Board 8 > Community Mafia Topic 11 - Ancient B8 Mafia History (2009-2011)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Meow1000 posted...

I don't like how Red went from agreeing with me that Ben was scum to trying to coax Peaf into lynching me early in the day.

Are we really going to ignore context of ben claiming bp at the time.

PeaceFrog posted...

I totally admit to maybe being dumb, professor, but i don't remember red suggesting that you should be on the chopping block. Did i miss the assigned reading for today's class?

Red straight up told you to lynch me if you believed Ben

Leafeon13N posted...

Are we really going to ignore context of ben claiming bp at the time.

Doesn't change the point that you don't make that post if you and Peaf are both scum.

Meow1000 posted...

Red straight up told you to lynch me if you believed Ben

i could have sworn this was to kirby btw. Cause hwas the one that believed ben wholeheartedly and that would have created a mass of protection that needed to be solved.

Not that it wasn't straight up true to anyone that thought that. If ben is BP having additional protection is probably too much.

Considering it was getting him called BP Indy he might've just wanted to walk it back.

Ben's claim does have some value because it allows MZero and Kirby to coordinate, even if in most cases it does little to nothing and has potential to be manipulated to be destructively anti town. SBell had a "town power role" that could completely destroy the town, so it is possible Ben has one too.

I have to admit though I've been curious if Lea would've actually factored in that SBell's role was basically scum power in disguise into the setup.

undefined posted... Blade

I don't like how Red went from agreeing with me that Ben was scum to trying to coax Peaf into lynching me early in the day.

Leafeon13N posted...

Are we really going to ignore context of ben claiming bp at the time.

No I thought Blade was talking about day 3. And yes, you did seem to drop this entirely

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/b32ae272.png

PunishedBen posted...

No I thought Blade was talking about day 3. And yes, you did seem to drop this entirely

We had a glut of information gain.

Meow1000 posted...

I have to admit though I've been curious if Lea would've actually factored in that SBell's role was basically scum power in disguise into the setup.

You keep saying that, and I know that you know there's more nuance to it than just that. But SBell's role in and of itself purely pro-town. It's the fact that Wallz' role exists that makes SBell's a double-edged sword. But once Wallz is out of the picture? SBell's role becomes very strong.

Kirby321 posted...

You keep saying that, and I know that you know there's more nuance to it than just that. But SBell's role in and of itself purely pro-town. It's the fact that Wallz' role exists that makes SBell's a double-edged sword. But once Wallz is out of the picture? SBell's role becomes very strong.

sbell's role was a trap and basically guaranteed 1 mislynch at least.

red13n posted...

sbell's role was a trap and basically guaranteed 1 mislynch at least.

If SBell wasn't killed last night, he'd be able to reveal who killed Isquen N2. None of the claimed town powers visited Isquen N2, so the only person who visited would've been his killer. There aren't any traps in that role that couldn't have also been sprung by a generic Watcher.

I mean, this doesn't even matter at all to solve the game. I just feel bad for SBell and Lea that people keep mislabeling such a strong role as a trap or scum-favored when it's really just a consequence of this specific setup where Wallz' role is super powerful and hard counters SBell's.

red13n posted...

sbell's role was a trap and basically guaranteed 1 mislynch at least.

That assumes Wallz was going to use the movement Frame every night instead of the guilty Frame though, right? Hard to know what they would prefer, but they wouldn't know if they would benefit more from making someone scan guilty or making someone appear to visit a target. If they knew what town roles existed then sure, they would use the movement Frame every single time because every night kill would make SBells information worse. I think it's more fair to say that SBells role had the potential to be anti-town, but was not 100% guaranteed to be so.

ninja'd by kirby lol

But yeah, in a situation where wallz dies before using his ability then SBell's information finds the killer every time or at least narrows it down perfectly.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

That assumes Wallz was going to use the movement Frame every night instead of the guilty Frame though, right? Hard to know what they would prefer, but they wouldn't know if they would benefit more from making someone scan guilty or making someone appear to visit a target. If they knew what town roles existed then sure, they would use the movement Frame every single time because every night kill would make SBells information worse. I think it's more fair to say that SBells role had the potential to be anti-town, but was not 100% guaranteed to be so.

its not hard to know what they would prefer. You movement frame every time barring some weird situational frame.

red13n posted...

its not hard to know what they would prefer. You movement frame every time barring some weird situational frame.

