Current Events > would you betray your convictions for cash money

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let's say you're acab. would you be a cop for a million dollar a week salary?

would you work in Big Oil? or pharma?

would you work for republican campaigns for a comparable salary?

Ya

for enough money yes

"enough" would depend a lot on the circumstances and the condition and probably require more thought than I am willing to spend on a theoretical

results unsurprising thus far

For a million a week Id do basically anything, then retire in 3 months or so and do something else.

Im autistic so no, that sounds like hell.

kirbymuncher posted...

for enough money yes

"enough" would depend a lot on the circumstances and the condition and probably require more thought than I am willing to spend on a theoretical

PraetorXyn posted...

For a million a week Id do basically anything, then retire in 3 months or so and do something else.

are they even convictions to begin with at that point though? it doesnt sound like it

Depends on if I am restricted what I can do with said money.

I would gladly take someone's money (if they represented something against my convictions) and then use it against them.

I also would not betray my country in exchange for money.

Dungeater posted...

are they even convictions to begin with at that point though? it doesnt sound like it

I'm just being realistic here. well and also I'm at least somewhat subscribed to utilitarianism as a general philosophy which is sort of what this question touches on I think.

Like this?
Dungeater posted...

let's say you're acab. would you be a cop for a million dollar a week salary?

a million dollars a week is an absurd amount of money. I could work for like 3 months, pocket enough cash to never have to work for the rest of my life, and still have enough left to finance or run or etc various programs that further my acab beliefs to a degree where the positive vastly outweighs any negative impact I had

Depends how desperate I was.

Living comfortably with no real money worries? No.

Worried about how I was going to pay the rent and eat this month? Very probably.

an absurd amount of money is the point, because the question is "are your principles for sale, or are they real", and i know ppl here would overthink it if i didnt make it obvious (which ppl are doing anyway)

Dungeater posted...

let's say you're acab. would you be a cop for a million dollar a week salary?

Sure

would you work in Big Oil? or pharma?

Sure

would you work for republican campaigns for a comparable salary?

That depends since most of what the Republicans are doing seems to be literal crimes that are treason adjacent and I'm not going to jail not even for a million dollars a week. I'll happily do something normal like take polls for Republicans though.

i recall the time CE voted in a 90/10 split that they would pocket a 20 they found on the floor in a fast food rest room

Depends on the balance between the convictions and the money.

Dungeater posted...

an absurd amount of money is the point, because the question is "are your principles for sale, or are they real", and i know ppl here would overthink it if i didnt make it obvious (which ppl are doing anyway)

Yeah, I get that, and I think my answer is basically that there are very few principles I wouldn't give up for enough cash

but then on the flip side I realize that I have literally turned down a job offer (at a better salary) in the past because I didn't want to work for a government spy agency. so I guess the question is just about it not just being some money but a lot of money

Dungeater posted...

i recall the time CE voted in a 90/10 split that they would pocket a 20 they found on the floor in a fast food rest room

I mean your realistic options there are:
A) Keep it
B) Inform employees/management to ask if anyone present lost a $20 (which anyone could claim)
C) Inform employees/management and they take it (and pocket it personally or for the store)

its just unattended cash. It isn't that big of a moral statement.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_JTzEppKy8

Dungeater posted...

an absurd amount of money is the point, because the question is "are your principles for sale, or are they real", and i know ppl here would overthink it if i didnt make it obvious (which ppl are doing anyway)

Those are weak principles though and there's ways to engage in those things without compromising your principles. If you believe acab, you can still go be a cop who calls out injustice and lies perpetrated by cops. Acab doesn't literally mean the individuals, it's about a systemic problem. The adherents are usually quick to point out that good cops exist but they never last because they get fired for trying to do the right thing.

You should ask a real question like "would you be the leader of scientology or perform unauthorized hysterectomies for a million a week"

Depends on the money and the particular conviction.

wackyteen posted...

I mean your realistic options there are:
A) Keep it
B) Inform employees/management to ask if anyone present lost a $20 (which anyone could claim)
C) Inform employees/management and they take it (and pocket it personally or for the store)

its just unattended cash. It isn't that big of a moral statement.

it's not about making a "moral statement", whatever that means. it's about doing the right thing. the fact you're even thinking of it like i'm trying to make some sort of statement shows just how cynical and out of touch with ethics u and the average person are

Tyranthraxus posted...

