Current Events > Fuck Chrono cross *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bought the game when it was on sale. When through it mostly without a guide. Though I did read about getting Glenn cause I was curious about saving the hydras in the forest. I read nothing on razzly, just read a bunch of "Glenn best character". Nothing about being able to safe the hydra. Well I got to the point where I can use Glenn again and....karsh is just better in my opinion....I started reading on who was better karsh or Glenn...which then came across a bunch of fuckin "how to save razzly" posts and the story that I should have went through....I actually really dislike the game and have been forcing my way through it because of Chrono trigger but seeing how I screwed up on taking the path I should have just stuck with instead of switching is that straw that broke the camels back. Fuck this piece of shit game.

Hey... It got New Game+ for you to collect all characters.

Glenn is better than Karsh and Razzly combined, you didn't screw up

he gets a power boost later in the game after you do a personal side quest for him

Foppe posted...

Hey... It got New Game+ for you to collect all characters.

NG+ and multiple endings, so definitely worth replaying. It's funny how a certain fight is a scripted loss, though, so even when you're super powerful, you just get screwed. Woulda been really awesome if they would have been able to make an alternate scenario where the game plays out differently after winning that battle.

Boy that intro really hyped me up for years before I finally played the game and was like... this is it? Didn't like it.

I never could understand why this got a 10 from Gamespot back in the day, because I found the game's faults overwhelming. Imagine centering a game around collecting 40some crappy playable party members, but only having 3 people per team, and technically only being able to switch 1 character out of the 3.

Music and graphics are good if nothing else.

I LOVE Chrono Cross so much. I thought it was an amazing natural progression of a story that had to do with time travel and alternate potential realities and whatnot.

Yes it runs into the issue that not every character is worthwhile or as interesting as the others. Yeah the battle system is kinda weird and maybe not what some people want. That narrative arc and how it fits into the Chrono lore? Yes. Fuck. Yes.

Downloaded it last year but couldnt get into it.

Is rather just play Trigger.

Foppe posted...

Hey... It got New Game+ for you to collect all characters.

Yes, but I really don't like the story and am forcing myself because of Chrono trigger hehehe but I am meticulous when it comes to first playthroughs and I should have gone with my first choice instead of changing it up.

DoesntMatter posted...

Glenn is better than Karsh and Razzly combined, you didn't screw up

he gets a power boost later in the game after you do a personal side quest for him

Oh gotchas, so he will get stronger later on, thanks.

GeminiDeus posted...

NG+ and multiple endings, so definitely worth replaying. It's funny how a certain fight is a scripted loss, though, so even when you're super powerful, you just get screwed. Woulda been really awesome if they would have been able to make an alternate scenario where the game plays out differently after winning that battle.

I just got to the point of fighting all of the dragons and just returned to my normal serge body. Is this right you speak of already past?

saspa posted...

Boy that intro really hyped me up for years before I finally played the game and was like... this is it? Didn't like it.

I never could understand why this got a 10 from Gamespot back in the day, because I found the game's faults overwhelming. Imagine centering a game around collecting 40some crappy playable party members, but only having 3 people per team, and technically only being able to switch 1 character out of the 3.

Music and graphics are good if nothing else.

Yeah, I too dislike having so many characters and then using only three of them. But not many dogs have huge parties so it's something I was expecting. Wish it was more like Suikoden though where I can have at least 6.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

I LOVE Chrono Cross so much. I thought it was an amazing natural progression of a story that had to do with time travel and alternate potential realities and whatnot.

Yes it runs into the issue that not every character is worthwhile or as interesting as the others. Yeah the battle system is kinda weird and maybe not what some people want. That narrative arc and how it fits into the Chrono lore? Yes. Fuck. Yes.

I'm like the complete opposite, I like the battle system but I dislike the story hehehe

G1_Nightbeat posted...

Downloaded it last year but couldnt get into it.

Is rather just play Trigger.

Yeah, I can't really get into it either kind of forcing myself honesty but I think I'm done with the game though after finding out that I could have saved the hydras and I really don't want to go back that far since I already deleted that save quite a while ago and I have no desire to do a new game plus. Maybe I'll come back to this game and start over way later down the road.

Foppe posted...

Hey... It got New Game+ for you to collect all characters.

And Continue+.
Too bad it was so easily exploited, no other games used it.

Glenn one of the few RPG party members in existence that gets his ultimate weapon twice

It's been decades, but if you're going for 100% I think it's optimal to get Razzly on your final run because of story limitations on her ultimate weapon/tech.

well it's more glenn is the best physical character that isn't serge and razzly is arguably the best mage

Wow I can't believe looking a bunch of stuff up (on a first playthrough?) ruined your experience!!

