Current Events > Fuck Chrono cross *spoilers*

(+) Yeah! (+)

Maybe not an excuse but the story outlines for the next game after Cross revolved around saving the original cast. So basically a callback to what Trigger did when Crono died but the saving happens a game entry later. Since that never happened were stuck with what we got and left hanging.

Chrono cross suffers from three main things:
-it punches maybe 30% too high above weight (if you excise everything after FATE, the attempts to tie it back to Trigger, and some 20% of the interchangable playable roster that all use gloves because we have a back of the box 60 playable character quota to meet, you would still have a sprawling top end JRPG)
-the story is not good (oh, don't get me wrong. The A-plot with dimension hopping and stopping lynx? Good. erm actually it's because lavos had extra magic powers despite getting Very Stabbed at the end of Trigger and also Porre conquered the world with it's standing army of ~3 houses and a joke villain? Bad
-the budget clearly ran out for the final act it is never, ever a good thing to have a character essentially go "alright I am going to stand in for the director and I am going to read the script at you now because we ran out of time to do this better" like when explaining why we have to have a still badly explained rhythm game with the time devourer when the whole game beforehand was dealing with an evil computer who was already a perfectly fine twist villain by itself

It's still a great game but with a handful of very glaring flaws

HudGard posted...

Maybe not an excuse but the story outlines for the next game after Cross revolved around saving the original cast. So basically a callback to what Trigger did when Crono died but the saving happens a game entry later. Since that never happened were stuck with what we got and left hanging.

Interesting. I think it's fair to say that Cross would've been better received by the diehard fans if it was the middle entry of a trilogy.

Even though I like Cross overall and adore parts of it, I didn't like the series ending on such a melancholy and unsatisfying note when the original game was so cute and hopeful, and had such an excellent (canon) ending.

I tried it over 20 years ago and I don't think I got off the first disc. I think I got to the point where you recruit the decoy antagonist and then just got tired of the battle system. Also, recruiting all those characters but they actually had to be in your party to exp. I understand that's always been a thing in RPGs, but if they're going to give us all those characters to choose from then they could at least let them get some xp. Even just a smaller portion would do

Honestly, given what they ended up with, they should have made a not-suikoden.

pazzy posted...

Which would be fine if the writer didn't feel compelled to target damn near every character from Chrono trigger and give them a bad ending. It certainly does feel that way, because had they done nothing, they would have not only lived a life free from turmoil, but not even been around for the destruction. If you think of the planet as a character like they sort of apply in Cross, the situation doesn't end up better for anyone, and because everyone is dead, the characters ultimately don't even get to have an actual arc about the consequence-- instead it just wants to introduce new characters and have new things talked about. It's incredibly messy.

Which is pretty lame tbh. That like everything tied to zeal. The story was much better before that point.

But I've always kinda viewed that more as the machinations of The Planet, Lavos, FATE, etc. They viewed Crono and company as a threat and they found a way to quash the threat.

The whole theme of Cross is alternate realities. I know it's not canon, but it's pretty simple to headcanon that CC is just an alternate future timeline from when Dalton starts messing with time.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

But I've always kinda viewed that more as the machinations of The Planet, Lavos, FATE, etc. They viewed Crono and company as a threat and they found a way to quash the threat.

But it clearly isn't.
the planet does not view Crono as a threat, and passively encouraged them to do this to save itself. Lavos also doesn't care, it is simply a parasite that will destroy the planet. Calling these things etc. When the only thing that kinda sorta actively is against the original cast is FATE is all sorts of messed up.

This is what I mean when the plot is kinda poorly told and all over the place, because it's easy to think of cool ideas for the game even when they don't quite happen like it could have been.

Top tier OST. As someone who grew up loving Trigger, there is a part of me that is compelled by certain aspects of returning to that "world", but overall, I did not like this game. It was kinda boring.

I remember trying to play the OG on PS. I think I probably started it 4-5 times and always stopped near the beginning because it was so dull. I somehow pushed through it years later and finished it. Then a few years back when the Remaster came out I replayed it, intending to do all the endings. I don't think I could get past the 2nd or 3rd NG+ ending because the game was just so fucking boring.

That battle system is so dull and unfun

HudGard posted...

Maybe not an excuse but the story outlines for the next game after Cross revolved around saving the original cast. So basically a callback to what Trigger did when Crono died but the saving happens a game entry later. Since that never happened were stuck with what we got and left hanging.

Is there a source for this? First time I've heard of it

AlCalavicci posted...