Those are weak principles though and there's ways to engage in those things without compromising your principles. If you believe acab, you can still go be a cop who calls out injustice and lies perpetrated by cops. Acab doesn't literally mean the individuals, it's about a systemic problem. The adherents are usually quick to point out that good cops exist but they never last because they get fired for trying to do the right thing.

You should ask a real question like "would you be the leader of scientology or perform unauthorized hysterectomies for a million a week"

Yeah, I'd gladly be a cop for 52 weeks for a million a week. Make $52M, take half that, invest it. Take $5M to live on. Then use the remaining $21M to fund efforts to expose corrupt cops and hold their feet to the fire.

Tyranthraxus posted...

Those are weak principles though and there's ways to engage in those things without compromising your principles. If you believe acab, you can still go be a cop who calls out injustice and lies perpetrated by cops. Acab doesn't literally mean the individuals, it's about a systemic problem. The adherents are usually quick to point out that good cops exist but they never last because they get fired for trying to do the right thing.

You should ask a real question like "would you be the leader of scientology or perform unauthorized hysterectomies for a million a week"

my topic was very obviously not comprehensive, i do not believe only 4 principles exist

also life is not fallout, you guys can cope with "i'd use the money for good" but you're still doin what yer doin

Dungeater posted...

my topic was very obviously not comprehensive, i do not believe only 4 principles exist

also life is not fallout, you guys can cope with "i'd use the money for good" but you're still doin what yer doin

Then your question is functionally this:

"If there exists something that you would not do for a million dollars a week, would you do it for a million dollars a week?"

Tyranthraxus posted...

You should ask a real question like "would you be the leader of scientology or perform unauthorized hysterectomies for a million a week"

I think it's not really about the specifics, those are just some possible examples you can pick whatever you want that fits you. you want a real question? how much would you have to be paid to kill someone? (assuming you cannot face jail time or whatever so it's all moral rather than personal negatives)

it's trolley problems all the way down

Tyranthraxus posted...

Then your question is functionally this:

"If there exists something that you would not do for a million dollars a week, would you do it for a million dollars a week?"

kirbymuncher posted...

it's not really about the specifics, those are just some possible examples you can pick whatever you want that fits you

god

kirbymuncher posted...

how much would you have to be paid to kill someone?

Considering my job involves being ready to do just that...

I've been paid as little as $1,531.50 a month to be willing to fight, kill and die in the name of my country.

How much would I need to be paid to kill an otherwise random, presumably innocent, non-combatant? I wouldn't kill indiscriminately for money. Only exception being Nazis, but their mere existence is an existential threat to my country so I'd view it as upholding my oath (and thus by extension in line with and being true to my own convictions).

Mods, I'm not advocating violence against anyone or any political ideology. Just participating in the discussion

kirbymuncher posted...

I think it's not really about the specifics, those are just some possible examples you can pick whatever you want that fits you. you want a real question? how much would you have to be paid to kill someone? (assuming you cannot face jail time or whatever so it's all moral rather than personal negatives)

it's trolley problems all the way down

Such a question has no nuance though. There's some people I would never kill for any amount of money (like my brother) and some people I'd kill for free (an active shooter in a school I was in).

If you stick me in the trolley problem, I try to derail the trolley. You say I can't do that, but I try anyway, because even if I fail, I at least tried my best to save everyone.

wackyteen posted...

I've been paid as little as $1,531.50 a month to be willing to fight, kill and die in the name of my country.

this explains much

wackyteen posted...

How much would I need to be paid to kill an otherwise random, presumably innocent, non-combatant? I wouldn't kill indiscriminately for money.

I guess I wasn't being specific but this is what I was intending to ask basically. just sorta walk out and whoever you find on the street. I'm trying to remove the whole "well I'd do the work but I wouldn't do the actually bad part" sort of loophole

Tyranthraxus posted...

Such a question has no nuance though.

yeah I was unclear, sorry

Tyranthraxus posted...

