Board 8 > Time Travelers Mafia Topic 2: You Can (Not) Change the Past

(+) Yeah! (+)

Honestly the only thing that's been inconsistent is how you wildly and brazenly fish at me now that I've actually done it.

Lopen posted...

A claim you can't just make today despite it being a joke role

I can, but it is not in town's best interests. Simple enough. I won't be claiming today. I don't even care if this dumbass role gets me lynched, as you'd know exactly why I played it the way I did when you saw the flip.

I see this

You claim it's a joke role
You let the town deign how it's used
You turn around and say you're trying to break it

1 and 2 work together. 3 doesn't work with 1 or 2. 3 is you giving it weight it didn't have when you thought it up because you had to cover the contradiction Chang pointed out that you wouldn't engage with a joke role.

Actually it might be as simple as Ulti knows it isn't in my nature to fake needing to vote almost everyone today. I don't make senseless plays like that. Never have, never will.

"lol" I posted that in the CFP topic.

Lopen posted...

I see this

You claim it's a joke role
You let the town deign how it's used
You turn around and say you're trying to break it

1 and 2 work together. 3 doesn't work with 1 or 2. 3 is you giving it weight it didn't have when you thought it up because you had to cover the contradiction Chang pointed out that you wouldn't engage with a joke role.

I absolutely am trying to break it. That's exactly why I said I needed to vote everyone but one person. That's the key to breaking my role.

And if you want to blame anyone, blame Death after the game for giving me this shit.

If it's a joke role there would be nothing TO break.

I do think Lopen is being a little bit fishy, but was okay since he was pushing his vote at the same time.

I agree that I thought Blade coming in with the "I'm trying to break it" story only after Chang, Lopen, and I discussed it a little was a little odd. I'm not sure there's as big a contradiction there as Lopen is making it out to be, but it was something I picked up on immediately when reading Blade's post.

Lopen posted...

If it's a joke role there would be nothing TO break.

That's just your opinion. I planned my day 1 and my day 2 in the pre-game, and I'm still following that plan.

EDumey posted...

I do think Lopen is being a little bit fishy, but was okay since he was pushing his vote at the same time.

I agree that I thought Blade coming in with the "I'm trying to break it" story only after Chang, Lopen, and I discussed it a little was a little odd. I'm not sure there's as big a contradiction there as Lopen is making it out to be, but it was something I picked up on immediately when reading Blade's post.

It's the reason I did it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Meow1000 posted...

It seems kinda... Tangential to bring up how the Ben pressure died and then pin it on a single low activity player

When this topic started Ben led with 3 votes (the votals on top are wrong). Two of those votes were you guys.

So while Ben came out of focus as a topic, he still had the 3 votes until you guys just switched off of him. Ben has been a nonfactor in this topic as far as posting goes outside of needling Lopen a little at the start.

##Vote: Ben

Hi Ben come back.

What is your actual case against Ben? I voted him and asked him some questions which I thought he responded to decently enough, so I didn't mind moving away from him. What's the sticking point that we should still be looking at Ben for?

Also my biggest problem with Lopen's fishing is I've made it clear it won't be long before I claim but he keeps demanding to know. It comes off like he knows it's real and he's afraid of what it might do.

When I hear "joke role" I think of like pineapple vendor. Something low impact that may as well be vanilla.

Yours sounds more "contrived" or "annoying" or "poorly designed." It sounds potentially very high impact if played in certain ways which doesn't seem like a joke role at all.

Like you can backpedal and redefine what joke role means to fix that inconsistency but I think the only reason you're doing that is because we talked about it.

EDumey posted...

What is your actual case against Ben? I voted him and asked him some questions which I thought he responded to decently enough, so I didn't mind moving away from him. What's the sticking point that we should still be looking at Ben for?

The way Ben acted towards Lopen earlier didn't feel like someone trying to solve him. It felt like someone who acted like Lopen was scum and then decided to give arguments after the fact.

Given Ben hasn't had any other major contribution to the game, I would like to see another.

Lopen posted...

When I hear "joke role" I think of like pineapple vendor. Something low impact that may as well be vanilla.

Yours sounds more "contrived" or "annoying" or "poorly designed." It sounds potentially very high impact if played in certain ways which doesn't seem like a joke role at all.

Like you can backpedal and redefine what joke role means to fix that inconsistency but I think the only reason you're doing that is because we talked about it.

Pineapple vendor isn't really a joke role. It has a tactical use to the game that can confirm actions.

Is your role weaker than pineapple vendor?

Lopen posted...

Is your role weaker than pineapple vendor?

"Is your role a threat to me?"

