Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 453: Revolt smarter not harder.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.latintimes.com/11-year-old-texas-girl-bullied-over-familys-immigration-status-takes-her-own-life-575984

This is exactly the kind of world we're creating, where kids are bullied on the basis of their parents perceived immigration status. This is what people voted for. This is what they wanted. And they will never experience an ounce of shame over it. They probably won't even know her name. The "We have to protect the kids" people will be just as silent on this as they are every school shooting that has occurred over the past 26 years.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/doge/usda-accidentally-fired-officials-bird-flu-rehire-rcna192716

They did it again. First the people in charge of the nukes, now this.

Bat178 posted...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/doge/usda-accidentally-fired-officials-bird-flu-rehire-rcna192716

They did it again. First the people in charge of the nukes, now this.

Dumb motherfuckers.

I also want to highlight what may not be apparent to many that don't work on government when it comes to "probationary employees":
Probationary status typically applies to someone who has been with the federal government for less than two years before full civil service protections kick in. But it can also apply to longtime civil service workers who move to a different agency or take a promotion.

That means you could have been with an agency for years/decades and then finally got that promotion to a supervisory level position. And if it happened within the last year, well, so sorry for you, take all your experience and go fuck off.

I don't want to get too detailed here, but I was talking with a former coworker today who took the fork. Always liked working with and talking to this person. I'm honestly not sure how they're still alive though with the leopard mauling their face has received. Voted for Trump despite the fact that this person was not going to be able to do the commute back into the office everyday. Mentioned that they're fucked if they don't actually get the pay out though September. Just a full on Fox News reveal from someone you thought was level headed.

Seanchan posted...

Voted for Trump despite the fact that this person was not going to be able to do the commute back into the office everyday. Mentioned that they're fucked if they don't actually get the pay out though September. Just a full on Fox News reveal from someone you thought was level headed.

This moron deserves every ounce of pain and suffering coming their way.

Bat178 posted...

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/doge/usda-accidentally-fired-officials-bird-flu-rehire-rcna192716

They did it again. First the people in charge of the nukes, now this.

I seriously doubt they're actually going to rehire anyone they "accidentally" fire. It's probably just spin to make the mass firings seem less unreasonable to the ill-informed.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/02/18/americas/brazil-bolsonaro-charged-coup-plot-intl-latam/index.html

I had two realisations about the youngest voters last election, one good and one bad.

The good: theres every chance that 18-21 year-olds will grow out of Internet outrage content fairly fast. I would know since I liked watching that kind of stuff at that age.

The bad: the previous time the Democrats lost the popular vote, they actually improved with voters under 30 relative to the previous election! And even by 2028, any eligible voter born no earlier than late 2005 would have known Biden as either VP or POTUS for most of their lives.

Not gonna address all of that red_sox post for obvious reasons but the meeting had a clear result with a massive defence spending commitment and we have seen the US (not Trump) already shift from trying to entirely bypass Ukraine and Europe to working with them. So there you go. Also, what Trump considers a victory is irrelevant since his entire schtick has always been to declare everything a victory. As seen with the recent Canada and Mexico discussions.

Anyway, this is an incredibly relevant study to this thread:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/19/leftwing-activists-less-likely-work-political-rivals-other-uk-groups-study

They found that progressive activists are significantly less likely to work with others than other political groups. The simple fact is if we dont work together we will never get anything done and the far-right will win. I am saying that as somebody who is very left-wing. The lack of willingness by many to cooperate is the thing that irritates me the most especially when leftist thought is fundamentally based around collectivism in several ways. Obviously there are limits to who we should work with though! Just to be clear this isnt a dig at the left, as I said I am very much on the left it is just that we cant spend all our time infighting then expect much success.

The Rosenbergs got executed for far less than what Trump and Elon are doing imo

Thorn posted...

