Board 8 > Ranking 69 NPC's from Final Fantasy VII Rebirth (plus minigames) (spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

colliding posted...

If you're having trouble, here's some tips. First, DO NOT TRY TO DO THIS WHILE TIFA'S IN HER SWIMSUIT (either one).

But that's the best part.

My tip is: the mini-game will randomly start with L or R and whichever it is, is the only button that will have mash/hold prompts. Pick one side and immediately retry if it starts with the other.

One try you're getting used to the flow of l2 r1 l1 r2. Next try you have to adjust to r2 l1 r1 l2. DON'T DO THAT. Retry and stick to one pattern.

I actually learned because of this mini-game that I am much better at spamming button presses with my right hand than my left (in hindsight this seems obvious, but it wasn't till the alternating challenge that I realised).

Hojo is the best villain in the game. An unremitingly slimy evil piece of work, who absolutely lives to experiment on living creatures and has earned the direct enmity of most of the party. Even Aerith daydreams of torturing him.

Roche has his moments but I wasn't entirely unhappy to see him robed. Thanks for the keychain, buddy.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5f375b61.jpg
Main Character 3
Cloud Strife

Poor Cloud. It's been 20 years since you won a character contest.

Despite the squeaking of his clothes, I enjoyed role-playing as Cloud once again. Picking up where Remake left off, Cloud is his broody yet affable self (for most of the game). The game really plays up the unreliable narrator aspect of Cloud, but it does so knowing that most of the game's audience knows of Cloud's unreliability. It's a really tough road to walk, and I'm pretty impressed by the devs in how they were able to keep the game relatively accessible for fans and new players.

It's not that Cloud is full or himself or lying. He's a naturally shy kid who also happens to have experienced extreme trauma and had his mind spliced with another dude. It's great how the game communicates this in subtle ways: the Zack-like mannerisms in the flashback, the way the game always shows Cloud putting his sword on as soon as he wakes up. During the Junon section, you can sense the "real Cloud" swimming around back there.

The game's willingness to balance the goofy with the melodrama is again a narrative strength. It would have been very easy for the game to lean in to the edge as Cloud starts losing himself to Sephiroth influence, but we wisely still get a bunch of scenes of Cloud cracking jokes too. Despite Cloud turning into an absolute shitheel, we pity him rather than hate him. This is potentially an improvement over the original game, where we are either confused or unmoved by Cloud's odd behavior.

That being said, once we get through Gongaga, Cloud kind of gets his blinders put on, and he becomes a little too obsessed with Sephiroth and the Black Materia. This makes sense plot-wise, but it's undeniable he kind of becomes a broken record. Aside from the date scene, Cloud becomes a little too serious (which is again, not unlike the original game). Cloud shines in Remake - in Rebirth, he's a little more clouded.

Hint for NPC 5: No Mopheads Allowed.
Hint for Minigame 5: You don't gotta go fast.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/b/b69b7198.jpg
NPC 5: Rude

"Shave it clean and make it gleam" indeed.

Rude's the Turk with the most screen time in Rebirth, probably. I mean I haven't actually measured it, but it feels like he's the most prominent. It's kind of a tough ask for Rude since he's normally the "quiet guy" to Reno. He would be boring if he wasn't so good at conveying a constant sense of "FML" to all these insane situations he finds himself in. He rolls with the punches, quite literally.

Rude gets some funny gags in this one. First, he gets his weird bar scene from the original game, updated for a newer and balder generation. This is pure Yakuza-humor and I am here for it. Second, he gets to go ice cream shopping for Elena and gets cut off when he asks if vanilla is okay. That doesn't sound funny when I retell it here, but it was pretty funny as it happened.

He also has a big crush on Tifa, and to be honest I... don't hate it? Cloud probably deserves to be forever alone, considering no one even commented on his write up.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/4/4757777d.jpg
Minigame 5: G-Bike

I feel like I'm extremely comfortable with the G-Bike minigame thanks to the UPA glitch. I beat the expert score, then ended up beating the UPA score like four times before I turned to gamefaqs and reddit for advice. So I've played this game a lot. It's actually extremely easy since as far as I know there's no real reason to go fast? The strategy of holding the accelerator and never breaking just doesn't work. However, if you go at half speed and grab all the G-coins (or whatever they're called) it's cake walk.