Just as a reminder on Scare, this is his post at the start of this topic claiming Sultan to be one of his "main scum reads"

ScareChan posted...

Sultan is my other main scum read and it seems most people have issue with him. I'm good moving to him

##Vote: Sultan

Let's cook

And these posts around 1.257 is his case for his scum reads:

Fastbreak posted... Excellent, thank you

Lopen suggested Ben could be powerwolfing to save Ulti, and hard disagree. I don't think Ben is ever scum with ulti. Scum/scum Ben buses Ulti hard if he buys what Lopen is selling

Fastbreak posted...

I have a problem with Sultan and Dumey

They both admitted to having had discussion at the end of the last game saying that Ulti has accurate day 1s and that he should he sheeped. Neither of them have seemed to follow that though.

Sultan I know is willing to sheep if he has nothing better to go on, and Dumey very clearly just said he thinks Ulti is town.

Fastbreak posted...

Ulti went after corrik and they steered clear.

Way too early to call scumteam vibe: Sultan, Dumey, Corrik, Lopen

Peaf and Chang both really liked Scare's posts. I think they were probably fine as some introduction comments on his initial catchup. But sticking to Sultan and moving his vote to Sultan just because he had a few other votes is jumping on a bandwagon with the flimsiest of prior suspicion possible.

Also Scare's entire read of the game is based on the idea that Ulti is town. Literally every part of his proposed scum team is based on that assumption.

Lopen posted...

This is actually a very good point

If Blade gets a joke role (as he's called it) that needs him to do something stupid I feel like he just... doesn't use it.

Blade would call this a joke role because of the stupid requirement, even if its the most powerful role in the game,. That part of how he is playing this tracks with what I expect town Blade to say

Scare's Sultan vote was bad and it was the start of a lot of the momentum leaving Ben. He calls out Sultan sometimes being a sheep as scum (which is true), but.. I don't really see where Sultan has been guilty of sheeping.

One of the things I want from Ben is a chime in on Scare. The two of them feel distant from each other and I'd like to close that gap.

Lopen posted...

Or

Is it a high visibility scum role

##Vote: Blade

Yeah I dunno. He's been pretty passive today too. For Blade. Like town Blade is usually trying to actively shake out the game for content. None of that today. Just a bunch of shit posting and needling Sultan mostly.

I think it's Blade Scare Ben atm.

You're wrong

PunishedBen posted...

Blade would call this a joke role because of the stupid requirement, even if its the most powerful role in the game,. That part of how he is playing this tracks with what I expect town Blade to say

I mean yeah, my hatred of these kinds of roles is pretty well recorded at this point. If I could've ignored the necessity of what I had to do today, I would've.

PunishedBen posted...

You're wrong

Ben see above I want your comments on Scare.

Meow1000 posted...

Scare's Sultan vote was bad and it was the start of a lot of the momentum leaving Ben. He calls out Sultan sometimes being a sheep as scum (which is true), but.. I don't really see where Sultan has been guilty of sheeping.

One of the things I want from Ben is a chime in on Scare. The two of them feel distant from each other and I'd like to close that gap.

My thoughts on Scare are really simple. I feel like most of the major things he has done is defend me. Which....on one hand, I like that, that's good for me, I want to keep that in the game. On the other hand he's done it as scum before! But I dont feel like there's enough from him yet for me to say anything definitive. Maybe its just because I hate to be wrong about Scare

PunishedBen posted...

My thoughts on Scare are really simple. I feel like most of the major things he has done is defend me. Which....on one hand, I like that, that's good for me, I want to keep that in the game. On the other hand he's done it as scum before! But I dont feel like there's enough from him yet for me to say anything definitive. Maybe its just because I hate to be wrong about Scare

What's funny is I feel like almost everything in this post applies to your behavior towards me

Also Ben were you...

...Scummoned?

(In before Lopen says I yelled at you on the scum board to show up)

undefined posted...

[4] Sultan - Peaf, Scare, Lopen, Corrik, (Blade)

Lopen posted...

Assume Sultan is town. If town I think at this state there is almost certainly one scum on him.

I think it's probably Scare or Blade of this set. I much prefer lynching Scare of the lot.

Like when I read this post I also thought Scare. I dont know why. Maybe there's something there I'm ignoring because i dont want to kill him.

Meow1000 posted...

Also Ben were you...

...Scummoned?

No I just got here. I'm a page or so behind still as well on catching up

PunishedBen posted...

Like when I read this post I also thought Scare. I dont know why. Maybe there's something there I'm ignoring because i dont want to kill him.

Peaf's reasoning on Sultan was similar enough to why I suspected him, even if Peaf claimed to have the reasoning first "lol".