Right after Trump and Putin held talks about Ukraine (without Ukraine), Trump said that Ukraine "never should have started [the war]" and issued a demand for Zelenskyy to hold elections (Ukrainian law forbids elections during wartime.)

no puppet tho

Love that Rs largely go unchallenged when claiming that the Russia stuff was fake these days, and meanwhile Trump is straight up selling out Ukraine to Putin

LightningStrikes posted...

Just to be clear this isnt a dig at the left, as I said I am very much on the left it is just that we cant spend all our time infighting then expect much success.

You guys need to find a way to split from the leaders of the left, who care more about acting like stubborn bulldogs than effecting political change.

The problem is those leaders are great at organizing and speaking, which is important for the movement to even exist. You're dependent on them for that, but they don't deliver on actual change because they're bad at politics. There's no great solution.

Ideally you would have effective left leaders, like union leaders back in the day, or Arab Spring or something. But for now you're stuck with infighters with warped priorities.

LightningStrikes posted...

Anyway, this is an incredibly relevant study to this thread:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/19/leftwing-activists-less-likely-work-political-rivals-other-uk-groups-study

They found that progressive activists are significantly less likely to work with others than other political groups. The simple fact is if we dont work together we will never get anything done and the far-right will win. I am saying that as somebody who is very left-wing. The lack of willingness by many to cooperate is the thing that irritates me the most especially when leftist thought is fundamentally based around collectivism in several ways. Obviously there are limits to who we should work with though! Just to be clear this isnt a dig at the left, as I said I am very much on the left it is just that we cant spend all our time infighting then expect much success.

This explains my problems with Bernie Sanders. Maybe it doesn't help that I'm from Loudoun County, VA (which seemed to just about side with Harris last election) and don't consider myself much into politics to begin with typically.

I mean living in Ireland that doesnt really apply here because the left/right split effectively doesnt exist at the parliamentary level. However the issue still persists when youre trying to organise or do anything at a lower level. If you have activists who refuse to work with Sinn Fin on say, a local housing issue because their leader met with Biden once that is still a problem. We need to work together at the grassroots level as well as at the top.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

This explains my problems with Bernie Sanders. Maybe it doesn't help that I'm from Loudoun County, VA (which seemed to just about side with Harris last election) and don't consider myself much into politics to begin with typically.

Bernie has consistently worked with establishment Dems even when they would not work with him.

LinkMarioSamus posted...

I'm from Loudoun County, VA

god, I should've known, it all make sense

LightningStrikes posted...

If you have activists who refuse to work with Sinn Fin on say, a local housing issue because their leader met with Biden once that is still a problem. We need to work together at the grassroots level as well as at the top.

By leaders I include the ones leading the grassroots movements. Like if there's a group of 12 local activists working on a housing issue, and 1 of them is de facto leader, that leader is very likely to be a stubborn leftist who wants to project purity more than effect change. The other 11 likely just want to make things better, but neuter themselves due to the purity testing culture enforced by the leader. That local leader then goes on to be a national leader, ensuring the culture is solidified even if some grassroots groups reject that culture.

We have a similar thing in the US with nimbys. The most prominent nimbys are hyper-leftist, since they care far more about ideological purity (no corps, no profits) than about housing issues. To the extent that they will work with the racist nimbys (who care most about not having black or poor people in the vicinity) over anyone else. Fortunately in my city, those local "leaders" don't actually end up in any position of power in city or state government. They just hang out in the neighborhood meetings and people try to ignore them. That's how things should be.

LightningStrikes posted...

Not gonna address all of that red_sox post for obvious reasons but the meeting had a clear result with a massive defence spending commitment and we have seen the US (not Trump) already shift from trying to entirely bypass Ukraine and Europe to working with them. So there you go. Also, what Trump considers a victory is irrelevant since his entire schtick has always been to declare everything a victory. As seen with the recent Canada and Mexico discussions.

