Board 8 > Time Travelers Mafia Topic 1: Start the Doomsday Clock

(+) Yeah! (+)

Lopen posted...

Ben and Sultan are both scum and distancing

Both had terrible reactions to my claim alongside Ulti's just on opposite sides of the spectrum. Sultan's playing dumb on my mechanics, Ben on my potential motivations. Ben feels like he's working backwards from conclusions rather than working towards them.

Just my thoughts.

I am. I'm from the future

Let's kill someone.

That someone is lopen. Let me see if my role has a gun. If so I'll shoot him.

PunishedBen posted...

And for the record Sultan was saying the Lopen role was fake before he transitioned to the role is confusing and then to believing Ulti was scum because the role says so

I think you're trying too hard to pin a developing read as inconsistency or hypocrisy or something.

1. This role is too confusing as town.
2. I guess I could see it as 3P.
3. If it WERE town, that would mean Ulti has to be scum or anti-town.
4. Here's how I can see Ulti's claim being true and scum-aligned.

I dunno, it doesn't seem like a fake progression to me. I guess my only real question for Sultan is that if he feels like the timing of Ulti claiming Link Flavor and Lopen being immediately available and ready to claim a role that specifically counters him too convenient, why would he vote Ulti there instead of Lopen? Isn't Lopen the more suspect one in the "too convenient" case? That doesn't feel like Sultan/Ulti both scum together.

Okay. Nevermind. Someone else shoot lopen. Lame.

damn, corrik has no gun confirmed.

EDumey posted...

I think you're trying too hard to pin a developing read as inconsistency or hypocrisy or something.

1. This role is too confusing as town.
2. I guess I could see it as 3P.
3. If it WERE town, that would mean Ulti has to be scum or anti-town.
4. Here's how I can see Ulti's claim being true and scum-aligned.
I dunno, it doesn't seem like a fake progression to me. I guess my only real question for Sultan is that if he feels like the timing of Ulti claiming Link Flavor and Lopen being immediately available and ready to claim a role that specifically counters him too convenient, why would he vote Ulti there instead of Lopen? Isn't Lopen the more suspect one in the "too convenient" case? That doesn't feel like Sultan/Ulti both scum together.

In a Sultan is scum scenario, I think Ulti and Lopen are both town. And then Wallz is scum, lol. But i don't like to read ahead that far in advance.

I'm our gun obviously Corrik has no gun

oh true lopen is our gun that can only shoot one specific person. i forgot.

Also Ben, before we move on from this conversation entirely, can you just acknowledge that you said Sultan didn't question Lopen's alignment at all, but then I quoted where he was directly considering how 3P made more sense than town?

Cuz the point I was making with my voting post wasn't really to defend/accuse Sultan again, but to bring up how I thought your accusation of him being fake wasn't grounded.

You know who didn't question alignments at all when assessing this situation.

Scare. What do you think about Scare, Ben?

Ben keeps changing his story on what he thinks. He first said it was fake now he is saying it is inconsistent. The said I was ignoring lopen all together. I was working through them how I've seen roles or used roles and how they would function as explained. Sure it looks scrambled I do admit

Sultan I have one direct question for you on this line of questioning:

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

The more lopen exsplains the role the more i get confused.

is death usually creative with roles in cant remember the last death game off the top of my head

Anyways Dumey is like championing Lopens claim. His logic is okay if he beleives the claim

I think my issue it seems way to damn convenient that Ulti hints Link openly, lopen just happens to claim. That flavor. The level of convenient is to much for me.

I personally want to just avoid the whole situation beacuse its annoying but the idea of resolving it may be the best way to move forward

You had an issue with the convenience of the Ulti/Lopen interaction. Peaf and Blade pushed back at you. Then you voted Ulti. Why Ulti instead of Lopen?

EDumey posted...

oh true lopen is our gun that can only shoot one specific person. i forgot.

Also Ben, before we move on from this conversation entirely, can you just acknowledge that you said Sultan didn't question Lopen's alignment at all, but then I quoted where he was directly considering how 3P made more sense than town?

Cuz the point I was making with my voting post wasn't really to defend/accuse Sultan again, but to bring up how I thought your accusation of him being fake wasn't grounded.

By question I meant he wasn't CONFUSED about the alignment but was being confused about how the role works instead. But yes I'll acknowledge you made counter points that make me question if I'm making a big deal out of typical Sultanisms that aren't worth pursuing. The issue is that I didn't like the tone of all his posts around that time and am trying to explain both to you and to myself why that is

##vote: Lopen

Sure lets kill Lopen.

Lopen posted...

You know who didn't question alignments at all when assessing this situation.

