Current Events > Transgender swimmer Lia Thomas out of Olympics after losing legal battle

(+) Yeah! (+)

Theres apparently an open category event but no one registered for it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

are there biological advantages for the opposite?

name_unknown posted...

It's swimming not football where muscle mass would help. Wrestling is the Olympic sport where one could argue birth sex matters and that was removed.

Even then with wrestling it's been common for a while now for girls to wrestle boys. Back in my day I knew of 1 girl that wrestled my entire 4 years. Now it's extremely common.

I remember the last time someone tried to claim they were concerned about biologically advantages I suggested doing classes based on objective measures such as muscles mass, or heart size or lung size or whatever they are worried about. Have classes like in a fighting sport. They of course were against this because it isn't actually about controlling for those advantages, just excluding trans people.

Surprised they made the right choice with this

toadfan64 posted...

Surprised they made the right choice with this

Tag checks out

toadfan64 posted...

Surprised they made the right choice with this

Living up to your tag, etc.

SauI_Goodman posted...

Even then with wrestling it's been common for a while now for girls to wrestle boys. Back in my day I knew of 1 girl that wrestled my entire 4 years. Now it's extremely common.

I also forget goes by weight class, it evens that out for matches.

TMOG posted...

Tag checks out

I'm honored

Arcanine2009 posted...

are there biological advantages for the opposite?

gymnastics, probably?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Thats Heavy D Forever youre talking too. He doesnt care about prejudicial discrimination or transphobia.

toadfan64 posted...

I'm honored

You really, really shouldn't be.

toadfan64 posted...

Surprised they made the right choice with this

No the fuck they didn't

Mr_Karate_II posted...

No the fuck they didn't

The women's weightlifting record was shattered by like 100 lbs by a trans woman. That's evidence enough that there are limits to this.

Compared to biological women, trans women have a larger heart, larger lung capacity, significantly larger stroke volume, and significantly higher blood oxygenation levels.

They also have larger limb length ratio, larger rib cage dimensions, increased bone density which promotes increased fulcrum power and resistance to trauma, and a larger bone structure in general which allows for larger muscles to be supported with training.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/

Ultimately, the former male physiology of transwoman athletes provides them with a physiological advantage over the cis-female athlete.

toadfan64 posted...

I'm honored

Not for very long.

Without knowing anything about swimming, I thought she wasn't good enough to compete at the Olympic level? When she first hit the news I remember seeing the graphics that she wasn't a top competitor even in the women's league.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

It's almost like the "biological advantage" isn't the real issue

So are people being allowed to promote transphobic bigotry on CE now? Why is post #65 still up?

KitKats posted...

So are people being allowed to promote transphobic bigotry on CE now?

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/44a82484.jpg

Yeah, transphobia has always been a crap shoot for if it gets modded or not. I suspect it depends on which mod views the report.

TMOG posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/44a82484.jpg

Lol

touch!

StealThisSheen posted...

Yeah, transphobia has always been a crap shoot for if it gets modded or not. I suspect it depends on which mod views the report.

This cannot be true. Fandom provides a fun, engaging environment that is also safe and inclusive to all. They would never allow problematic moderators to ignore obvious violations of the Fandom Code of Conduct.

BrohammedAli posted...

This cannot be true. Fandom provides a fun, engaging environment that is also safe and inclusive to all. They would never allow problematic moderators to ignore obvious violations of the Fandom Code of Conduct.

Especially when one of the only rules they bothered to list was "no transphobia."

Surely that wasn't some corporate bullshit, it couldn't be.

BrohammedAli posted...

This cannot be true. Fandom provides a fun, engaging environment that is also safe and inclusive to all. They would never allow problematic moderators to ignore obvious violations of the Fandom Code of Conduct.

And they definitely wouldn't announce their "strict" anti-transphobia regulations with a topic on a board that 99% of the user base wouldn't casually visit and give it second billing to the obviously far more important news of a hornyposting ban and CE's closing.

Blocklist is hungry, feed it transphobes

Well this sucks.

toadfan64 posted...

I'm honored

You misspelled "ashamed"

Sub_Tank posted...

You're so close to the answer, I'm honestly pretty impressed.

You could just tell the answer again, instead of beating around the bush. You weren't afraid to say it before.

Here, I'll remind you: you think that being trans is cheating which, for anyone keeping score at home, is deadass wrong. And transphobic.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8d10996c.jpg

toadfan64 posted...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/

Ultimately, the former male physiology of transwoman athletes provides them with a physiological advantage over the cis-female athlete.

But they also say stuff like this:

Anatomical sex differences in the brain appear during early life when the in utero and postnatal surges of testosterone masculinize the male brain [9,10]. Ascribing specific behaviors to these anatomical sex differences has been challenging [11] and may involve differences in cell morphology as well as the connections between brain networks [12,13,14,15,16]. For example, diffusion magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) shows increased intraconnectivity in males for regions of the brain attributed to perception-action coordination, auditory/visual spatial awareness and processing, cognitive processes and complex reasoning and control [16]. Females, on the other hand, show more interconnectivity in those regions of the brain attributed to memory, social cognition, and non-verbal reasoning. The sex-specific connectivity of these subnetworks may underlie the ability of males to show consistently higher levels of motor and visual spatial skills in addition to elevated sensory input from vision and proprioception [17,18,19,20].