Anyway, this is an incredibly relevant study to this thread:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/19/leftwing-activists-less-likely-work-political-rivals-other-uk-groups-study

They found that progressive activists are significantly less likely to work with others than other political groups. The simple fact is if we dont work together we will never get anything done and the far-right will win. I am saying that as somebody who is very left-wing. The lack of willingness by many to cooperate is the thing that irritates me the most especially when leftist thought is fundamentally based around collectivism in several ways. Obviously there are limits to who we should work with though! Just to be clear this isnt a dig at the left, as I said I am very much on the left it is just that we cant spend all our time infighting then expect much success.

What? The US has been working with Ukraine and Europe for the last 3 years. The US has provided far more support for Ukraine than Europe has.

Watching people defend the banks to own the libs

Back to video games for me

These kinds of orders just read as totally chicken shit. The president is already the leader of the executive and all its departments. You don't need an EO in order to assert that. It means that this admin has been facing heavy internal resistance and they don't know how to deal with it because they are bad at government.

The funny thing is, you could have 100% of executive branch employees fully dedicated to enacting Trump's dictatorship, and you would still have tons of disagreement and gridlock causing issues. That's just what bureaucracy is.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/presidential-actions/2025/02/ensuring-accountability-for-all-agencies/

foolm0r0n posted...

By leaders I include the ones leading the grassroots movements. Like if there's a group of 12 local activists working on a housing issue, and 1 of them is de facto leader, that leader is very likely to be a stubborn leftist who wants to project purity more than effect change. The other 11 likely just want to make things better, but neuter themselves due to the purity testing culture enforced by the leader. That local leader then goes on to be a national leader, ensuring the culture is solidified even if some grassroots groups reject that culture.

I've seen a fair bit of this firsthand. When I was in uni I checked out four "different" leftie groups.

Both different cities I stayed in had two groups with almost the exact same split. One set was tankies with one clear leader who was basically a "teacher" and would organise the group with other "cells". Those groups would range a lot older, often with people who stuck with or joined them outside of university, and lots with very rigid thought patterns (lots of misogyny, homophobia, and xenophobia - one had a single woman in a group of about thirty) who would get involved in local politics (marches for Palestine, joining union protests, housing rights protests, etc). They also believed the revolution was coming and the aim was to prepare people to be a vanguard party when capitalism inevitably collapsed, and taught communist theory as gospel. I actually went to meetings in both cities, not realising these were both part of the same larger group.

The other group on both occasions was more student politics, all under about 23, and pretty much uninvolved in politics outside of student unions, and putting up posters, stickers and graffiti. Much more pleasant people, but ultimately kids, who didn't really know how to organise a political movement or get anyone to listen. I don't think I met anyone who had stuck around there past university age, and there weren't really any "leaders" beyond someone who would say when the next meeting was.

Anyway, neither group ever interacted with one another from what I'd seen, due to fundamental ideological disputes. And frankly I think they would have been at each other's throats the whole time.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Think of it, a modestly successful comedian, Volodymyr Zelenskyy, talked the United States of America into spending $350 Billion Dollars, to go into a War that couldnt be won, that never had to start, but a War that he, without the U.S. and TRUMP, will never be able to settle. The United States has spent $200 Billion Dollars more than Europe, and Europes money is guaranteed, while the United States will get nothing back. Why didnt Sleepy Joe Biden demand Equalization, in that this War is far more important to Europe than it is to us We have a big, beautiful Ocean as separation. On top of this, Zelenskyy admits that half of the money we sent him is MISSING. He refuses to have Elections, is very low in Ukrainian Polls, and the only thing he was good at was playing Biden like a fiddle. A Dictator without Elections, Zelenskyy better move fast or he is not going to have a Country left. In the meantime, we are successfully negotiating an end to the War with Russia, something all admit only TRUMP, and the Trump Administration, can do. Biden never tried, Europe has failed to bring Peace, and Zelenskyy probably wants to keep the gravy train going. I love Ukraine, but Zelenskyy has done a terrible job, his Country is shattered, and MILLIONS have unnecessarily died And so it continues..

trump just straight calling Zelenskyy a dictator now

also rich coming from a moderately successful reality tv guy

One of the clearest examples in recent history of a war with a unambiguous good guy and bad guy and hes on the side of the murderers

The side of the mustache twirling invaders even.