I would like Scare to explain where he's felt like Sultan has "sheeped" this game, because Sultan's been all over the place.

Blade I think you're reading that part wrong. Scare didn't say Sultan was sheeping this game. He said Sultan is the type of player that WILL sheep, but actively chose not to.

EDumey posted...

Blade I think you're reading that part wrong. Scare didn't say Sultan was sheeping this game. He said Sultan is the type of player that WILL sheep, but actively chose not to.

One of the best ways to catch scum Sultan is to catch him sheeping a vote he clearly doesn't believe in.

I don't necessarily see the lack of sheeping as scum indicative.

Sultan usually sheeps a loud player that buddies up to him and he's had no friends here

Lopen posted...

Sultan usually sheeps a loud player that buddies up to him and he's had no friends here

scum sultan or sultan in general?

Sultan in general

I think it's a bad thread to pursue and Blade has the right idea on how to catch Sultan for sheeping

Meow1000 posted...

The way Ben acted towards Lopen earlier didn't feel like someone trying to solve him. It felt like someone who acted like Lopen was scum and then decided to give arguments after the fact.

Given Ben hasn't had any other major contribution to the game, I would like to see another.

He claimed a role that is not real. That's where all of my prodding him starts really. Its not resolved, because he is sticking to that claim. I am willing to let it fester for now on the chance he is town gambiting.

PunishedBen posted...

He claimed a role that is not real

Take note of Ben's conviction in this as the game plays out.

Lopen posted...

Take note of Ben's conviction in this as the game plays out.

Uh

Pot calling the kettle black much?

No.

Alright, we are really (by we I mean Lopen) spending way too much time on the Blade's role subject, for something that is so obviously fine. If anything its super towny behavior coming from Blade and how he is playing this. At least let the guy claim first before you call the role that you dont know a scum role. Its clearly pre-planned by him already, so you're not going to get anything out of him forcing him to claim faster.

I would hope Sultan is not scum after that giving up post. Has he done that and ever been annoyed as scum before? I remember him doing it as town. I do think he has no actual reason to be annoyed at Blade, when they're just trying to play the game. But whatever.

Peaf is a man of few words, but all of his words are solid. I stand by him being town.

Dumey is warming up to me a lot. I just want to get this out there, but Dumey should know I am town by now. If this makes no sense to anyone now, it will, someday in the future ;) Time is relative and all.

I feel like I have strong emotions tugging both ways still on Lopen and Sultan, but of course since I at least have something strong to say about them, I'd rather actually pursue lynching someone on the outskirts today

Lopen posted...

Sultan usually sheeps a loud player that buddies up to him and he's had no friends here

That's true.

I'll be your friend Sultan

Sultan has a friend now and has already begun sheeping him

Blade will there be any issues that screw with you if we were to lynch Chang today? I'm asking because yes Chang lynch is still on the table for me currently

PunishedBen posted...

Alright, we are really (by we I mean Lopen) spending way too much time on the Blade's role subject, for something that is so obviously fine. If anything its super towny behavior coming from Blade and how he is playing this. At least let the guy claim first before you call the role that you dont know a scum role. Its clearly pre-planned by him already, so you're not going to get anything out of him forcing him to claim faster.

I wouldn't say it's so obviously fine, but it feels like he's trying to both manufacture reasons to go after me and figure out if my role is a threat. It's also one hell of a distraction and it's the worst looking thing he's done all day by a wide margin.

wallmasterz posted...

##Vote: Sbell

Here comes a new challenger?

PunishedBen posted...

Blade will there be any issues that screw with you if we were to lynch Chang today? I'm asking because yes Chang lynch is still on the table for me currently

It's not "optimal" for me, but it's still acceptable. Chang has done fuck all today. I have my reasons for not voting him, but those reasons aren't enough to hard deny his lynch.

changmas posted...

scum points to dumey for assuming there's a flavor split

On the contrary/objection/getcountered, do you have a reason to assume there isn't a flavor split???

Meow1000 posted...

Peaf's reasoning on Sultan was similar enough to why I suspected him, even if Peaf claimed to have the reasoning first "lol".

Buddy you used the exact same word as me in t1.435 and that was after wallz pressed me on my usage of the word. Check your timeline. That is what I was referring to when i said the parroting thing this morning.

I'm feeling better about dumey and it is catching me by surprise. I never feel better about dumey.

PeaceFrog posted...

Buddy you used the exact same word as me in t1.435 and that was after wallz pressed me on my usage of the word. Check your timeline. That is what I was referring to when i said the parroting thing this morning.

I'm feeling better about dumey and it is catching me by surprise. I never feel better about dumey.

And I used that same wording like 400 posts before then.