I stand by the statement that if it wasn't billed as a sequel to one of the best JRPGs of all time it could have done well. Instead, it shits all over the lore of the original as it gleefully kills your favorite heroes and has a storyline that is convoluted at best.

Fuck Chrono Cross.

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

Wow I can't believe looking a bunch of stuff up (on a first playthrough?) ruined your experience!!

I think TCs problem is expecting to do everything "right" on the first run, ignoring that the game was meant to be replayed for the full experience due the multiple paths.

The story peaks at the Dead Sea imo, which is maybe three-fifths of the way through the game. Worth it to get to that point at least, but probably won't mean much if you're forcing yourself to keep at the game leading up to it.

And Glenn is one of the best characters in the game, to the point where the devs were compelled to gate his OP ass behind one of the most counter-intuitive moral choices in JRPGs up to that point. In addition to his other key benefit which has already been mentioned, he's the only character in the game who has a Dual Tech with Serge.

I almost always help Kid just to save Razzly and the Hydras despite not liking Kid and liking Glenn more
seeing the baby hydra when you return just makes me smile

masterpug53 posted...

The story peaks at the Dead Sea imo, which is maybe three-fifths of the way through the game. Worth it to get to that point at least, but probably won't mean much if you're forcing yourself to keep at the game leading up to it.

And Glenn is one of the best characters in the game, to the point where the devs were compelled to gate his OP ass behind one of the most counter-intuitive moral choices in JRPGs up to that point. In addition to his other key benefit which has already been mentioned, he's the only character in the game who has a Dual Tech with Serge.

Yeah I agree thats my fav part of the game too although I enjoy the journey after it but before||the future ruins where FATE is|| forgot the name

I had a old Tips and Tricks that had the whole recruitment list. Yes Gamefaqs was a thing then but I kept it for 20 years on top of a closet. I wish I knew where it was

Cross is more memorable to me than Trigger

Trumpo posted...

Cross is more memorable to me than Trigger

I played cross before trigger so I agree but I absolutely adore both games
great in different ways

Yeah, Glenn starts off as a good character but not top tier, after a certain quest he becomes top tier.

You get everything you have to play 3 times overall, and razzly is very good, so picking her over Glenn is whatever.

NG+ has a fast-forward feature. I think the only other game I can recall with that was The Last Remnant (PC).

Trumpo posted...

Cross is more memorable to me than Trigger

Same. I don't have nostalgia for Trigger since I've played that after Cross. Still holds up since I just played both Trigger and Cross a few months ago.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

That narrative arc and how it fits into the Chrono lore? Yes. Fuck. Yes.

See that's where I went no, fuck no.

Playing Cross before Trigger is an interesting experience. Anything stand out when you played Trigger? For me, doing them in order, the drawings in the burning orphanage are particularly impactful.

Enclave posted...

Yeah, Glenn starts off as a good character but not top tier, after a certain quest he becomes top tier.

He's absolutely worse than razzly for most of the game. The bigger choice there is getting korcha versus macha. Because you get kid either way. So the real thing is razzly and korcha versus macha and Glenn.

Mel is whatever because she's absolutely garbage. And kid is definitely the better thief between the two (even if you get an even better one later).

Macha is better than korcha by far and Glenn is only better later on.

Fun fact, you can go the entire game without ever actually recruiting Kid into your party despite her being central to the plot and on the cover art!

pazzy posted...

He's absolutely worse than razzly for most of the game. The bigger choice there is getting korcha versus macha. Because you get kid either way. So the real thing is razzly and korcha versus macha and Glenn.

Mel is whatever because she's absolutely garbage. And kid is definitely the better thief between the two (even if you get an even better one later).

Macha is better than korcha by far and Glenn is only better later on.

Nothing here invalidates anything I said.

Also, I usually use Fargo as my thief.

Enclave posted...

Nothing here invalidates anything I said.

Also, I usually use Fargo as my thief.

I never was saying it did. Don't know why you'd think me adding to it was.

MC_BatCommander posted...

Fun fact, you can go the entire game without ever actually recruiting Kid into your party despite her being central to the plot and on the cover art!

I always reject her to get leena and also because I dont like her anyway

Honestly, the game is not hard at all except for like two or three fights in my opinion. Whenever I replay it I just go for the characters I like the most aesthetically, or I may just switch it up and play with a random team.

Chrono Cross is one of my favorite games of all time and I still replay it every now and then >_>; It gets criticized way too much :P

Weird game I have mixed memories of from when I was young but I have these memories

That's fucking intro Im pretty sure led me to do orchestra from the 4th grade to senior year of HS

Sick ass fmvs

Cat man

Tora_Sami posted...
I just got to the point of fighting all of the dragons and just returned to my normal serge body. Is this right you speak of already past?