Male brains and female brains be different? Okay... but wasn't there a study done using MRI or some other imaging solution that demonstrated that a trans person's brain more closely resembled the gender they identified as, rather than the gender they were assigned at birth?

That is, if a trans woman's brain more closely resembles a woman's brain, despite being AMAB, doesn't that discount these suppositions about differences in brain structure between genders?

I'm not a scientist, or someone who does peer reviews, but if I, a layman, can kick the tires on this car and find it wanting... shouldn't we be a little slower to accept the conclusion you quoted uncritically? Maybe kinda?

DnDer, I think youre being unfair.

Speaking as a transfemme individual, transitioning brings us so many ways to get ahead. After all, men are by far the least privileged demographic of any society and hold no power amongst our nations governments. Society has often elevated queer individuals into the upper strata of society, and transitioning in order to win in women sports makes logical sense. After all, the money we pay male athletes is a burden; why wouldnt I want to be someone competing at the highest levels while being paid less than a Walmart manager?

BrohammedAli posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/ec49a993.jpg

also there is no advantage

DrizztLink posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/ec49a993.jpg

I dont get this reference :(

BrohammedAli posted...

I dont get this reference :(

"They had us in the first half, not gonna lie"

toadfan64 posted...

Surprised they made the right choice with this

x2

JOSGABRIEL posted...

x2

Tagged

This was absolutely the wrong decision. Pretty clear at this point that no amount of research or studies are going to influence these decisions, otherwise these bans on trans women competing wouldn't keep happening. Can't let facts get in the way of a narrative though

It just needs an international rule set, based on the sport.

The legal battle in this case was a farce too and completly useless.

Instead of ruling in favor or against the rules for transwomen at all (as in, making the freaking legal decision based on fact they are supposed to do), they just chicken out and went "Sorry, you first have to deal with the US team".

In Germany, there will be soon the possibilty to simply change your legal gender however they want. You make a request for it, and some time later (I think it was 3 months?) they just go "Are you still sure?" and that's the whole process.

Yet they also chicken out as soon as it is about "protected spaces" and sports, because it doesn't specify anything for that at all. Just saying that the decision is made by the organizer.

thronedfire2 posted...

gymnastics, probably?

Gymnastics is a bad choice. Women and men have different categories and they dont compete in the same events.

There are also some events the different sexes do better / worse at because of how they compliment certain builds. I seem to recall Men were worse on the beam and women worse at the pommel horse / p-bars.

A lot of this is down skeletal frames and is down to differences in the centre of gravity rather than pure muscle mass. For example the womens p-bars are often off set asymmetrically to compensate for this and require completely different skillsets to perform on. Theres a good thread here that go into more details than I could ever do.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Gymnastics/s/J5OoGSvili

The bans in this topic are weird. It's not transphobic to think that someone who was another gender before has residual physical advantages over those who were born as women in a physical contest.

SunburnCostanza posted...

The bans in this topic are weird. It's not transphobic to think that someone who was another gender before has residual physical advantages over those who were born as women in a physical contest.

It is when you continue to repeat it in the face of medical evidence to the contrary.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


The most ridiculous part to me has always been how the transphobes talking about "the science" behind the subject are the same people who said scientists didn't know what it was talking about in regards to climate change because fossil fuel companies who knew they were a major contributing factor towards global warming since the 1970s paid Republican politicians to call it a hoax and indoctrinate right-wingers into this anti-science pro-climate change position.

KitKats posted...

So are people being allowed to promote transphobic bigotry on CE now? Why is post #65 still up?

I'll give GFAQs credit in that they're actually pretty good at harshly modding anti-trans bigotry. The posts may stay up for longer than they should, however every trans threads sees bigots putting themselves into purgatory at minimum, and this one is no exception (including the post you were questioning).

And now with the new rules they're permanently removing themselves from the board with a purg unless they ask DToast nicely to return.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I don't really agree, I think when you've had additional muscle and bone development for years and then scale it back the onus is on you to prove you're biologically similar enough to be fair in an elite sport. But either way studies do back this up:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/

One about heart and lung capacity as well:

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/trans-womens-heart-lung-capacity-and-strength-exceed-cis-peers-even-after-years-of-hormone-therapy

The most prevalent argument on the other side seems to be that both genders have outliers physically (like Michael Phelps being a fish man basically), but I don't find this to be that strong of an argument. It doesn't seem fair that every time a really good athlete comes in that has a biological advantage due to transitioning that they have a much higher chance of becoming the new Shaqs or Michael Phelps of their sports compared to all of their competitors.

Sorry about your alt.

No wait, the other thing.