It's a well done game with a true sense of speed and pretty cool effects. The music is banging too. This has been a classic since the OG though. It's hard to mess this up (although I have bad memories of Remake and trying to get the "good ending" for Jessie's thirsty ass).

Hint for NPC and Minigame 4: The return of manly tears.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fG5QaaiKNM0

absolutely epic moment. Loved that, and the stonefaced reaction to the hotel hanging man (while Elena shrieks). And for all the songs left off of the OST, somehow the "Ballad of the Bald" still found a spot. They really couldn't have held that for the Plus album, huh...

running theory I'm working with is Rude knew Tifa before the events of FF7 - possibly the Shinra operative who helped save her 5 years ago (per somebody - Doc Sheiran said that I think?), or maybe he also trained under Zangan? Swerving the helicopter to avoid shooting her at the Sector 7 plate, surely he wouldn't do that for any pretty girl running up those stairs?

(watch me missing something from Trace of Two Paths or Before Crisis or whatever, lol)

while Reno got the best Turk stuff in Remake and Elena with Rebirth, looking good for Rude in part 3?? Though as noted, that's tough when you're playing the stoic straightman to bigger personalities.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/a/ad076cde.jpg
NPC 4. Midgar's 7th Infantry
Minigame 4. Junon Parade Performance

Another area where the two lists overlap like kismet. I think Junon is (rightfully) thought of as the high point of the entire game, and a huge part of it is due to the Midgar 7th Infantry. I've already mentioned the Junon Commander and the Adjutant, but I should at least mention them since they start us off on this journey. Cloud essentially transforms into Emilio Estevez from the Mighty Ducks, tasked to inspire a bunch of misfit soldiers into ship into shape for the President's inauguration.

The personalities are great, from a bunch of Rufus stans arguing in front of a cutout, to a bunch of gossips at a bar, to some lazy bums goofing off. One look at the Captain helmet has them doing their ridiculous march off-screen. It's hilarious and endearing. They're innocent naive goofballs who are unquestioningly devoted to Cloud.

The speech before the march is probably the best Cloud moment in the game, because you can sense that this was probably a dream come true for "real Cloud." Becoming a squad captain, being respected by his troops, giving inspirational speeches. He really gets fired up at the end.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/65155056.jpg
Then we get to the actual Junon performance, which is like Loveless and the Honeybee Inn dance but better because it has some measure of customization involved. Plus you get that awesome Junon march music in the background. You can choose an easy route or a hard route based on the number of Midgar 7th Infantry you find; if anything I was a little disappointed since I chose the hardest route and messed up a couple times but it didn't really seem to matter. The game is very generous with positive vs. negative reactions. If you get a perfect can you beat Roche for the first award? Serious question.

The game doesn't stop there though. The Midgar 7th actually joins the party for a memorable sequence of battles and let me tell you I protected them with my life. At the end, Cloud has to leave them behind in a legitimately touching scene. At first, the game fakes us out into thinking we'll have to fight them, which would be truly tragic, but in the end their devotion to the Captain pays off, and they salute one another in a scene that truly conjures the end of MGS3.

All in all, from the initial meeting with the Junon Commander, to gaining the approval of her and the masses, to fighting alongside and forging a bond with the squad, it's a sequence that succeeds beautifully in very quickly endearing you to relatively non-important characters. It's honestly a masterclass in storytelling, particularly when juxtaposed with the Rufus assassination/proxy war subplot.

The popular fan theory now is that after the submarine stuff in game 3, the Midgar 7th Infantry will somehow become the crew for the Highwind. It's a perfect idea, which means it probably won't happen, but we can only hope they come back in some form.

Hint for Main Character 2: Future so bright...

Roche gets an award?

Roche didn't win anything for me.

colliding posted...

If you get a perfect can you beat Roche for the first award? Serious question.

Yeah I won both awards

Beating Roche is actually needed for one of the Johnny trophies, and for the Platinum, by extension.

yeah going back and doing the parade was one of the last things I did, and fyi - even being perfect on the weakest difficulty isn't enough to get you the high score/beat Roche/get trophy. Was perfect and maxed out at like 98k and you need something like 101k to win? Gotta get some 2 or 3 stars in there.

Ultimaphazon posted...

Beating Roche is actually needed for one of the Johnny trophies, and for the Platinum, by extension.

and worse yet, you get probably the best accessory in the game which I was locked out of until finishing the first playthrough

personally I think g-bike would have been bottom 5-10 for me even the first time i played it and dropped further each time they made you replay it

rude's bar is the funniest thing in the game

Crunches are bad in the sense that I hate anything that demands perfection to fully complete. To its credit, it's gotten better as I complete more mini-games. You're always doing something in crunches, while several mini-games have a lot of breaktime. Crunches doesn't really feel like it takes that long in retrospect.