And what if the game didn't have a watcher or a tracker and the movement frame was a complete trap? I think on average movement frame sounds better than guilty frame, but it's still an assumption to believe it's the only one that wallz would use. It's also a complete moot point because we know he didn't get to use anything

Forceful_Dragon posted...

ninja'd by kirby lol

But yeah, in a situation where wallz dies before using his ability then SBell's information finds the killer every time or at least narrows it down perfectly.

In every other situation but that, which is actually far more likely. SBell gets in a trap where he has bad info every night.

Hes going to cause a mislynch and very possible end up a mislynch himself.

In any case, we don't even know what Ctes' role is. Could be the most busted thing in the game for all we know. It's too early to call town weak and make assumptions about the scum team based off that. Assume 2-3 scum regardless of what the roles are/could be, just to be conservative.

To talk about IGCD. I dont think he makes that claim as scum unless its his actual power anyway. And even then he would know how suspicious it could look when the voteblocker does not target him

Rereading Red myself now and comparing that to what I see in Peafs ISO
And there are instances where I feel like Peaf is either leaving out minor things or unwilling to see why Red could be doing some posts as town.
But I would be a lot more forgiving of Red if he himself mentioned such counters.

I also agree that I cant see MI and Red as scum together with the way day1 developed.
Red had his vote on MI and while he talked about Wallz and Knightz as if he considered moving his vote to one of them, he in the end was not around to do anything but keep his vote on MI.

I cannot see scumRed vote scumMI in the first place when he could have just stuck on Kirby.

I also think Reds "Death flipflop" is not as bad as it looks. Though I would like to ask him why he called me 'fine' day1. If he remembers that.

Then again nobody seems to be talking about that part of Reds play anymore anyway.

And basically while I do think Red comes off as waffly on Wallz and Knightz, as Peaf stated. I also simply see this as something townRed could suffer from due to not actually being caught up.

PeaceFrog posted...

pushed day 3 to not be a simple railroad on corrik even at risk to myself

pushed is a strong word

##Vote: Peaf

red is way too mad on page 4 and it feels fake

MZero posted...

red is way too mad on page 4 and it feels fake

lol mzero.

htaeD posted...

I also think Reds "Death flipflop" is not as bad as it looks. Though I would like to ask him why he called me 'fine' day1. If he remembers that.

I dont actually remember that one where was it.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Yes I would like a post from red that doesn't have anything to do with FD

red13n posted...

Death is probably fine.

Topic 4, page 7

htaeD posted...

Topic 4, page 7

Fuck I'm trying to figure out what I had because usually I commit posts like that to memory or make at least a small note and I have no fucking clue.

I think I said some stuff to you earlier in the day and it might have been related to that. But day 1 is long.

red13n posted...

lol mzero.

This is a much better response!

5(maybe 4, probably not) scum
-2 broken roles
-godfather?
-??? (Kidnapper/janitor, vote theft, ???)

4-5 vanilla expected, 6 unlikely.
4 vanillas claimed, 2 dead

doc, jk, cop (Hinted at by doppel)
broken scanner (broken?)
^-open question, with blade and ulti claiming power so long ago, why is this group not shot into

IGCD with hammerer(Still say hes 3P if anyone), potentially confirmable
chang confirmable
mzero confirmable
fd confirmable
ben confirmable
^---this feels like too many. None are alignment confirming and I would expect scum to have 1 non-alignment confirming role.

Ctes mystery ->if not something eye opening, murder.

Lopen leaves vanillas as an open question. Still think the conclusion from all this is find 1 scum in vanilla, find liar in confirmables, then move from there.

red13n posted...

I dont actually remember that one where was it.

Not to be too salty but if you read my posts instead of immediately discounting them, we could have discussed this back on Sunday and maybe you'd have remembered then.

MZero posted...

pushed is a strong word

Fair. "Suggested" then. Either way you're missing the point - scum is more likely to be content to let a day languish and keep the lynch centered on one town member, rather than opening up the possibilities beyond that scope.

red13n posted...