If you stick me in the trolley problem, I try to derail the trolley. You say I can't do that, but I try anyway, because even if I fail, I at least tried my best to save everyone.

This, too, is a choice. I don't really mean to condemn anyone for picking one option or the other in any of this stuff (in part because I realize my own stance is probably not that popular <_<) I just think the different conclusions people come to are interesting

Dungeater posted...

this explains much

Unlike some who describe themselves as patriots in an effort to gain power or to mask their more reprehensible views, I am a fanatically loyal patriot to the United States of America willing to do whatever is asked of me in order to support and defend its Constitution.

While the benefits and pay of my career are nice, they are not the reason I have been in the Army for nearly 11 years now. I do what I do chiefly in the name of loyally and selflessly serving my country.

Dungeater posted...

let's say you're acab. would you be a cop for a million dollar a week salary?

would you work in Big Oil? or pharma?

would you work for republican campaigns for a comparable salary?

I mean, you'll need to knock that pay down considerably to make it a thought experiment. Or put in those magic qualifiers, cause working 2 months and collecting 8 mill will set you for life while not doing any lasting harm from the work you did in that 2 months.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/16cebbfa.jpg

in this economy?

The only conviction I can think that I have is, I wouldn't hurt/kill someone for money. I'd think anything else could be negotiable

Heineken14 posted...

I mean, you'll need to knock that pay down considerably to make it a thought experiment

no, not for my purposes. in fact that would defeat the point. i'm trying to eliminate the ability to say "no" to those who in actuality are unprincipled. I wouldn't do it, so i know there are those out there

Nope. I was homeless, I don't need a lot of money to get by lol. No amount of money is gonna get me to change my mind on my views.

I do almost everyday, I work for a living

But what betraying my convictions is one of my convictions?

Depends on which convictions. The scenario you provide though I'm not acab id easily take. You never said I have to use excessive force/kill people. I can't help what other cops do. Yeah I could report them but I'd likely lose my job so it really doesn't matter cause if I didn't take the deal they'd still do what they do.

If I was required to murder rape actively enable it or what have you no I couldn't do it. But a scenario like you provide where shit is gonna happen rather I take the deal or not l? Yeah gimme money.

It kinda depends on what level of the job Id be working at.. pushing buttons on a for example machine is much different than being the CEO that bought the machine with the intention of forking out fake cancer medicine

R_Jackal posted...

Nope. I was homeless, I don't need a lot of money to get by lol. No amount of money is gonna get me to change my mind on my views.

chad

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

chad

Somehow giving examples seemingly breaks this easy exercise for some of you? I don't know. But ignore the examples, and think of YOUR most deeply held convictions. If you are already doing that and still saying you'd betray them then...okay.

But for me? No. I couldn't. But I'm a lot simpler than others, I guess. A basic boy. Simple that is to say, in that my convictions revolve around not actively and intentionally harming innocents. I'd sooner inflict it upon myself than someone else. I'd rather redacted myself than harm someone else.

If it's just being a cop and I can slack off or w/e yeah. If it's making an actual negative effect, nah.

kirbymuncher posted...

for enough money yes

"enough" would depend a lot on the circumstances and the condition and probably require more thought than I am willing to spend on a theoretical

This.

If I had to be a cop for a million a week, I'd work for six months and then quit.

Depends on the extent, I guess

I work for a company that makes a luxury version of a product for almost exclusively very wealthy people

i don't love that I work on something catering to the rich, but I also need a job

on the other hand a recruiter reached out to me for a software job at a gun accessory company and that was a hell nah from me

Nope. I couldn't even live with myself participating in much milder occupation-related moral quandaries for survival. There's no way I could be truly evil for any amount of money because I wouldn't be able to tolerate myself to enjoy it.

TheLiarParadox posted...

Nope. I couldn't even live with myself participating in much milder occupation-related moral quandaries for survival. There's no way I could be truly evil for any amount of money because I wouldn't be able to tolerate myself to enjoy it.

chad

TheGoldenEel posted...

on the other hand a recruiter reached out to me for a software job at a gun accessory company and that was a hell nah from me

chad