Current Events > Some1 turned the Biden Palestine vote argument into the trolley problem 4 visual

(+) Yeah! (+)

So has there been any genuine, non-troll justification as to why these people think Trump winning will result in such a better outcome for Palestine that they have to vote for him? Biden has to earn my vote isnt a good enough reason to support Trump by not voting Biden

But. What. If. Biden. Does. Not. Do. Better?

Would Trump winning help anyone? Which is the least harmful choice in that election?

Refer to my question. What will trump do that's better?

I've never said Trump winning would be preferable, nor that he would be better for Palestine.

So if Trump is not better for Palestine, why do you defend a Trump supporter for refusing to answer this question?

Who has defended trump in this topic?

So you can answer an easy question about how things will be if he is the president right?

So how much would you pay FortuneCookie to vote for Biden?

So you can answer an easy question about how things will be if he is the president right?

Your question is bullshit. No one thinks trump would do better, which is why they're pressuring biden to do better

that is not an answer

that is you unable to answer

The answer is no.

Their angle is too "both sides the same, so it doesn't matter who wins 2024." With the sole purpose to convert as many swing and left leaning voters as they can to not vote.

They don't actually care about abortion, LGBT rights, Muslims, or Palestinians beyond virtue signalling they do.

The more they can convert, the better Trumps odds. Who is objectively worse for even just the people they virtue signal to care about. Just here in the US alone, life for Palestinians and Muslims would be worse under Trump. Hence why they always pivot away from the subject as much as possible.

This is just a straight up lie. Does it make you feel better to imagine the people that disagree with you as such villains?

Are we single issue children who don't understand that Biden has no choice but to support genocide? Or are we virtue signaling wannabees who pretend we care about Palestinians, but actually don't? Or are we knowing propaganda agents who are in it to get Trump elected? We can't be all three.

You're just spewing whatever invective you need yourself and others to believe to get your preferred political outcome and to protect your self image as a good person despite urging people to vote without regard to a current genocide.

You can't acknowledge that some people are assessing the same facts, the same reality, and coming to different moral and tactical conclusions. You can't look genocide in the face at any point because it would shatter what you think of yourself.

All Biden had to do was give the same statements Bernie just gave, cut off funding to Israel, and pressure for a ceasefire. The only valid thing to do electorally and morally is to do everything in your power to make that happen before the election because lives are on the line. But instead, you want absolute silence and unconditional support for the unsupportable.

Does it make you feel better to imagine the people that disagree with you as such villains?

Are we single issue children who don't understand that Biden has no choice but to support genocide? Or are we virtue signaling wannabees who pretend we care about Palestinians, but actually don't? Or are we knowing propaganda agents who are in it to get Trump elected? We can't be all three.

It's not a straight up lie.

There are literally people in this topic who literally "both sides the same" Biden and Trump. One user even went far as to heavily imply other major issues such as abortion is Bidens fault to double down on his point that things would be no better under Biden instead of Trump.

It's also dishonest there isnt "single issue children" (your characterization, not mine) here. You are aware there are those here who consistently bring up why not voting in 2024 in November is something they won't be doing because of Palestine. This topic is literally about those who are literally threatening they will not vote, and the dishonest discussion that there isn't those who are dead serious about it, over Palestine.

Which again, says they don't care about other major issues like abortion, student debt, LGBT and more. Even Muslim actually inside the US would have it worse.

It's not a meme

Your assertion is that we don't care about Palestinians, we're virtue signaling, and we want Trump to win. You have no proof of that at all and you can't defend that idea.

It's not an assertion. You just conveniently ignore the literal users who have a history of saying "both candidates are the same", "it doesn't matter which candidate wins" and happily promote voters staying home in roundabout ways.

We have literal users who are doing that and this has been pointed out in over several topics. Like always when pointed out, you conveniently have selective reading its happening.

This isn't the first time this has been discussed on this board, and the usual are well knows by now on making this a single issue vote.

Lastly they most definitely are virtue signalling based on all the reasons already laid out multiple times in multiple topics. The ones happily promoting left leaning voters to not vote, are objectively helping Trump. There's no dodging that. Anyone willing to not vote, telling others to note vote, or constantly spreading the great word why you may not vote, is indeed virtue signalling. As such an act is in the long run hurting the people they claim to care about far more. That includes, LGBT, abortion/women's rights, and so much more. Including their one issue cause, Palestinians and Muslims as their pro protest non vote hurts those Muslims and Palestinians here in the United States too.

