Current Events > How did Dooku easily beat Obi-Wan but lost to Anakin,but Obi-wan later defeated

(+) Yeah! (+)

an even stronger Anakin/Vader.

Anakin > Dooku > Obi-Wan > Anakin (Vader)

???

Zenkai boost for Obi Wan

something something high ground

The high ground is just that powerful.

even if it was the high ground, how did Obi Wan las a lot longer than Dooku up until then

Different fighting styles

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


Obi Wan intentionally let Vader defeat him.

There's different fighting forms they have that have strengths and weaknesses, with certain styles being able to counter certain other ones.

I'm not knowledgeable about what their styles are, but maybe it was a case of their styles countering each other's.

I mean, to be fair, Obi-Wan is Anakin's master. They fought against each other countless times in practice and knew each other (fighting wise) like the back of their hand.

Whereas Dooku was recognized as the greatest duelist of his time, with a lightsaber specifically designed for dueling.

There's also the external factors of Dooku being well rested prior to the AotC duel while Obi-Wan and Anakin (in particular) had just escaped a battle for their lives.

Also iirc in the Episode 3 novel (no longer canon but can still give some perspective of what George approved/might have been thinking), Dooku was supposed to take it somewhat easy on the two and 'lose'. Up until he was on his knees with both blades at his neck, he thought it was all part of Sidious' plan. Then when Sidious said to 'Kill him now', he realized how played he'd been

Styles make fights.

Its not real

Star Wars prequels and sequels are just fan fiction.

Obi Wan trained Anakin and knew his fighting style and all his tricks. Dooku did not.

It makes sense that why Obi Wan could defeat Anakin but not Dooku.

https://youtu.be/L4_zFYnnn2Y?si=Z7_89jI0iuhRXqKA

wackyteen posted...

Also iirc in the Episode 3 novel (no longer canon but can still give some perspective of what George approved/might have been thinking), Dooku was supposed to take it somewhat easy on the two and 'lose'. Up until he was on his knees with both blades at his neck, he thought it was all part of Sidious' plan. Then when Sidious said to 'Kill him now', he realized how played he'd been

Yup, in the novel the "plan" was for Dooku to throw the fight and let himself get captured. He thought he was retiring from the Sith life.

ItsNotA2Mer posted...

Obi Wan intentionally let Vader defeat him.

yeah but do you think an aged Obi Wan would be able to defeat Vader? Vader was crippled purposely by Palpatine but I feel like he'd have beaten Obi Wan even if he didn't throw the fight.

anakin only beat dooku because plot required it. in-universe dooku was supposed to be the greatest duelist in recent history/the current era.

plot

Are the lightsaber styles still a thing in canon? If so, there were style differences that weighed in favor or against each of them in their respective fights.

BlackOmnimon posted...

an even stronger Anakin/Vader.

Anakin > Dooku > Obi-Wan > Anakin (Vader)

???

Anakin and Obi-wa obviously trained and got better after their last fight with Dooku. Remember Anakin was hyped up to be special. When Anakin was joining the dark side, Obj Wan was taking advance of Anakin inexperience with it .

This isnt really a plot hole.

Anakin's overconfidence/arrogance was the reason he lost to Obi-Wan in Episode 3. Both men knew each other's lightsaber forms inside and out. It was just a matter of who blundered first. Anakin for overconfident and tried to do to Obi Wan did to defeat Darth Maul. It didn't work.

JumpstyIe posted...

anakin only beat dooku because plot required it. in-universe dooku was supposed to be the greatest duelist in recent history/the current era.

Keep in mind Anakin is the chosen one and going by the Clone Wars show, Anakin kept gaining ground on Dooku every time Anakin fought him. Add in other factors such as...
1. Anakin drawing on the power of the dark side, 2. Dooku's own arrogance.
3. Dooku being really old by the point of Episode 3.
4. Anakin's primary lightsaber form Djem-so being a counter of sorts to Dooku's primary lightsaber form Makashi (former is much better at keeping up momentum than the latter).

...And it isn't a surprise Anakin won that duel.

As for why Obi-Wan did so poorly against Dooku in both Episodes II and III, Dooku is familiar with both of the lightsaber forms Obi-Wan used, being Ataru in Episode 2 and Soresu in Episode 3. Makashi is a counter of sort to the latter, which helps explain that loss. As for the former, Obi-Wan was much less experienced then.

Because every duel is different.

And because "power levels" are dumb.

Sometimes the person with worse skills win, like in sports there are upsets.

Maybe it is a case that nine times out ten Anakin beats Obi Wan, but that duel where it mattered was the exception.

wackyteen posted...

I mean, to be fair, Obi-Wan is Anakin's master. They fought against each other countless times in practice and knew each other (fighting wise) like the back of their hand.

Whereas Dooku was recognized as the greatest duelist of his time, with a lightsaber specifically designed for dueling.

There's also the external factors of Dooku being well rested prior to the AotC duel while Obi-Wan and Anakin (in particular) had just escaped a battle for their lives.

Also iirc in the Episode 3 novel (no longer canon but can still give some perspective of what George approved/might have been thinking), Dooku was supposed to take it somewhat easy on the two and 'lose'. Up until he was on his knees with both blades at his neck, he thought it was all part of Sidious' plan. Then when Sidious said to 'Kill him now', he realized how played he'd been

This makes the most sense to me.

@BlackOmnimon Originally, Anakin was supposed to fight Dooku all by himself in Revenge of the Sith. Obi-Wan was added to the fight later in the film's development.
https://youtu.be/RXuLxm7Kngo?si=BE4zUAJZAOoAlFTn
That explains why Obi-Wan feels so unnecessary and out of place in the fight. Jobbing to Dooku for a second time just makes him look pathetic. I always felt Anakin and Obi-Wan should have fought Dooku together at the end of Attack of the Clones (a la Qui Gon and Obi Wan vs. Darth Maul at the end of Phantom Menace). Anakin should have fought and killed Dooku all by himself in Revenge of the Sith as originally planned. The story would have made more sense, too, because when you look at how easily Dooku beat Obi-Wan and how easily Anakin beat Dooku after getting angry, there's no real reason Anakin should have lost to Obi-Wan.