Current Events > What makes a JRPG?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Tony Hawk's Pro Skater is a JRPG

A role playing game from Japan

Turbam posted...

A role playing game from Japan

So Street Fighter 6, Tekken 8, Unicorn Overlord, DMC V could also be classified under the broad umbrella?

notforremnant posted...

So Street Fighter 6, Tekken 8, Unicorn Overlord, DMC V could also be classified under the broad umbrella?

Yeah, sure

If no other genre label better fits a game, then that game IS a JRPG.

notforremnant posted...

So Street Fighter 6, Tekken 8, Unicorn Overlord, DMC V could also be classified under the broad umbrella?

Only Unicorn Overlord, I see Japanese tactical RPGs as a sub genre of JRPG.

My favorite JRPG is 1989s Anticipation.

being japanese and an rpg?

So what I was talking about was back in the 90's, when somebody told you the game was an RPG, you had a number of checkboxes that it was probably gonna hit most of. Story-focused. Party-based. Turn-based. Town/dungeon structure. Swords and magic. Etc. None of those things, of course, were strict requirements. The genre as a whole got its identity from its tabletop ancestry. And that much remains true today. So it's not like anything has changed in that regard.

But what HAS changed is the scope of that tabletop influence. The last RACER I played had experience and skill trees. I've played scifi shooters *coughMassEffectcough* that for some reason people refuse to let me call shooters simply because you can talk to people and level up. Shredder's Revenge? Experience, leveling--RPG. Arkham City? Experience, skill trees.

Most people wouldn't really argue that my two examples from the other topic, Resident Evil 4 Remake and some Sonic game, would count as RPGs even if they do have some of the mechanics (or most of the examples in the previous paragraph for that matter), because ultimately the determination of genre is at more of a aesthetic level than a mechanic level. That's using the game design definition of the term "aesthetic" that summarizes the overall feel and appeal rather than just how it looks. For example, you do level up in Shredder's Revenge, but that alone doesn't make it an RPG, because at an aesthetic level, it's still a game where you beat up hordes of enemies just because they're in the way and not so much about... uh...

What are RPGs about again? Oh, that's right, this is one genre that's determined by its influences instead of its aesthetic. Which is probably why it's gotten so out of hand in terms of scope.

All I know is, when Final Fantasy 4 and Mass Effect 2 are the same genre according to pretty much everyone, well, what isn't?

vibes

These days RPG elements are almost standard in most games. Many games that are not RPGs will have a leveling system or skill tree so it gets a bit blurred what is and isn't an RPG.

RetuenOfDevsman posted...

So what I was talking about was back in the 90's, when somebody told you the game was an RPG, you had a number of checkboxes that it was probably gonna hit most of. Story-focused. Party-based. Turn-based. Town/dungeon structure. Swords and magic. Etc. None of those things, of course, were strict requirements. The genre as a whole got its identity from its tabletop ancestry. And that much remains true today. So it's not like anything has changed in that regard.

But what HAS changed is the scope of that tabletop influence. The last RACER I played had experience and skill trees. I've played scifi shooters *coughMassEffectcough* that for some reason people refuse to let me call shooters simply because you can talk to people and level up. Shredder's Revenge? Experience, leveling--RPG. Arkham City? Experience, skill trees.

Most people wouldn't really argue that my two examples from the other topic, Resident Evil 4 Remake and some Sonic game, would count as RPGs even if they do have some of the mechanics (or most of the examples in the previous paragraph for that matter), because ultimately the determination of genre is at more of a aesthetic level than a mechanic level. That's using the game design definition of the term "aesthetic" that summarizes the overall feel and appeal rather than just how it looks. For example, you do level up in Shredder's Revenge, but that alone doesn't make it an RPG, because at an aesthetic level, it's still a game where you beat up hordes of enemies just because they're in the way and not so much about... uh...

What are RPGs about again? Oh, that's right, this is one genre that's determined by its influences instead of its aesthetic. Which is probably why it's gotten so out of hand in terms of scope.

All I know is, when Final Fantasy 4 and Mass Effect 2 are the same genre according to pretty much everyone, well, what isn't?

Yeah this echoes a lot of how I see it, now that so many aesthetic design or gameplay mechanic designs have been integrated into so many different genres, you could fit most anything these days into the category. Because like you said, what made a JRPG for me most often was a party structure, a main named character you played as throughout the whole game, & leveling/gear designs with towns or cities you go to in a linear fashion most often.

creativerealms posted...

Only Unicorn Overlord, I see Japanese tactical RPGs as a sub genre of JRPG.

Sure I agree

JRPG (plural JRPGs)

1. (video games) Initialism of undefinedundefined , a traditional genre of role-playing video game generally understood as involving a pre-determined story and player characters, a party of multiple controllable characters, and an emphasis on narrative and storytelling.

Outdated and bad term that shouldn't have ever become a thing

WingsOfGood posted...

being japanese and an rpg?

This. It's kinda right there in the name.

Dark_twisted posted...