So you're going to just stick to your party line then. You won't acknowledge what I'm actually saying, you refuse to grapple with what a reality that makes you uncomfortable or that you don't understand, you'll redefine words to mean what you want/need them to mean.

That's very disappointing and I hope actual Democratic strategists are better than you. It doesn't seem like it though, judging by the establishment responses I've seen lately. I'll continue to hope the people with their heads on straight, with moral courage, can convince those in power to change their ways before it's too late and that this genocide agnostic, dissent crushing stance doesn't permanently poison the reputation of the Democratic party among young people.

Literally nothing. It's a stupid question and shows you did not bother to read past the first sentence of the post you replied to, because the second sentence was:

Stop trolling about genocide.

Lastly they most definitely are virtue signalling based on all the reasons already laid out multiple times in multiple topics.

And that "their assertion is that a genocide is indeed occurring. They have no proof of that at all and they can't defend that idea."

Exhibit A where you conveniently dance around things to virtue signal on one issue.

Learn another phrase man. Goddamn. I'm starting to believe you're writing these posts with ChatGPT that's overusing that word like it does with the word "delve."

It's a sign of a small mind that you can't give your opponents even the courtesy of accepting that they actually believe what they say believe. In your mind it has to be a plot or an act.

What did I sidestep that you want me to address?

Well a lot of people aren't okay with the status quo and they're doing what they can do voice that, whether that's protesting, boycotting, occupying, organizing labor actions, or yes, threatening to withhold votes. That's all different from actually withholding votes or telling people to vote for Trump.

Learn another phrase man. Goddamn. I'm starting to believe you're writing these posts with ChatGPT that's overusing that word like it does with the word "delve."

Nah, I'll still be calling a spade a spade.

Believing what they believe doesn't change what it is.

I think right wingers love America like they claim they do in their twisted way. That doesn't change the love for a piece of cloth and song over the actual vets is also something I'd call, virtue signalling.

Those people believing in what they believe is irrelevant.

Although to be clear, those claiming to believe what they believe also tends to breed bad faith actors in thr mix as well.

"You just conveniently ignore the literal users who have a history of saying "both candidates are the same", "it doesn't matter which candidate wins" and happily promote voters staying home in roundabout ways.

We have literal users who are doing that and this has been pointed out in over several topics. Like always when pointed out, you conveniently have selective reading its happening.

This isn't the first time this has been discussed on this board, and the usual are well knows by now on making this a single issue vote."
Straight from a post or 2 ago. This is not the first time those people have been pointed out to you. Like always, you selectively ignore them and claim there isn't people here who, "claim both sides are the same, and it doesn't matter who wins 2024", and you ignore the user's who happily float/defend/promote not voting in 2024.

Biden or Trump is going to win. This is an inescapable reality. The ones happily promoting left leaning voters to not vote, are objectively helping Trump. There's no dodging that. Anyone willing to not vote, telling others to note vote, or constantly spreading the great word why you may not vote, is indeed virtue signalling. As such an act is in the long run hurting the people they claim to care about far more. That includes, LGBT, abortion/women's rights, and so much more. Including their one issue cause, Palestinians and Muslims as their pro protest non vote hurts those Muslims and Palestinians here in the United States too. So yes, it's virtue signalling to ignore said reality that is inescapable to say or promote or defend, "don't vote" if you lean left, and risk fucking over groups of people even harder if Trump wins.

Again, there are users on this board who literally flirt/defend/promote left leaning voters and swing voters to stay home because of Palestine. Essentially the one issue voters angle. You just conveniently ignore them every topic as this has been pointed out before.

There's more than one issue on the table that affects even the people you claim to care about. More issues that affects even Muslims and Palestinians here in the United States. But you ignore that, for clear reasons. So your "moral courage" angle is bs.

This is hilariously hypocritical coming from you. You and your verbose vanity.

Some of us live in the real world where we can't risk a Trump win and in so doing don't like it when people pay lip service to fascists.

In fact, let's just cut to the chase. I want you to tell me that you're okay with a fascist takeover of the US because of how much you care about Gaza. Tell me you're complicit the robbing of women's, minorities, and LGBT rights because of Israel's genocide of Gaza.