But because the kremlin pretends to slobber his knob they have the full support of the United States now

Why would he understand foreign affairs? But as far as I can tell for Americans the only countries that exist are those that directly threaten national security, and people are incapable of thinking long term these days.

red_sox_777 posted...

What? The US has been working with Ukraine and Europe for the last 3 years. The US has provided far more support for Ukraine than Europe has.

That was Pre-Trump. He is obviously talking about now where the Trump administration is far more concerned with working with Putin than Ukraine and just goes around insulting Europe and dismissing them.

His post said:

we have seen the US (not Trump) already shift from trying to entirely bypass Ukraine and Europe to working with them

So that means the Biden administration right?

Came here to mention that Trump is calling Zelensky a dictator, but I see ya'll are on top of it. What an absolute joke.

Can we do some kind of wife-swap thing where Ukraine gets Trump and we get Zelensky as our president?

I started a post about the importance of holding elections even during wartime and how it would be seen as highly undemocratic if suspending elections during wartime happened in first world countries, but I checked and apparently the UK suspended elections during both WWI and WWII. The Parliament elected in 1935 ended up serving until 1945, by passing annual bills extending its own term during the war.

I would have thought the experience of the 20-year Long Parliament in the 1600s that also avoided the need to stand for reelection by passing laws to extend its own term would have caused the UK to find some way to avoid the potential for a government to stay in office forever without elections, but apparently it never happened. Yes, there were laws passed limiting the term of a Parliament, but all of those laws could be suspended or repealed by a normal law passed by a later Parliament. I suppose maybe it's just an unsolvable problem without a written constitution. I suppose the UK survived and neither the WWI Parliament nor the WWII Parliament attempted to further suspend elections after the wars were over.

After reading about this, I do think the USA should be very proud of holding the 1864 and 1944 general elections though.

As for Ukraine, Zelensky obviously isn't a dictator, but I do think they should hold an election since the last one was more than 5 years ago and the regular term of office expired last year. If it's not possible to hold a vote in the parts of Eastern Ukraine that have been occupied by Russia, hold the election in the areas that Ukraine still controls. Western Ukraine always voted for parties that wanted to be closer to Europe and farther from Russia, so I don't think this is a situation where the inability of people in Eastern Ukraine to vote would affect the outcome of the election.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

Came here to mention that Trump is calling Zelensky a dictator, but I see ya'll are on top of it. What an absolute joke.

Can we do some kind of wife-swap thing where Ukraine gets Trump and we get Zelensky as our president?

Hasn't Ukraine suffered enough?

LordoftheMorons posted...

One of the clearest examples in recent history of a war with a unambiguous good guy and bad guy and hes on the side of the murderers

What's an example of a recent war without an unambiguous good guy and bad guy?

Kenri posted...

What's an example of a recent war without an unambiguous good guy and bad guy?

Israel

https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1891922058415603980

what in the fuck is this timeline

FFDragon posted...

https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1891922058415603980

what in the fuck is this timeline

People voted for this twice.

Pretty much all mideast wars

red_sox_777 posted...

After reading about this, I do think the USA should be very proud of holding the 1864 and 1944 general elections though.

We did need a whole ass amendment to avoid another FDR situation though. The people clearly agreed that we should not have a new president during wartime. I would be more proud of the opposition he received in his 3rd and 4th elections.

red_sox_777 posted...

If it's not possible to hold a vote in the parts of Eastern Ukraine that have been occupied by Russia, hold the election in the areas that Ukraine still controls. Western Ukraine always voted for parties that wanted to be closer to Europe and farther from Russia, so I don't think this is a situation where the inability of people in Eastern Ukraine to vote would affect the outcome of the election.