Scare. What do you think about Scare, Ben?

Nothing. As in it didn't commit anything to memory about his posts. I could go back and look but it would be forced to come up with something

EDumey posted...

Sultan I have one direct question for you on this line of questioning:

You had an issue with the convenience of the Ulti/Lopen interaction. Peaf and Blade pushed back at you. Then you voted Ulti. Why Ulti instead of Lopen?

Honestly that's a good question. But in my mind at the time and outta frustration I just picked one was thinking scum scum theater or something

red13n posted...

I think we just kill Ulti for that claim, at a glance. I need to reread the actual interaction at some point.

What a change of heart from red

PunishedBen posted...

Nothing. As in it didn't commit anything to memory about his posts. I could go back and look but it would be forced to come up with something

I looked and yeah, nothing to say YET but to give Scare more time to let me form an opinion of them.

Lopen posted...

And what if he doesn't buy what I'm selling

Assuming you are town and Ben is scum in this scenario, Ben loves to buy whatever town is selling

So what you think Ben pretends to believe me as scum? How does that meaningfully differ from changing to believing I'm town after deciding to disbelieve after generating no meaningful pressure on me.

Lopen posted...

UltimaterializerX posted...

Dumey has the correct read on me tho just like last game.

Then he should have followed your vote

EDumey posted...

Honestly you're right. My post was skipping steps. But it wasn't something I was seriously advocating for, since I think Lopen is lying about his claim. More just pointing out a connection between Ulti/Sultan based on Sultan's reaction to Lopen's claim. If Ulti actually is a godfather, then Sultan's post kind of sounded like scum frustration. But that would be a bad reason to vote Sultan D1 before verifying Lopen/Ulti.

The problem with this is you're ignoring the several posts I had immediately after Ulti's Corrik vote where I clearly expressed disappointment with his rationale and how bad I thought his vote was. The whole point of bringing up the sheeping thing was because I thought it was funny how quickly that ideal plan of just blind trusting Ulti fell apart because I immediately had major issues with his initial callout. I realize it may only really be humorous to me, but I never actually had any intent to sheep someone. That's not how I play mafia. Saying I'm "not following through" on a meta joke is very silly. Though obviously we don't interact that much Scare, so I'm willing to give you a pass on not knowing me very well.

Just to be clear, my post #250 stated that I think the most likely scenario is Lopen is lying/baiting reactions with his claim.

At the point of being in a dtc your views become meta and should be clear of alignment. If your meta is "ulti is usually right to start the game" why are you not humoring that? At the very least to see where it goes. To go against your own views immediately suggests there's an ulterior motive. Why bring it up at all?

Lopen posted...

So what you think Ben pretends to believe me as scum? How does that meaningfully differ from changing to believing I'm town after deciding to disbelieve after generating no meaningful pressure on me.

You 'claimed' and there is like no pressure on you. What good would come of Ben pressing you further?

I'm usually very good at reading Ben

Fastbreak posted...

You 'claimed' and there is like no pressure on you. What good would come of Ben pressing you further?

It feels like you're framing Ben's actions in a "meaningful advancement of the gamestate" way and not a "scum hunting" way

Ben suspected me. Now he does not. Are you saying he pretended to suspect me to generate pressure and is now pretending not to because it is going nowhere?

"isn't it funny that ulti is usually right but no one ever believes him"
one game later
"oh my god ulti that vote is so bad, i can't follow you on that"

do you not see why i might find that funny enough to reference and bring up?

If I could dayvig it would be Dumey

Like right now, that's how sure I am he will flip scum

EDumey posted...

"isn't it funny that ulti is usually right but no one ever believes him"
one game later
"oh my god ulti that vote is so bad, i can't follow you on that"

do you not see why i might find that funny enough to reference and bring up?

Bringing it up only to not follow it is posting for the sake of posting which is scum behavior

Lopen posted...

It feels like you're framing Ben's actions in a "meaningful advancement of the gamestate" way and not a "scum hunting" way

Ben suspected me. Now he does not. Are you saying he pretended to suspect me to generate pressure and is now pretending not to because it is going nowhere?

All I'm saying is that Ben and Ulti are never scum together because of the way that all played out

Fastbreak posted...

If I could dayvig it would be Dumey

Like right now, that's how sure I am he will flip scum

i will quote this to you in the post game lol

The game is exactly 100 posts into the future from when I left.

sus

EDumey posted...

i will quote this to you in the post game lol

You're really that sure Scare is town huh

Lopen posted...

You're really that sure Scare is town huh

zzzz

Man that Sultan vote on me is all sorts of terrible. There isn't one thing that really justifies it as any more than glorified fluff.