Yeah, the fight I'm referring to is one you've already done, when Lynx switches bodies with Serge. In NG+, you can easily win that battle, but you'll still lose. Kid will hobble over to you and stab you and you go down.

So... why do people hate the narrative of Chrono Cross?

Is it due to the fact that it's not a sequel in the sense that it continues the story of Crono and company? I kinda like the fact that they did something different since, as a time travel/alternate reality type narrative, making ANY sort of sequel that deals directly with Crono and company creates a canon ending for a game that was beloved due to the fact that it had multiple different ending points.

Instead, the narrative became all about the consequences of meddling with time and space to the point that the Reptites and the planet itself kinda tries to correct for the meddling of time. It gets all screwy, things get almost surreal and messed up as multiple forces try to enforce their own control of time itself, all because of the stuff that Crono ended up doing.

I thought it was amazing how they made it tie into basically all the stuff that Crono DID, rather than the team themselves.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

So... why do people hate the narrative of Chrono Cross?

Is it due to the fact that it's not a sequel in the sense that it continues the story of Crono and company? I kinda like the fact that they did something different since, as a time travel/alternate reality type narrative, making ANY sort of sequel that deals directly with Crono and company creates a canon ending for a game that was beloved due to the fact that it had multiple different ending points.

Instead, the narrative became all about the consequences of meddling with time and space to the point that the Reptites and the planet itself kinda tries to correct for the meddling of time. It gets all screwy, things get almost surreal and messed up as multiple forces try to enforce their own control of time itself, all because of the stuff that Crono ended up doing.

I thought it was amazing how they made it tie into basically all the stuff that Crono DID, rather than the team themselves.

No. It's because it meanders way too much and spends way too much time fucking about. It's kind of a thing that Kato does when he's a writing lead or has significant control of a plot.

There is absolutely a canon ending to Chrono trigger thanks to cross, and some of the things it carries over are very questionable. And some of the issue is that it also tries to serve as a bit of a sequel / alternative telling to radical dreamers as well.

Cross is a game filled with good ideas that aren't executed as well as they could be, from the gameplay to the narrative

Chrono Cross is one of my favorite RPGs of all time. I never played Trigger nor do I care to.

Despised posted...

Weird game I have mixed memories of from when I was young but I have these memories

That's fucking intro Im pretty sure led me to do orchestra from the 4th grade to senior year of HS

Sick ass fmvs

Cat man

I love playing as cat man

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

So... why do people hate the narrative of Chrono Cross?

Is it due to the fact that it's not a sequel in the sense that it continues the story of Crono and company? I kinda like the fact that they did something different since, as a time travel/alternate reality type narrative, making ANY sort of sequel that deals directly with Crono and company creates a canon ending for a game that was beloved due to the fact that it had multiple different ending points.

Instead, the narrative became all about the consequences of meddling with time and space to the point that the Reptites and the planet itself kinda tries to correct for the meddling of time. It gets all screwy, things get almost surreal and messed up as multiple forces try to enforce their own control of time itself, all because of the stuff that Crono ended up doing.

I thought it was amazing how they made it tie into basically all the stuff that Crono DID, rather than the team themselves.

When I said that the game reaches it's peak at the Dead Sea, it's because most of what comes after unravels into incoherence, reaching its nadir with the unceremonious plot dump just before the final boss. And my love of the segment in question should indicate that I was plenty on-board with Cross doing something 'different' in spite of Trigger being a top-ten all-time game for me.

It has its good moments, but the plot twist relating to what happened to the Chrono Trigger timeline is annoying.

Beyond that, there is just so much stuff that was clearly planned, but ended up not being able to be used due to whatever bloat and time constraints happened during development. Like, say, the Epoch 2 which is just hanging out in a basement and does absolutely nothing in the story. Or the fact that Magus/Janus is a party member (as Guise), but because of the cast bloat, they just threw a mask on him and made him not important to the story (in fact, he is an optional character).

This developmental messiness was something of a common theme among Square's earlier PSX titles, to be fair. FF7 had its fair share of this (late addition of characters and certain character events, unused attributes of the airship, a likely location change for the final dungeon, etc), and then of course there was the especially infamous Xenogears.

PSX Square just had a lot of trouble early on when it came to figuring out how to make an epic game without running out of time or overdoing it.

Jerry_Hellyeah posted...

Wow I can't believe looking a bunch of stuff up (on a first playthrough?) ruined your experience!!

Hahaha I looked up it it was possible to save the hydras, I didn't see shit on it so I went with Glenn. Then when I got Glenn back he seemed weak compared to karsh so I looked up if Glenn or karsh was better. Then that search is what showed me it was possible to save the hydras way into my run. But you are correct, I shouldn't have looked up shit and just kept playing.