Is there a source for this? First time I've heard of it

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/ind

ex.php?topic=13457.msg232999#msg232999

(link string is too big to combine)

When I finished Chrono Trigger I felt very relieved that I have completed it [laughs]. Before too long, I entered the Radical Dreamers project, with the idea of making an adventure game including thieves and the exploration of a mansion. I started writing without thinking about it too much and, when I was on the last stage, the doubt on how to conclude the story came up. It was then, for the first time, that I realized that that was the story of Schala and Magus [laughs].
Regarding Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, the truth is that I did imagine a final episode of the Chrono trilogy, later in time than Chrono Trigger, in which Kid and the others had to save Crono, Marle and Lucca. Something like an all-starts [laughs].

HudGard posted...

https://www.chronocompendium.com/Forums/ind

ex.php?topic=13457.msg232999#msg232999

(link string is too big to combine)

When I finished Chrono Trigger I felt very relieved that I have completed it [laughs]. Before too long, I entered the Radical Dreamers project, with the idea of making an adventure game including thieves and the exploration of a mansion. I started writing without thinking about it too much and, when I was on the last stage, the doubt on how to conclude the story came up. It was then, for the first time, that I realized that that was the story of Schala and Magus [laughs].
Regarding Chrono Trigger and Chrono Cross, the truth is that I did imagine a final episode of the Chrono trilogy, later in time than Chrono Trigger, in which Kid and the others had to save Crono, Marle and Lucca. Something like an all-starts [laughs].

Ah, I do vaguely remember reading this. Thanks.

pazzy posted...

But it clearly isn't.
the planet does not view Crono as a threat, and passively encouraged them to do this to save itself. Lavos also doesn't care, it is simply a parasite that will destroy the planet. Calling these things etc. When the only thing that kinda sorta actively is against the original cast is FATE is all sorts of messed up.

This is what I mean when the plot is kinda poorly told and all over the place, because it's easy to think of cool ideas for the game even when they don't quite happen like it could have been.

I might be misremembering, but isn't The Planet, Lavos, and FATE/Belthasar all actively kinda playing an active role in trying to control time and space? The Planet brings the Dragons (the natural full evolution of the Reptites) into the world to combat FATE and Lavos, Lavos/Time Devourer (I think it does have sentience of some kind since it combined with Schala) is looking for the easiest route to consume time and space in general, and FATE/Belthasar is creating a pathway ultimately towards saving Schala by splitting her apart from Lavos with the Chrono Cross, and killing Lavos?

Time Devourer most definitely views Crono as a threat since you know, Crono successfully stopped it in MANY different ages (assuming you believe Time Devourer has some form of sentience since it is a combo of Schala and Lavos). The Dragons/The Planet views all plans towards messing with time and space as a threat so they are looking to destroy everything associated with it. FATE as a super computer programmed to come up with a solution to save time and space from Time Devourer comes up with... you know a super complicated plan involving cloning Schala and manipulating events to split her apart from Lavos.

It is not exactly easy to follow and it does "kill off" the old cast as these threats are all the equal to them and view their ability to time travel and stop them as the first potential fail point.

I get that it is not a true sequel and it does not follow the original cast. I appreciate and understand people hating that. I really respect the creators for wanting to go an entirely different direction and focus a lot on the crazy ways you can expand the whole time travel, alternate reality, simulatenous realities concept.

Jeff_AKA_Snoopy posted...

I might be misremembering, but isn't The Planet, Lavos, and FATE/Belthasar all actively kinda playing an active role in trying to control time and space? The Planet brings the Dragons (the natural full evolution of the Reptites) into the world to combat FATE and Lavos, Lavos/Time Devourer (I think it does have sentience of some kind since it combined with Schala) is looking for the easiest route to consume time and space in general, and FATE/Belthasar is creating a pathway ultimately towards saving Schala by splitting her apart from Lavos with the Chrono Cross, and killing Lavos?

Time Devourer most definitely views Crono as a threat since you know, Crono successfully stopped it in MANY different ages (assuming you believe Time Devourer has some form of sentience since it is a combo of Schala and Lavos). The Dragons/The Planet views all plans towards messing with time and space as a threat so they are looking to destroy everything associated with it. FATE as a super computer programmed to come up with a solution to save time and space from Time Devourer comes up with... you know a super complicated plan involving cloning Schala and manipulating events to split her apart from Lavos.

It is not exactly easy to follow and it does "kill off" the old cast as these threats are all the equal to them and view their ability to time travel and stop them as the first potential fail point.

I get that it is not a true sequel and it does not follow the original cast. I appreciate and understand people hating that. I really respect the creators for wanting to go an entirely different direction and focus a lot on the crazy ways you can expand the whole time travel, alternate reality, simulatenous realities concept.

Lavos is just an alien. It's not trying to control anything. The planet is actively trying to keep itself alive, and FATE is trying to keep itself alive and have control.

Time devourer doesn't particularly view anyone as a threat so much as it just does its thing. Sort of like lavos.