Board 8 > Politics Containment Topic 428: Do Not Call

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 11:29:01 AM
#453:


Corrik7 posted...
Disagree. It does deter a lot of stuff and let's its focus on the real criminals.
It's a matter of statistics not opinion. There is no proof that the TSA has deterred anything, neither minor crimes nor major crimes.

They pad their stats by confiscating random items that are technically illegal but no one knows are illegal, so it can't cause deterrence. It's like if the speeding cops when out on quota day, except they only pulled over cars that had a Z in the license plate, regardless of speed.

And the department's ballooning cost over the years certainly reduces national security. They are not trained for anti-terrorism, they are entry-level security guards (which is fine for an airport really, but people pretend like they're some elite task force waiting to jump on a grenade)

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NFUN
08/26/24 11:33:53 AM
#454:


foolm0r0n posted...
cute but people are literally dying
which is why the victims should be allowed to fight without asinine restrictions that prevent them from taking initiative in defending themselves. it'd be ukraine deciding whether or not to attack airfields; if the country thinks doing so would save more lives, they should. don't be like the fucking tankies you hate, broadly smearing an ideal over any situation and completely missing the point. you're dangerously close to arguing that ukraine should just surrender completely, and should've immediately

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SaveEstelle
08/26/24 11:37:39 AM
#455:


https://www.threads.net/@omg_ryan_just/post/C_G7bdAgqYA/?xmt=AQGzIZwny8rGB5IljtQqT1Gj5tkKTX5WW88mVEE6-ElrUg

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 11:37:54 AM
#456:


NFUN posted...
you're dangerously close to arguing that ukraine should just surrender completely
And you're already beyond arguing that Israel is justified in launching a genocide in Gaza due to Oct 7.

I'm quite alright with my "dangerous" anti-war idea, it's not my first rodeo. But you need to fix your flawed philosophy before going against others.

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NFUN
08/26/24 11:45:39 AM
#457:


foolm0r0n posted...
And you're already beyond arguing that Israel is justified in launching a genocide in Gaza due to Oct 7.

I'm quite alright with my "dangerous" anti-war idea, it's not my first rodeo. But you need to fix your flawed philosophy before going against others.
Ah yes, thinking an attack on a military target by an army that has thus far restricted itself to only attacking military/logistic targets is valid implies I think a wholesale attack on random civilian populations is justified. How silly of me to miss that. I should've been able to discern how much more enlightened your argument was, but the subtle nuances of "escalation is always bad" were just too much for me to grasp

You've been completely off your rocker this last week

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 11:47:47 AM
#458:


You've always been full of shit foolmo but at this point I think you want everyone to block you to prove some point to yourself.

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Dancedreamer
08/26/24 11:58:20 AM
#459:


Is foolmo the new redsox?

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 11:58:57 AM
#460:


No, that's unfair to redsox

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LightningStrikes
08/26/24 12:15:25 PM
#461:


So foolmo what do you think should be done in Ukraine for peace then?

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 12:24:33 PM
#462:


I also think dropping the atom bombs was wrong

NFUN posted...
if the country thinks doing so would save more lives, they should
This is 100% a post that pro-Israel people write verbatim, and you've read them before. You're angry at your own inconsistency. Fix your shit.

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Corrik7
08/26/24 12:28:49 PM
#463:


I have thoughts on the Ukraine conflict, but I don't feel like getting into a 4 topic argument over it.

Personally, what we have done is in my mind a half measure at the expense of the Ukranian people. You could argue that it is a sound military strategy, but you have to acknowledge it is at the expense of the Ukranian populace.

I personally am torn whether I think it is something we should be doing. On one hand, I kind of think we should have gone all in at war with Russia over it if we felt it was a true threat of continued war and threat ti NATO.

On another hand, I think we shouldn't involve ourselves with the conflicts of others. My isolationist side rearing it's head a bit.