One of the first things I saw when I played it on a PS2 was "It has new game plus, and this is the list of things that NG+ involves."

I forget if they were better about spoilers back then, but the topics definitely had to specify WHICH spoilers they were talking about. This has changed in weird ways with spoiler tags and people not caring about people putting "spoilers" in their topic titles.

I will say that people here seem to be... mostly respectful to try and avoid spoilers, which is weirdly ironic since this topic does have a spoilers tag. Guess people actually are reading the OP for once and are mostly trying to not spoil anything unnecessary.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

. It gets all screwy, things get almost surreal and messed up as multiple forces try to enforce their own control of time itself, all because of the stuff that Crono ended up doing.

That would be a big reason i don't like it. The plot hinging on "everything you did in the last game was a mistake, you fucked up you asshole" left a bad taste in my mouth.

Mibahlzitch posted...

That would be a big reason i don't like it. The plot hinging on "everything you did in the last game was a mistake, you fucked up you asshole" left a bad taste in my mouth.

Im mostly fine with that. What did get me is that were to believe the comedy relief character Dalton somehow instigated a war, defeated Crono and Marle, and overthrew Guardia. Though actually now I cant remember if Cross introduced that story reveal or if it was something else.

To me Chrono Cross always came across as a game made by a bunch of producers who REALLY didn't like Chrono Trigger.

You know all those characters you liked? All dead. You know that adventure you went on? Pointless. The story ties into Chrono Trigger itself are very loose and non-sanctimonious. As if they were trying every way they could to distance themselves from the game.

And the few cameos you get were kind of to shit on what came before.

To this day I still think Chrono Cross as a standalone experience is OK. But I actually think it would have been a stronger overall experience if it just ditched the "Chrono" part entirely and had released as a completely new IP unrelated to Chrono Trigger at all.

As a game it's good. As a sequel to Chrono Trigger it is absolutely terrible. So in this situation it should have just been its own thing - which it mostly is anyway.

It's like a band calling themselves "The Beatles Reborn" and only doing one OG song and having Yoko Onos's face on all their merchandise.

HudGard posted...

Im mostly fine with that. What did get me is that were to believe the comedy relief character Dalton somehow instigated a war, defeated Crono and Marle, and overthrew Guardia. Though actually now I cant remember if Cross introduced that story reveal or if it was something else.

I too can't remember if Cross referenced Dalton specifically. The Final Fantasy Chronicles release on the PSX a year later had secret ending cutscenes depicting Lucca finding baby Kid with Schala's pendant in the woods, and a very brief flash-forward of Guardia falling in the near future and the Masamune being stolen. I think it took until the Chrono Trigger DS port for the Dalton retcon to take full effect via added postgame content.

Mibahlzitch posted...

That would be a big reason i don't like it. The plot hinging on "everything you did in the last game was a mistake, you fucked up you asshole" left a bad taste in my mouth.

I disagree with that break down. It isn't that what you did in Trigger was a mistake, it is that by circumventing time and space and introducing that technology to multiple different times with people who all have their own reasons to use it, there are consequences. Ultimately Crono and company did stop the destruction of the world, which was great.

Really if you break it down, it was the Kingdom of Zeal who was ultimately responsible. They fucked around in the past and it eventually led to Schala being bound to Lavos, and Belthasaur had to do SOMETHING to try and stop it.

GeminiDeus posted...

NG+ and multiple endings, so definitely worth replaying. It's funny how a certain fight is a scripted loss, though, so even when you're super powerful, you just get screwed. Woulda been really awesome if they would have been able to make an alternate scenario where the game plays out differently after winning that battle.

It's super extra stupid because in Chrono Trigger you can in fact win every single "scripted loss" and get a different ending as a result

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

I disagree with that break down. It isn't that what you did in Trigger was a mistake, it is that by circumventing time and space and introducing that technology to multiple different times with people who all have their own reasons to use it, there are consequences. Ultimately Crono and company did stop the destruction of the world, which was great.

Really if you break it down, it was the Kingdom of Zeal who was ultimately responsible. They fucked around in the past and it eventually led to Schala being bound to Lavos, and Belthasaur had to do SOMETHING to try and stop it.

Which would be fine if the writer didn't feel compelled to target damn near every character from Chrono trigger and give them a bad ending. It certainly does feel that way, because had they done nothing, they would have not only lived a life free from turmoil, but not even been around for the destruction. If you think of the planet as a character like they sort of apply in Cross, the situation doesn't end up better for anyone, and because everyone is dead, the characters ultimately don't even get to have an actual arc about the consequence-- instead it just wants to introduce new characters and have new things talked about. It's incredibly messy.

Which is pretty lame tbh. That like everything tied to zeal. The story was much better before that point.