G-bike is whatever. I would have ranked it way lower. I didn't really like the motorcycle parts of Remake either!

Junon Parade is good. I'm not sure if you could practice the different formations, but I would have liked that. 7th Infantry is really good, as I said before. I had no idea people loved the Junon chapter. I thought it was fine, but it might be the worst region in the game for me?

I didn't like Roche in Remake, but I felt like Rebirth Roche took the good/meme parts of Roche and racketed them way up. I liked that he became a black cloak at the end, too. Really effective use of him.

Rude's easily my favorite Turk, but I don't really like the Turks that much! While I docked Tseng points for being too unflappable, Rude's a much better example of giving him characterization underneath his cool exterior.

Cloud's good for what he is. Flashback Cloud is really great and you can feel how off Cloud is immediately. The hallucinations are brought up a lot...possibly too much, but it makes the standout moments in Gongaga and Temple of the Ancients really shine. I'm a bit mixed on how the party treats Cloud. It's ultimately "right" that they don't blame Cloud for his mental breakdowns, but at the same time...he really fucks over the party. The Skywheel dates are all pretty muted moments for Cloud too except Yuffie and maybe Tifa.

Bitto posted...

I had no idea people loved the Junon chapter. I thought it was fine, but it might be the worst region in the game for me?

It's the best from a story perspective. The main game parts of it rule.

Apart from Chapter 14, I thought Rebirth was pretty consistent in its (excellent) quality, with no "high points" that really stood out. This is in contrast to Remake, where Wall Market distinguished itself as an all-time-great caliber level.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/27ab6468.jpg
Main Character 2
Barret Wallace

Two t's or one t, that is the question. I find myself always misspelling Barret's name. It's just one of those things.

This game really cements Barret as the true heart of the party, in my opinion. Here's a guy who comes across at first as pure Id: uncontrollable rage, braggadocio, righteous indignation... a terrorist. As the game proceeds, Barret emerges as someone with no choice but to fight further, a man who has someone he has to protect. And ultimately maybe a man who can hopefully find some alternative to fighting someday.

There are several unforgettable small moments with Barret in this game. Under Junon's dog quest, where he confesses all of these relatable fatherly fears about Marlene growing older. His weird uncle/older brother banter that he has with Red and Yuffie. The sailor suit. The way he cries after Loveless. The way he climbs up ladders with one hand.

I already mentioned how the Corel/Dyne stuff was largely worse this go around, but not a significant downgrade in the way Shinra Mansion and Cosmo were downgrades. The original pathos of the story is still present in Rebirth. The thing about Barret is that he was duped. He bought in to the Shinra propaganda and it cost him everything. So all of Remake's rhetoric about the planet and planetology is really a cover for this core of regret and loss that he is only gradually finding himself able to approach. It really is an underrated arc. We haven't gotten here yet, but this culminates in him not taking the leadership role once Cloud gets k.o.'ed by mako poisoning.

The ignorant masses sometimes claim that Barret was a stereotype in the original game. He wasn't, but Remake/Rebirth unveil een more layers to this guy beyond "angry Mr. T type." Unless the T stands for trauma I guess.

Hint for NPC 3: Remake's biggest mystery, not quite solved.
Hint for Minigame 3: In the Drift.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/7/76f10809.jpg
NPC 3: Alternate Universe Biggs, aka Biggs

Like the Zack-verse, aka Terrier verse, Board 8 is a brief and temporary world that has accepted its own destruction, so I better power through the list.

Biggs living at the end of Remake was honestly an even bigger WTF moment than Zack surviving. Out of the Avalanche trio, he's probably the one you least expected, unless you're a huge Charlie Sheen fan. And yet ,he's also the one who makes the most sense in hindsight, given what Biggs does in the Zack sections of Rebirth.

Remake established Biggs as a worrier / obsessive type, and so it tracks that in Rebirth he's obsessing over why he's still living. This isn't answered particularly well for us, except we can assume that whoever brought him back (Aerith one assumes) brought him back for a reason. It kind of makes sense that Aerith would bring Biggs back in her vision of Sector 5, considering that Biggs helped out at the school and I guess is in a relationship with bee-girl (sorry bee-girl, I'm completely blanking on your name).