JRPG (plural JRPGs)
1. (video games) Initialism of undefinedundefined , a traditional genre of role-playing video game generally understood as involving a pre-determined story and player characters, a party of multiple controllable characters, and an emphasis on narrative and storytelling.

This is how I've commonly viewed it. But games like Elden Ring, Breath of the Wild, & many others are being considered JRPGs now too.

I have always counted From Software's RPGs as JRPGs. But that's just me.

creativerealms posted...

I have always counted From Software's RPGs as JRPGs. But that's just me.

Vehement disagree from me then, but that's up to difference of opinion.

An RPG made in Japan doesnt really work, as for instance, FFIX was made in the US.

Interactive adventure stories, usually with a party of playable characters, usually not much depth in terms of roleplaying choices compared to WRPGs and especially CRPGs, with progression mechanics and either originating from Japan or inspired by games that were, with a heavy emphasis on story and character dialogue.

For instance, Chained Echoes and Sea of Stars were not made by Japanese developers, but theyre still JRPGs because they fit the rest and were inspired by them.

I also dont consider the FromSoft games JRPGs as they dont really fit this. They have progression mechanics and a high focus on building your character, but the storytelling is all environmental and the difficult combat is the highlight. So I consider these WRPGs made by Japanese developers.

PraetorXyn posted...

An RPG made in Japan doesnt really work, as for instance, FFIX was made in the US.

Interactive adventure stories, usually with a party of playable characters, usually not much depth in terms of roleplaying choices compared to WRPGs and especially CRPGs, with progression mechanics and either originating from Japan or inspired by games that were, with a heavy emphasis on story and character dialogue.

For instance, Chained Echoes and Sea of Stars were not made by Japanese developers, but theyre still JRPGs because they fit the rest and were inspired by them.

I also dont consider the FromSoft games JRPGs as they dont really fit this. They have progression mechanics and a high focus on building your character, but the storytelling is all environmental and the difficult combat is the highlight. So I consider these WRPGs made by Japanese developers.

Good post, this is like 99% my view on it as well.

notforremnant posted...

This is how I've commonly viewed it. But games like Elden Ring, Breath of the Wild, & many others are being considered JRPGs now too.

......Ehh. I wouldn't say that.

If someone said "Recommend me a JRPG." and someone replied "Breath of the Wild" I think most people would look at them weird and think "That's not a JRPG...."

SilvosForever posted...

......Ehh. I wouldn't say that.

If someone said "Recommend me a JRPG." and someone replied "Breath of the Wild" I think most people would look at them weird and think "That's not a JRPG...."

You'd be surprised, when someone asks what games to recommend like you say, or what the greatest game of last year or otherwise was, a lot of those games get mentioned as if they were even if people say otherwise.

notforremnant posted...

You'd be surprised, when someone asks what games to recommend like you say, or what the greatest game of last year or otherwise was, a lot of those games get mentioned as if they were even if people say otherwise.

But they specifically requested "JRPG". Not "greatest game". Breath of the Wild is no more JRPG than it is Character Action Game.

And if you'd like to be pedantic and argue that some people would call it that - well then sure. Some people would call anything anything and I guess genre labels have no value anymore.

A JPRG uses the mechanical framework of a traditional (western? TTRPG?), with characters, abilities, inventory, NPCs, etc., but the plot is on rails. The PC (or party) does not get to make any substantial decisions based on "playing" the "role".

SilvosForever posted...

But they specifically requested "JRPG". Not "greatest game". Breath of the Wild is no more JRPG than it is Character Action Game.

And if you'd like to be pedantic and argue that some people would call it that - well then sure. Some people would call anything anything and I guess genre labels have no value anymore.

That's part of the issue like someone in here said. RPG elements are basically a given in lots of titles now, & since Japanese developers are by & large putting out better titles than Western developers these days(at least if you want to talk better than EA, Ubisoft is Western but not from NA, Activision or Blizzard or Microsoft,) a lot of the market that isn't indie games comes down to SE, Namco Bandai, Capcom & so on. Or you have perspectives like Naoki Yoshida who considered the term JRPG for many years offensive, & I understand his point of view on that. They're just developing games like anyone else, but when American titles or something make it to Japan or China or elsewhere, they aren't called ARPGs for American Role Playing Games.

I guess due to how we've always imported a lot of games from the East so the terminology just stuck over time. But yeah I can't count on two hands how many times people have been putting Dark Souls or Legend of Zelda titles or whatever into the JRPG category instead of ARPG or something, but because the developer is Japanese people are throwing them all into the same basket & making organization more tedious for genres.

It's referring to a style of RPG that was created / popularized in Japan. Think of it like bread. If a bake French Bread in America, it doesn't suddenly become American Bread. It may be Made-In-America bread but it's still French Bread. No one even thinks twice about this.

This isn't even specific to bread or even food. Toyota has a factory in Kentucky. It's still a Japanese car, it's just made in America.

Video games are the only thing where there's a weird disagreement over it and I don't really get it.

Tyranthraxus posted...

It's referring to a style of RPG that was created / popularized in Japan. Think of it like bread. If a bake French Bread in America, it doesn't suddenly become American Bread. It may be Made-In-America bread but it's still French Bread. No one even thinks twice about this.

