Current Events > Transgender swimmer Lia Thomas out of Olympics after losing legal battle

(+) Yeah! (+)

SunburnCostanza posted...

I don't really agree, I think when you've had additional muscle and bone development for years and then scale it back the onus is on you to prove you're biologically similar enough to be fair in an elite sport. But either way studies do back this up:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9331831/

One about heart and lung capacity as well:

https://www.scimex.org/newsfeed/trans-womens-heart-lung-capacity-and-strength-exceed-cis-peers-even-after-years-of-hormone-therapy

The most prevalent argument on the other side seems to be that both genders have outliers physically (like Michael Phelps being a fish man basically), but I don't find this to be that strong of an argument. It doesn't seem fair that every time a really good athlete comes in that has a biological advantage due to transitioning that they have a much higher chance of becoming the new Shaqs or Michael Phelps of their sports compared to all of their competitors.

so you agree that trans people shouldn't be forced to wait until 18 to start transitioning?

SunburnCostanza posted...

It doesn't seem fair that every time a really good athlete comes in that has a biological advantage due to transitioning that they have a much higher chance of becoming the new Shaqs or Michael Phelps of their sports compared to all of their competitors.

Tans athletes aren't sweeping medal podiums when they're allowed to compete. That data alone seems to indicate that trans people aren't the record-breaking, field-dominating monsters you're implying, even with the studies you presented.

Yourr fear is that it's not going to be fair and that what you think of as "real" women won't win anymore, but... that's just not happening.

SunburnCostanza posted...

the onus is on you to prove you're biologically similar enough to be fair in an elite sport.

I think places like the IOC have standards and practices in place to do just that, and trans people have been allowed to compete for years without a second thought until recently.

This is how conversations with people like you usually end up going, in the end:

"When you meet these benchmarks and prove you eliminated that 'natural advantage,' it's fair for you to compete."
<meets benchmarks>
"Not like that."

thronedfire2 posted...

so you agree that trans people shouldn't be forced to wait until 18 to start transitioning?

Until 18? Nah I think earlier is probably fine. I have trouble thinking about what age would be okay though before like 16. Ideally someone with genuine gender dysphoria could transition before puberty. But I also think those early ages are super impressionable and someone could be changing their body dramatically when they really hadn't thought it through as a child or young teen. I don't have a good answer for you on this one.

SunburnCostanza posted...

Until 18? Nah I think earlier is probably fine. I have trouble thinking about what age would be okay though before like 16. Ideally someone with genuine gender dysphoria could transition before puberty. But I also think those early ages are super impressionable and someone could be changing their body dramatically when they really hadn't thought it through as a child or young teen. I don't have a good answer for you on this one.

well most of the states that want to ban gender transitions before 18 or 21 are perfectly fine with 14 and 16 year olds getting married and being forced to have children

pretty much everything that comes with HRT's reversible fwiw

SunburnCostanza posted...

But I also think those early ages are super impressionable and someone could be changing their body dramatically when they really hadn't thought it through as a child or young teen.

No actual doctor will transition someone during those years, is my understanding. The prescription would be puberty blockers and social transition. Surgical intervention is not normally considered an option during the time frame you're suggesting someone "impressionable" is going to make "dramatic changes" to their body.

Watched Ledecky absolutely destroy everyone else in the 1500 freestyle. Think she won by like 20 seconds, which is absolutely insane.

Silly how they only just introduced that to the Olympics last games. She'd probably have like 3 gold medals in that going into this year. She holds the record for the top 19 runs in that event. Pretty nuts.

thronedfire2 posted...

well most of the states that want to ban gender transitions before 18 or 21 are perfectly fine with 14 and 16 year olds getting married and being forced to have children

Not just forced to have children at that age, but have their rapists' children.

At least 10 of them.

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/a-review-of-exceptions-in-state [link break] -abortions-bans-implications-for-the-provision-of-abortion-services/

This topic is like a bug zapper for transphobes.