This is very clearly unconstitutional though. If Russia agreed to pause the war and allow ALL Ukrainians to be free for 6ish months long enough to have an election, then it could be fair to force the election. And part of the vote would have to be "we choose to end the current peace and restart the war with Russia after this election". If the people vote for that, then there's no denying that it's Ukraine's war. Seems like the way to go for the Trump admin.

foolm0r0n posted...

And part of the vote would have to be "we choose to end the current peace and restart the war with Russia after this election".

So... WHY would that have to be part of the vote?

Obviously this is a hypothetical scenario because Russia's position is that "East Ukraine" is actually just "West Russia", but in the impossible scenario where Russia allowed all Ukrainians to vote in a Ukrainian Election, why would "continue the war with Russia" be on the ballot? They were invaded, they didn't choose to be at war to begin with.

Edit: Trump only thinks this is "Ukraine's War" because he's a fucking idiot (and/or because he's a Russian Puppet repeating their propaganda).

I don't think you would have a referendum about the war on the ballot. You would just have a regular election for all the offices that would normally be up for election.

NFUN posted...

Israel

Not really, Netanyahu has killed innocents.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

So... WHY would that have to be part of the vote?

Just to have a referendum. Not unusual in elections.

Trump is misremembering the events of 2022, or misstating them at any rate. Recall that before invading, Russia did not issue an ultimatum or any other offer to Ukraine to allow it to avoid war by making concessions to Russia. Before the war started, Russia was only interested in negotiating with the United States, and repeatedly asked for direct talks. Biden refused to do that (which was the right call I think). So the suggestion that Ukraine could have avoided the war is not accurate.

red_sox_777 posted...

I don't think you would have a referendum about the war on the ballot. You would just have a regular election for all the offices that would normally be up for election.

Still its understandable why Ukraine isnt holding elections. Plus keep in mind Trump was opposed to there being an election in 2020 at all, so the suggestion seems hypocritical. The most charitable explanation is that hes a bumbling fool who just so HAPPENS to keep talking like a dictator, and given his political mentor was Nixon I dont find it hard to believe. Still doesnt bode well however!

And speaking of Nixon, why do you guys despise Reagan so much when there are so many worse Republican presidents like Hayes, Garfield, Arthur, Harrison, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Ford, and W. to name other examples?

MegaWentEvil posted...

Not really, Netanyahu has killed innocents.

and so has Hamas

bastards on one side, genocidal bastards on the other, and a lot of civilians getting absolutely fucked over

LinkMarioSamus posted...

Still its understandable why Ukraine isnt holding elections. Plus keep in mind Trump was opposed to there being an election in 2020 at all, so the suggestion seems hypocritical. The most charitable explanation is that hes a bumbling fool who just so HAPPENS to keep talking like a dictator, and given his political mentor was Nixon I dont find it hard to believe. Still doesnt bode well however!

And speaking of Nixon, why do you guys despise Reagan so much when there are so many worse Republican presidents like Hayes, Garfield, Arthur, Harrison, Harding, Coolidge, Hoover, Ford, and W. to name other examples?

When did Trump oppose there being an election in 2020? I don't recall him ever saying that.

I think all of those Republican presidents except for W., Ford, and probably Hoover were fine presidents.

WH Twitter posting:

"CONGESTION PRICING IS DEAD. Manhattan, and all of New York, is SAVED. LONG LIVE THE KING!" - President Donald J Trump

with an image of Trump with a crown. but i'm sure it's "just joking" and not yet another sign of the trajectory we're on

i'd link it but, y'know, twitter

red_sox_777 posted...

His post said:

So that means the Biden administration right?

No I was talking about Rubio and cohorts, even Vance was telling European leaders they werent going to screw over Ukraine. Trump is acting on his own which is why I specified.

Also they please. :)

Also a more minor point, but IIRC the aid to Ukraine was all under lend-lease and thus the US (in theory) would be paid back for it making yet another part of that insane screed a lie.