This isn't even specific to bread or even food. Toyota has a factory in Kentucky. It's still a Japanese car, it's just made in America.

Video games are the only thing where there's a weird disagreement over it and I don't really get it.

I don't see the disagreement come up as often with food, but when people put a regional distinction on something like ramen, or bread, or whatever & they're putting their spin on it; you do see the "a southern spin on an eastern treat" & stuff like that. But I don't think people ever consider it not a regional food relative to the country of origin yeah

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The point regarding cars is that the region it's manufactured in has no impact on whether a car is Japanese or American.

Though admittedly things aren't quite as clear as more niche levels. Does a Bugatti count as an Italian car? But I'm not particularly attached to the label anyway.

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This I think is the far better way to handle things. WRPG / JRPG are vague and poorly descriptive. You have no way of knowing if a game is single character/party, turn based/action, or sandbox/theme park just from reading those labels. You can mix and match all three of those things and still somehow end up with a game that could be called either WRPG or JRPG

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Do you consider MINIs to be British or German? They are inspired by an unquestionably British car, festooned in Union Jacks, yet they are owned by BMW (and have many BMW components), but then most are built in UK. It's weird.

There's also more obvious badge engineering, where (for example) the Dodge Sprinter has an American brand (okay, that brand is owned by an American/Italian/French company), but is actually a German design.

All I know is, General Motors is a diseased cockroach of a company and I will never buy domestic again.

I own two Hyundais RN, lol.

Dark_twisted posted...

JRPG (plural JRPGs)
1. (video games) Initialism of undefinedundefined , a traditional genre of role-playing video game generally understood as involving a pre-determined story and player characters, a party of multiple controllable characters, and an emphasis on narrative and storytelling.

Yeah the pre-determined narrative part is the defining characteristic of a JRPG versus something like Baldur's Gate where the story is wildly different depending on your choices.

In a WRPG, the freedom and choices distract you from the thin plot. In a JRPG, the amazing plot distracts you from the lack of freedom and choices. Music sucks in both.

tankboy posted...

In a WRPG, the freedom and choices distract you from the thin plot. In a JRPG, the amazing plot distracts you from the lack of freedom and choices. Music sucks in both.

This is just wrong.

While most of that is true as a rule of thumb, Planescape: Torment for example has an amazing narrative driven by choice. Both have excellent music as well, though its probably fair to say that most music is average, because if everything is exceptional nothing is.

Japanese developed, turn-based combat, some emphasis on plot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game

A Role Playing Game from Japan.

Secret of Evermore (SNES) is a JRPG made by a US development team.
Magna Carta (PC, PS2, 360) is a JRPG series made by a Korean development team.
Chained Echoes (PC: WIN/MAC/LIN, PS4, XBO, NS, XSX/XSS) is a JRPG made by a German KS project team.

So, style is determined by the game's stylistic gameplay elements, not the game team's geographic location of development.
.

Tyranthraxus posted...

This isn't even specific to bread or even food. Toyota has a factory in Kentucky. It's still a Japanese car, it's just made in America.

KFC made in Tokyo with KFC-standard recipes, supplies, and equipment does not auto-magically become TFC. :)

https://www.timeout.com/tokyo/news/the-kfc-restaurant-in-tokyos-grandberry-park-has-an-all-you-can-eat-buffet-063023

I once had someone try to convince me Metal Gear Solid was an rpg game. This was before MGS 5 was ever a thing.

kongsifu posted...

I once had someone try to convince me Metal Gear Solid was an rpg game. This was before MGS 5 was ever a thing.

To be fair, that was quite possibly a Kojima facepalm moment. In MGS2, Campbell keeps telling Raiden to do stuff, saying "that's your role." Finally Raiden asks him why he keeps saying that, and Campbell responds "Why not? This IS a type of role-playing game."

Breaking the fourth wall and getting nerd terminology wrong... that's as Kojima as it gets.

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That's because most people in the West are unaware of the Japanese influences, including From's own King's Field and Shadow Tower games. They mistakingly think it was influenced by some Western game even though it doesn't play like any. I honestly hate the way JRPG is used these days. If it doesn't mean RPG made in Japan then come up with a new label.

ssjevot posted...

That's because most people in the West are unaware of the Japanese influences, including From's own King's Field and Shadow Tower games. They mistakingly think it was influenced by some Western game even though it doesn't play like any. I honestly hate the way JRPG is used these days. If it doesn't mean RPG made in Japan then come up with a new label.

From always felt Western tbh.

Like, I played Armored Core 2, and aside from being about big robots (which is obviously a very Japanese thing) I could have sworn it was made by a Western company. Mostly because the movement sucks, but still.

ssjevot posted...

That's because most people in the West are unaware of the Japanese influences, including From's own King's Field and Shadow Tower games. They mistakingly think it was influenced by some Western game even though it doesn't play like any. I honestly hate the way JRPG is used these days. If it doesn't mean RPG made in Japan then come up with a new label.

FFIX wasnt made in Japan. Is it not a JRPG? Thats why your definition is the stupidest possible one.