On my third hand, I acknowledge it might be sound military strategy just to give Ukraine enough to bog down the war, drain Russian material and manpower to no longer make them able to continue to forward, and to gauge Russian strength and tactics. At the cost of the Ukranian people, which to be fair are not our citizens and not our responsibility to defend at all.


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wallmasterz
08/26/24 12:30:03 PM
#464:


Corrik7 posted...
I have thoughts on the Ukraine conflict, but I don't feel like getting into a 4 topic argument over it.

Would you do 3 topics?

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NFUN
08/26/24 12:30:28 PM
#465:


foolm0r0n posted...
I also think dropping the atom bombs was wrong

This is 100% a post that pro-Israel people write verbatim, and you've read them before. You're angry at your own inconsistency. Fix your shit.
Foolmo, you are capable of understanding context. Look at the fucking post I was responding to. That's countering your concern trolling about the lives at stake, saying that Ukraine has the right to do their own analysis and determine if that escalation will put their civilians in more danger or not

...unless the the people that are "literally dying" you're worried about are the Russians. In which case, your post makes no sense, AFAIK there are not many Russians civvies dying because the Ukrainian army understands restraint in regards to civilians

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Inviso
08/26/24 12:30:36 PM
#466:


Let's not overlook the fact that Corrik has three hands. This is some sort of superpower, I'm sure.

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wallmasterz
08/26/24 12:32:11 PM
#467:


Corrik tried carrying the weight of the world
But he only has three hands

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Xeybozn
08/26/24 12:34:37 PM
#468:


foolm0r0n posted...
I also think dropping the atom bombs was wrong
Should the US have surrendered to Japan immediately after Pearl Harbor, or would it have been better to surrender earlier to prevent even that much violence?

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 12:38:29 PM
#469:


NFUN posted...
Foolmo, you are capable of understanding context.

Literally every argument he makes is done by reshaping context of what others say to make his own point. The only difference now is he's being more offensive about it.

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Corrik7
08/26/24 12:50:43 PM
#470:


wallmasterz posted...
Would you do 3 topics?
When I get to work in 5 hours I got 12 hours to spare.

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Kenri
08/26/24 12:52:50 PM
#471:


Xeybozn posted...
Should the US have surrendered to Japan immediately after Pearl Harbor, or would it have been better to surrender earlier to prevent even that much violence?
They should've maybe accepted Japan's surrender before (and instead of) dropping two atomic bombs on them to posture at Russia. Not sure what you're on about or what comparison foolmo is driving at here. The situations are very different.

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 12:57:50 PM
#472:


NFUN posted...
Foolmo, you are capable of understanding context.
I very much have the ability to give you the benefit of the doubt, just not the will. I'm not doing your homework for you.

You're the one making the pro-war argument. You need to do the work to explain EXACTLY why it's not the pro-Israel, War on Terror, Bush Doctrine argument that you're copying verbatim. In fact like 80% of your words should be spent on that, then you earn the right to promote war with the rest of your words. So far you're at 0%.

You don't even realize it's the exact same argument that's been happening for 75 years with the atom bombs. You think this is some new and unique context that justifies war for the first time in history. No, it's the same context that started the vast majority of US-involved wars after WW2, and many non-US wars. Do your homework.

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 12:59:49 PM
#473:


Kenri posted...
Not sure what you're on about or what comparison foolmo is driving at here. The situations are very different.
It's about justifying escalation to try to save lives/violence overall

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 1:00:02 PM
#474:


Case in fucking point

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NFUN
08/26/24 1:00:13 PM
#475:


NFUN posted...
an attack on a military target by an army that has thus far restricted itself to only attacking military/logistic targets is valid


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UshiromiyaEva
08/26/24 1:03:30 PM
#476:


Remember when Foolmo said he was bored and was gonna leave until the election?

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Kenri
08/26/24 1:05:55 PM
#477:


foolm0r0n posted...
It's about justifying escalation to try to save lives/violence overall
In this case, surely it's more about ending Russian lives to save Ukrainian lives, not saving lives overall?