Red wins the "most terrible vote" competition

"We should kill Ulti Lopen's role wouldn't be able to kill town" to "lets kill Lopen"

Sultan is probably #2 though. Maybe #1 through sheer body of work since he came off a bad Ulti vote too.

PunishedBen posted...

Well if I explain that its a Page 1 soul read then people are going to listen to it less. But hmm, let me try to see if I can be more concrete. I liked that he was trying hard, out of the gate. Not to look town I think but to put town on the best starting foot.

I also had this same conclusion from Dumey's post, and when Blade is Ninja'ing what I'm thinking its always historically been good.

I was trying "hard" out of the gate?

How exactly was I doing that

Lopen posted...

Red wins the "most terrible vote" competition

"We should kill Ulti Lopen's role wouldn't be able to kill town" to "lets kill Lopen"

Sultan is probably #2 though. Maybe #1 through sheer body of work since he came off a bad Ulti vote too.

What makes Sultan's vote so bad is that it's a bad vote on the first person to openly voice suspicion on him, and there was effectively no actual belief or fervor put behind the vote. It's hollow. It just exists.

And that's the problem I had with Sultan early. He felt like he was a forcing posts just to exist.

Meow1000 posted...

I was trying "hard" out of the gate?

How exactly was I doing that

By engaging with every single player on page 1 and making meaningful reads immediately. You took the page 1 hero position, who sets the game on a course instead of testing the waters first. I like it. Its enough for me.

But like do you have any idea how easy that was to do given how bad last game was

Though it's at least a lot more accurate andassessment of my page 1 than Dumey gave.

Lopen posted...

Ben suspected me. Now he does not. Are you saying he pretended to suspect me to generate pressure and is now pretending not to because it is going nowhere?

Lopen just to be clear, I still suspect you in as far as I know your role claim is BS. Your alignment in the game can still go either way, and it even leans scum as long as you say its true.

However, even at peak Lopen exposed I never voted you or told people to lynch you. So dont act like I tried to kill you earlier and am now backing off. I understand and always felt letting you live for a night no questions asked is the best play today

Meow1000 posted...

But like do you have any idea how easy that was to do given how bad last game was

Though it's at least a lot more accurate andassessment of my page 1 than Dumey gave.

I;m sure it would be easy for you as both alignments. But as scum its even easier and better play for you to let us kill ourselves and keep more to yourself, after last game. (Also I wasnt in last game so I assume you're saying it was inactive)

PunishedBen posted...

I;m sure it would be easy for you as both alignments. But as scum its even easier and better play for you to let us kill ourselves and keep more to yourself, after last game. (Also I wasnt in last game so I assume you're saying it was inactive)

Last game has multiple zero posters including a scum zero posters who was alive at lylo so

Lopen posted...

Red wins the "most terrible vote" competition

"We should kill Ulti Lopen's role wouldn't be able to kill town" to "lets kill Lopen"

Sultan is probably #2 though. Maybe #1 through sheer body of work since he came off a bad Ulti vote too.

I had a chance to actually read.

You seem wholly unserious, you don't seem to be skeptical of ulti, and there doesn't seem to be any conspiracy brain lopen running around here. You lack that as scum.

Also last game being that bad is a good reason for scum to take charge early.

Then if the game turns into that anyway you have the "at least I tried to do something" to fall back on.

Meow1000 posted...

But like do you have any idea how easy that was to do given how bad last game was

Though it's at least a lot more accurate andassessment of my page 1 than Dumey gave.

I stand by my accuracy of recollecting Blade moments! Everything I said was true!

Conspiracy brain Lopen d1 is a myth scum plays up when they want to mislynch me

There is no data. I don't pull literal setups out of my ass.

It's a 13 player game and Link exists and I can try to kill him and that's all I know.

Lopen posted...

Conspiracy brain Lopen d1 is a myth scum plays up when they want to mislynch me

No.

Meow1000 posted...

What makes Sultan's vote so bad is that it's a bad vote on the first person to openly voice suspicion on him, and there was effectively no actual belief or fervor put behind the vote. It's hollow. It just exists.

And that's the problem I had with Sultan early. He felt like he was a forcing posts just to exist.

Answer this what justify not voting you. You play commentary and complain about your role..

I could vote someone else sure but idk you just bugg me

Conspiracy brain Lopen happens like... day 4 usually. MAYBE day 3 if the setup is kinda wack.

We need a new topic.

TheSultanOfSlam posted...

Answer this what justify not voting you. You play commentary and complain about your role..

I could vote someone else sure but idk you just bugg me

So basicaly

"I won't give a real reason for voting you, but you should give me a reason not to"

Yeah, not how it works.