Save us all the trouble.

There's nothing verbose about my posts. I'm not posting walls. You just seem to want to read a Democratic fundraising email.

No one is paying lip service to a fascist. We're criticizing a genocide and want it to stop

You simply have to twist that into something evil so you don't have to look yourself in the mirror and question what you support.

I already told you yesterday that I want a Biden win and an end to the genocide. I want equality and safety for all people everywhere.

We went back and forth on this just yesterday, and yet you're already reverting to your "say the thing so I can dismiss you outright and don't have to address that creeping feeling of dread" stance.

Things are different this time. Let's not pretend this is just business as usual in Gaza.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/70dd38c0.jpg

Picture is already 2 months old, so add a few thousand deaths.

Boy, that chart looks terrible. But I have to ask, is there a reason there is no information for 2010-2013 and 2015-2022? Because it seems to me like they cherry picked those dates to get a low number to make the current atrocities look even worse by comparison.

Boy, that chart looks terrible. But I have to ask, is there a reason there is no information for 2010-2013 and 2015-2022? Because it seems to me like they cherry picked those dates to get a low number to make the current atrocities look even worse by comparison.

No I just want people to be honest. Something some on this board seem to struggle with, it seems. It's also not about the democratic party. If the "Rent is Too Damn High" party was the only one that could prevent the fascist rise, I'd vote for them.

So do I, but I show that by criticizing people that claim they will abstain. You only show up to piss on people with a modicum of pragmatism. You stop the genocide by pressuring Biden. Not by punishing every non white non religious person by letting Trump win.

I'm not twisting anything. What don't you understand about the US electoral college? One candidate wins and the other loses. You know what's on the line if Biden loses so why pretend like you don't?

Great! So do I. That means you do understand the point and are just here sitting on your high horse talking down to people like me because I understand how elections work.

And hey! You addressed it! Nice! You don't want Trump to win so you'll be voting Blue in November. That's all I care about. I don't give a fuck what you say about Biden.

The years pictured are times when things particularly flared up. They'd be among the highest, not lowest, in recent years.

How's that been working out for you? Have you convinced anyone that way?

You accuse me of vanity and then say shit like this? It's absurd.

You only see what you want to see, you think repeating the same message louder and with more condescension will somehow make people see the error of their ways.

I take you didn't read my post from the last topic. It's not my job to coddle idiots that "need to be swayed" to vote against fascism. If people need their vote "earned" to vote against fascism, then they weren't going to vote for it anyway. You can't seem to wrap around that I haven't ever tried to convince anyone of anything. I'm merely admonishing apathy that has already ruined lives through conservative pull.

What's absurd is acting like there's a choice between Trump and Biden. Don't see you criticizing them, though. Hmm. Wonder why that is?

I see that Trump winning is the end of actual democracy. Everything I say is from that perspective. I'm sorry you don't like it.

Anyone who is not already completely on the exact same unpopular wavelength that you are is a lost cause, an idiot, unworthy of breath? The Democratic Party would have already collapsed if most thought like you. It's like 2016 never happened.

I do criticize anyone who says they're the same or who says Trump is better

I'm coming from the same perspective, you seem to have gotten the wrong message about what actions flow from that reality though.

Why do you people keep trying to shift the conversation? Genocide is wrong. It doesn't matter who is supporting it, supporting genocide is wrong.

That isnt what I asked

Nobody is saying that trump winning would result in a better outcome for Palestinians. Your question is based on a false premise in the first place.

Yes you people are. Saying to abstain from voting to put pressure on Biden means you are complicit with what Trump wants for Palestine, and women and minorities in America. Calling it a false premise is spreading misinformation

"You people"? Where did I tell anyone to abstain from voting? By the way, if biden is afraid of people not voting for him because of this, there's a very easy solution and as a bonus (more like the main benefit), he'd stop a genocide. Of course, YOU PEOPLE refuse to accept that biden has any agency and that he must support genocide for some reason.

"You people"? Where did I tell anyone to abstain from voting? By the way, if biden is afraid of people not voting for him because of this, there's a very easy solution and as a bonus (more like the main benefit), he'd stop a genocide. Of course, YOU PEOPLE refuse to accept that biden has any agency and that he must support genocide for some reason.