Still think the conclusion from all this is find 1 scum in vanilla, find liar in confirmables, then move from there.

We are in agreement!

Yeah you did ask me if 'I was mad to be rolling scum again'
Which I didnt take as a serious accusation at the time I think
But calling me fine the next topic was still interesting.

PeaceFrog posted...

Not to be too salty but if you read my posts instead of immediately discounting them, we could have discussed this back on Sunday and maybe you'd have remembered then.

You posted a lot of crap. I couldn't respond to all of it.

htaeD posted...

Yeah you did ask me if 'I was mad to be rolling scum again'
Which I didnt take as a serious accusation at the time I think
But calling me fine the next topic was still interesting.

Probably had to do with that. It wasn't actually serious btw(I could turn it into serious if i wanted), I was reaction fishing.

PeaceFrog posted...

Fair. "Suggested" then. Either way you're missing the point - scum is more likely to be content to let a day languish and keep the lynch centered on one town member, rather than opening up the possibilities beyond that scope.

True, but I think you were content to let that happened and were just faking it to appear towny, because when the chips were on the table and red was gaining momentum you just kind of let it default back to Corrik

MZero posted...

True, but I think you were content to let that happened and were just faking it to appear towny, because when the chips were on the table and red was gaining momentum you just kind of let it default back to Corrik

Red being too busy respond to all my "crap" gets a pass over multiple game days, but me being too busy over a course of 24 hours to do a detailed iso on mobile? Unacceptable.

I can see why you think it looks scummy in a vacuum but my guy we are on topic 11 here. If you're looking at only one data point then you are either as lazy as i was on day 3, or you're scum.

I responded to a fair bit of your crap.

I think you lumped a lot of it together and discounted it, which honestly is fine. I went a little overboard with it.

I'm just being snarky about the thing that Death pointed out earlier - that was included in my summaries. I explicitly remember being weirded out by you saying "Fine" on my reread.

Worth noting that MZero has not hit anyone to confirm him yet.

I do trust him still, I don't think Taco set up this elaborate bluff.

PeaceFrog posted...

Red being too busy respond to all my "crap" gets a pass over multiple game days, but me being too busy over a course of 24 hours to do a detailed iso on mobile? Unacceptable.

I can see why you think it looks scummy in a vacuum but my guy we are on topic 11 here. If you're looking at only one data point then you are either as lazy as i was on day 3, or you're scum.

I don't see why you needed to do a detailed ISO. I sure as heck didn't. It's not like we were specialing him, there were like 12+ hours left in the day. Just apply some pressure and get people talking. I don't get why you're acting like you needed an iron clad argument when your goal was supposedly to keep the day from stagnating

I see some irony in my first sentence saying it's "Fine" but that's regarding an action, not an entire read on a player who hadn't really been doing a whole bunch at that time in t3/t4.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Worth noting that MZero has not hit anyone to confirm him yet.

I do trust him still, I don't think Taco set up this elaborate bluff.

don't worry I'm targeting Ulti tonight

jk

also I'm a little surprised I haven't gotten more heat for visiting the guy who died last night

...and also conveniently forgot to act when there was no night kill N1

Well it's not like as scum the scum team would have let you forget to kill someone

MZero posted...

I don't see why you needed to do a detailed ISO. I sure as heck didn't. It's not like we were specialing him, there were like 12+ hours left in the day. Just apply some pressure and get people talking. I don't get why you're acting like you needed an iron clad argument when your goal was supposedly to keep the day from stagnating

With how talented red is at shrugging off votes, i didn't want mine to just be "Peaf has bad gut and no argument". In retrospect it was wrong but that's where my head was at.

TotallyNotMI posted...

Well it's not like as scum the scum team would have let you forget to kill someone

yeah that one is only suspicious if the night kill was replaced by the day janitor

That would be super funny because it would have meant that kirby just happened to land on scum n1 and they got ridiculously unlucky.

PeaceFrog posted...

With how talented red is at shrugging off votes, i didn't want mine to just be "Peaf has bad gut and no argument". In retrospect it was wrong but that's where my head was at.

This feels very timid for you but I could be wrong I guess

Mzero needs to target Ben or FD I guess