What I'm not necessarily down with is the idea that Biggs was brought back solely to get Zack to jump into the Sector 6 mako stream. I don't believe in the omni-Aerith 4D chess stuff. I think Biggs is more of a metaphorical character - symbolizing how even normal people are important - more than an actual macguffin/plot device.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/c/c78ea542.jpg
Minigame 3: Chocobo Racing

As good a Mario Kart clone you'll ever see, chocobo racing is a joy in this game. There's a surprising amount of depth to the chocobo loadouts, with each bird having their own stats and each piece of armor providing a different benefit. That being said, the first bird and the armor that you get from just completing the races in order seems to be the most effective tactic available, so maybe it's not all that detailed?

But boy is it fun. Also the cactuar doors are fine. Quit your bellyaching and just stop running into them! This probably would've been first if it was a bit more challenging and if they added multiplayer.

Finally: they remixed "Crazy Chocobo!" This game was made for us Board 8 adult children, and for that I'm extremely thankful.

Hint for NPC 2: Basically a Kingdom Hearts Character
Hint for Minigame 2: Dearly Beloved

kinda wild that you don't say once in your writeup that you like your #3 NPC :p

Larxene time

MacArrowny posted...

kinda wild that you don't say once in your writeup that you like your #3 NPC :p

I'm rushing because I feel the closure of Board 8 above me like the sword of damocles

but yeah, I like him! I like the way they write his survivor's guilt. I like how he teases out the mystery of Cloud/Zack/the Aerith pocket dimensions. I like that he dies again apparently though I think Zack just ends up in world with another Biggs in it somehow. I like how this apparently is "actual Biggs" transported into the pocket universe, the same way "actual Cloud" comes into the pocket universe at the end.

BK_Sheikah00 posted...

Larxene time

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/ef7117b7.jpg
NPC 2: Elena

The devs absolutely crushed it with Elena. Kind of similar to Yuffie, they took a character whose main quality was being annoying and made her not only likeable, but superior in many ways to her more established peers. A lot of it has to do with her VA; I'm not going to look her up but she does a stellar job with capturing her smugness in a cute way.

She definitely has the most actual personality out of any of the villains in the game, though she probably doesn't have the layers of the list's number one (it should be an easy guess now who this is). She's a rookie. She's a brat. She likes ice cream, but not vanilla. You can knock her off the platform in the Mythril Mines battle apparently.

She's a bit of a "Karen," haircut and all. But she's a sympathetic one. It's telling that mind controlled Cloud has to be stopped from killing her in the Temple of the Ancients.

I like her!

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/8a706fff.jpg
Minigame 2: The Piano

A polarizing choice, I know. I loved the piano. I loved playing the opening notes to "Welcome to the Black Parade" by My Chemical Romance at every piano I came across. I enjoyed spending 35 minutes getting "A" rank in "Two Legs, Nothin to It!" As someone who's ass at rhythm games, it was challenging enough for me to want to keep playing. (I definitely gave up on "Let the Battles Begin" though).

Kirk Hamilton of the Triple Click podcast hates this minigame because he's a professional musician and its nothing like a real piano and it's actually harder to learn to play this than an actual piano. To that I say, who cares? It's amazing how much they were able to put into this. It's amazing that I can look up videos of people making up their renditions of "Eyes on Me" or "Dearly Beloved" or the MGS2 theme on youtube.

No more hints! If you can't figure out the number 1's by now you've got some issues.

The amount of people who lack an understanding of the core aspect of FF7's character design is so wild to me. The people who think Barret is a stereotype drive me batty lmao