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NFUN
08/26/24 1:07:18 PM
#478:


Kenri posted...
In this case, surely it's more about ending Russian lives to save Ukrainian lives, not saving lives overall?
it's not even about ending russian lives, it's about destroying military infrastructure they need to wage war. i think the best scenario is zero russian casualties on such an operation!

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 1:09:16 PM
#479:


NFUN posted...
an attack on a military target by an army that has thus far restricted itself to only attacking military/logistic targets is valid
So you agree with having strict limits on their attack targets so it can never escalate past attacking military/logistics only?

Reminder of what your original post said, so you don't accidentally gaslight yourself
NFUN posted...
which is why the victims should be allowed to fight without asinine restrictions that prevent them from taking initiative in defending themselves. it'd be ukraine deciding whether or not to attack airfields; if the country thinks doing so would save more lives, they should.

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 1:09:55 PM
#480:


UshiromiyaEva posted...
Remember when Foolmo said he was bored and was gonna leave until the election?
I didn't realize people actually discussed policy ITT not just polls!

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NFUN
08/26/24 1:11:46 PM
#481:


foolm0r0n posted...
So you agree with having strict limits on their attack targets so it can never escalate past attacking military/logistics only?

Reminder of what your original post said, so you don't accidentally gaslight yourself
"asinine" restrictions, bruv. not reasonable restrictions, asinine ones. being unwilling to give me the benefit of the doubt means asking me to be specific about what's asinine, not putting words into my mouth... but i of course was more specific later, which you ignored, so i dunno if that'd've made a difference

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 1:11:49 PM
#482:


foolm0r0n posted...
I didn't realize people actually discussed policy ITT not just polls!

Dude you were gone for like 2 hours.

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Kenri
08/26/24 1:17:19 PM
#483:


NFUN posted...
it's not even about ending russian lives, it's about destroying military infrastructure they need to wage war. i think the best scenario is zero russian casualties on such an operation!
Fair point!

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UshiromiyaEva
08/26/24 1:21:42 PM
#484:


Looks like Kemp has finally had enough with the GA State Election Board.

https://twitter.com/JustinGlawe/status/1828076417973661747?t=4MLOXxw5dZ0siA__Ymzjmw&s=19


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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 1:22:21 PM
#485:


NFUN posted...
"asinine" restrictions, bruv. not reasonable restrictions, asinine ones.
Cool we agree then. If the US has the power to prevent escalation in the war (and it does) then it should. I'm sure the military experts between US and Ukraine will figure out what's reasonable, not us or twitter.

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JeffreyRaze
08/26/24 1:23:34 PM
#486:


War isn't bad because it's war. War is bad because it causes suffering and death. So the question is whether striking the airfields will increase suffering or decrease it. In this case, Ukraine is not the aggressor and does not have the ability to end the war themselves. They can't stop the war now, so they have to try to fight the war in a way that minimizes the damage, which in this case involves crippling Russia's air capabilities.

The reason surrendering isn't an option to end the war is simple, it would increase suffering more than fighting on will. Even if the direct consequences of surrender wouldn't be worse than the war, it'd almost certainly lead to Russia doing the same thing to their other neighbours, so fighting now is necessary to prevent that. Sometimes war is the least bad option. To use an obvious extreme example, stopping Hitler was worth the cost, despite how brutal WW2 was. The alternative was simply worse.

As for the examples of Israel, the war on terror, etc, those were wars where the stronger side was attacking the weaker side. They could stop the war with the results being significantly less damage being done overall. They could unilaterally end things themselves, or never start them to begin with. Non-war measures would be much more effective in reducing harm, so they're not at all comparable to these cases.

