Ryu posted...
Yeah, you can't throw big pieces of construction debris that far either, so they were probably more dropping it from a highway overpass or something.

You don't want a big piece of artificial stone entering your windshield at 55+ mph.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/d/d33c3425.jpg

no overpass. they were just standing on the side of the road.

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Sephiroth_C_Ryu
04/26/25 3:11:44 PM
#35:


Looks like a highway nonetheless.
Hurling chunks of rock or rockish material at high speed cars is still very not nice, to put it mildly.


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#36
Post #36 was unavailable or deleted.
DrizztLink
04/26/25 3:17:02 PM
#37:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It's a case of minimalization.

As written it can be interpreted as something like "kid throws pebble, driver panics and fatally crashes," which absolutely would still be on the kid but still a somewhat different scenario.

Instead we've got a guy with a head caved in, so the title doesn't particularly highlight the severity.

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#38
Post #38 was unavailable or deleted.
DrizztLink
04/26/25 3:21:00 PM
#39:


[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I haven't checked the title but I figure "10lb stone" would have been sufficient, if it fits.

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HANGtheDJ_86
04/26/25 3:28:34 PM
#40:


Enclave posted...
Hard to not intend to murder people with that situation.
You're failing to look at it from outside of your own perspective

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TentacleDemon
04/26/25 3:36:40 PM
#41:


Solar_Crimson posted...
Oh, fuck off with this shit. Glad the jury didn't fall for this.

Exactly. This is like firing a gun into a crowd and saying "I didn't mean to kill anyone."


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SSj4Wingzero
04/26/25 3:38:54 PM
#42:


Hospy posted...
The issue I have is that the guy #1 says that guy #2 threw the murder rock, but guy #2 and guy #3 said that guy #1 threw the murder rock, guy #3 says they were all throwing rocks and that guy #2 said he didn't throw any rocks.

So the court is more or less going on the word of at least one liar that that specific guy was actually the real rock thrower.

Simple solution is to hang em all

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ItsNotA2Mer
04/26/25 4:11:56 PM
#43:


DrizztLink posted...
It's a case of minimalization.

This.

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lilORANG
04/26/25 4:13:20 PM
#44:


SSj4Wingzero posted...
Simple solution is to hang em all
If they did that they wouldn't have been able to secure the testimony of the 2 accomplices to convict the 3rd guy.

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Garioshi
04/26/25 4:20:15 PM
#45:


Yeah, I don't care who you are or how uneducated you are. If you throw rocks at moving cars, you are attemping murder.

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Hospy
04/26/25 4:41:41 PM
#46:


lilORANG posted...
If they did that they wouldn't have been able to secure the testimony of the 2 accomplices to convict the 3rd guy.
We don't even know if the third guy was the guy who threw the actual rock, it's based entirely upon the testimony of two other guys, of whom at least one is lying.

Just seems wrong to charge one guy more than the other two when they were all throwing multiple rocks at cars.
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BewmHedshot
04/26/25 4:48:47 PM
#47:


46 posts about 'how hard it must've been to prove intent' and nobody looked up the actual charges? Apparently this was "first-degree murder with extreme indifference" which doesn't require intent to kill a specific person.
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#48
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Tmaster148
04/26/25 5:18:03 PM
#49:


BewmHedshot posted...
46 posts about 'how hard it must've been to prove intent' and nobody looked up the actual charges? Apparently this was "first-degree murder with extreme indifference" which doesn't require intent to kill a specific person.

People just don't like to read and would rather react to the title.

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Metal_Gear_Raxis
04/26/25 5:28:18 PM
#50:


Hejiru posted...
Topic title made me think that he just had a rock in his hand and threw it. Reckless and stupid, but still just an accident.
Yeah, I was really confused about the Murder I charges sticking as it was described.

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