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NFUN
08/26/24 1:25:57 PM
#487:


so

you spent all of that time

to get me to "admit" that war should have restraint

and "now" that we agree on that most basic of premises

"chessmate, lol, no reason to talk anymore bye"

and from that puff of smoke comes the assertion that we should just leave it to the experts and have no further thoughts or opinions

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 1:34:49 PM
#488:


NFUN posted...
to get me to "admit" that war should have restraint
No, to get you to admit that the US should use its power to restrict Ukraine's escalation of war. That is what #letukrainestrikebacknolimits disagrees with.

We can keep arguing the details if you want but I don't feel the need to when we agree on the fundamental issue. I know you also agree that the experts know more than us, so no reason to puff air about that either. It's ok for online arguments to end like this.

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 1:41:55 PM
#489:


foolm0r0n posted...
That is what #letukrainestrikebacknolimits disagrees with.

We already have a Drax in these topics. We don't need two.

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NFUN
08/26/24 1:47:03 PM
#490:


Don't be a Lopen. Please. Don't decide unilaterally what the argument was about and don't ignore the issues the other participant had, and especially don't do that when you didn't even read through my arguments closely enough to see we agreed from the start. And don't defer any nuance to the experts when I know you don't trust the experts and you've already staked a position with zero nuance ("all escalation is bad")

I am very comfortable ending a discussion when a common understanding is reached, even if that understanding is that our viewpoints are irreconcilable, but this has been little better than debate-me-bro nonsense

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Xeybozn
08/26/24 1:48:50 PM
#491:


foolm0r0n posted...
No, to get you to admit that the US should use its power to restrict Ukraine's escalation of war.
Ukraine defending itself at all is an escalation of the war. Just think about it: wouldn't it all be over by now if Ukraine had just let Russia conquer them? We can argue over whether Ukraine should be allowed to bomb Russia, but don't act like it's all as simple as "war bad, never do war".

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 1:51:40 PM
#492:


NFUN posted...
but this has been little better than debate-me-bro nonsense

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/ef160a74.jpg

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 2:01:08 PM
#493:


NFUN posted...
Don't decide unilaterally what the argument was about
You decide then? You have yet to say what's missing in the argument, you've just complained about me ending it

Like do you want me to engage with these kinds of pile on posts? How stupid
Xeybozn posted...
Ukraine defending itself at all is an escalation of the war. Just think about it

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foolm0r0n
08/26/24 2:01:44 PM
#494:


Also Lopen has never ended an online argument in his entire life

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LightningStrikes
08/26/24 2:23:51 PM
#495:


How is Ukraine using weapons they already have to target airfields theyre already targetting an escalation

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NFUN
08/26/24 2:27:08 PM
#496:


foolm0r0n posted...
You decide then? You have yet to say what's missing in the argument, you've just complained about me ending it
We're both participants. We both get a say. What's missing is what you meant by

foolm0r0n posted...
cute but people are literally dying

so that a meaningful response could be made by you to... basically anything i've said the entire time

NFUN posted...
it'd be ukraine deciding whether or not to attack airfields; if the country thinks doing so would save more lives, they should. don't be like the fucking tankies you hate, broadly smearing an ideal over any situation and completely missing the point. you're dangerously close to arguing that ukraine should just surrender completely, and should've immediately

"I've yet to say what's missing"? The entire argument has been you attacking a misreading of my point and you ended it when I clarified it by quoting what I'd already said, when it started by me calling you out! None of your points I'd disagreed with were addressed at all whatsoever!

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NFUN
08/26/24 2:28:13 PM
#497:


foolm0r0n posted...
Also Lopen has never ended an online argument in his entire life
totally has. IIRC, he'll either pretend the other person actually agrees despite what they claim so he won, or claim that they backed themselves into an inescapable hole so he won

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kevwaffles
08/26/24 2:32:51 PM
#498:


Dibs on the next topic. As an experiment.

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Suprak_the_Stud
08/26/24 2:33:05 PM
#499:


Guys what the hell is happening in here.

Don't make me turn this topic around.

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SaveEstelle
08/26/24 2:33:55 PM
#500:


Exist in the context of what came before you.

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