NPC Power Rankings.
69. The other Shinra grunt from Nibelheim
68. Garth
67. The Intergrade Squad (Nayo, Billy Bob, Polk, Zhijie)
66. Myrna
65. Jules
64. Seto
63. Leslie
62. Tifas Dad
61. Sonon
60. Esther
59. Captain Titov
58. Madame M
57. Lifestream Whales/Weapons
56. Wise the Robot
55. Zangan
54. Piano Guy (Dorian)
53. Reeve
52. Andrea
51. Chocobo Joe
50. Clouds Mom
49. Choco Bill
48. Heidegger
47. Mayor of Nibelheim
46. Kid G
45. Chloe
44. Broden
43. Don Corneo
42. Wedge
41. Rhonda
40. The Fair Family
39. Scotch and Kotch
38. Dr. Sheiran (Med Sheeran)
37. Gus
36. Bugenhagen
35. Lodbrok
34. Costa del Sol Girls (Naomi, Fran, Yorda)
33. Marlene
32. Jessie
31. Gilgamesh
30. Chocobo Sage
29. Regina
28. Priscilla
27. Gi Nattak
26. Kyrie
25. Becks Badasses
24. Chocobo Sam
23. Chocobo Billy
22. Reno
21. Elmyra
20. Ifalna
19. Cissnei
18. Dio
17. MAI
16. Johnny
15. Scarlet
14. Shinra Middle Manager
13. Dyne
12. Lidrehl
11. The Commander and the Adjutant
10. Chadley
9. Palmer
8. Tseng
7. Hojo
6. Roche
5. Rude
4. Midgars 7th Division
3. Biggs
2. Elena

Minigames
40/ 39. Underground tremor monster / Following a trail
38. Unlocking Chocobo Stops
37. Taking pictures for quests/snaps
36. Chocobo Treasure Hunts (random and specific zones)
35. Wheelie Master
34. Looking at notes
33. Chicken Luring
32. Gears and Gambits
31. Pirate Rampage
30. Caches
29. Mushroom picking
28. Cactuar Trials
27. Playing as Aerith
26. Chocobo Stealth Sequences
25. Minecart Sequence
24. Buggy Escape
23. Leapfrog
22. Towers
21. Following the Robed Figures
20. Chocobo Gliding
19. Playing as Cait Sith
18. Speed Circle
17. Fort Condor
16. Red XIII League (Run Wild)
15. 3D Brawler
14. Mako Springs
13. Summon game
12. Breaking the Boxes (Desert Rush)
11. Loveless QTEs
10. Moogle Round-up
9. battle arenas
8. Unique Monster Hunts/fiend intel
7. Dolphin Riding
6. Crunches
5. G-Bike
4. Junon Parade Performance
3. Chocobo Racing
2. Playing the Piano

Main Cast
11. Cid
10. Sephiroth
9. Cait Sith
8. Vincent
7. Red XIII
6. Zack
5. Tifa
4. Yuffie
3. Cloud
2. Barret

If the board is still here tomorrow, I'll post the #1 write ups. If not, then it's been fun.

I like Biggs but the bit where he talks for a long time to Zach was kind of weird because the VA sounded noticeably not great, and it's Gideon Emery (Balthier) who is usually quite good. Maybe a voice direction thing, I dunno.

I hate that Biggs was brought back, only to die again at the end of Rebirth. It makes me wonder why Aerith (I guess) brought him back in the first place, if he doesn't have a major role to play going forward.

Rebirth Elena is amazing. I never cared for her in the OG, but she's just adorable here.
Chapter 8 Elena is absolute peak. First she's in the desert complaining and asking for her ice cream. Next time you see, she's in the chopper and Rude brought her the damn ice cream. Then you get badass Elena jumping out of ghe chopper onto the friggin Buggy at full speed, followed by a 360 degree flip to get her off. It's ridiculous and I loved every second of it.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1239eded.jpg
NPC 1. Rufus Shinra

In Remake, we got about a chapter and a half of Rufus Shinra, and he managed to steal the show. In Rebirth, nearly from the jump, Rufus instantly establishes himself as a force to be reckoned with. If I can make a reference to the Star Wars sequel trilogy, (and apologies if I'm channeling LMS) it would've been easy to make him a "First Order" type. All vaguely neo-nazi and fascist. Instead, the devs build a character with a pinch of Elon/tech-bro, a dash of uber-capitalist/stock bro, and a whole mess of "my father sucked and I'm glad he's dead."

Throughout the game, Rufus demonstrates that he's more than just a nepo baby. He's a Succession character, eager to lead the SEPC into a new future while leaving the past behind. This is made especially clear during two excellent early scenes. First, where he calls out the Shinra board for never standing up to his father after dropping the Sector 7 plate. Secondly, during his inspiring inauguration speech at Junon. Maybe it's because it's an election year, but I thought that scene was a chilling mix of inspirational rhetoric and underlying malice.

Rufus really has his own plans and agendas, and isn't so much just a villain to the crew or Sephiroth. At first, Rufus doesn't seem to give a shit about Avalanche or Sephiroth, instead looking to expand the brand through extensive war profiteering with Wutai. Eventually, he too is drawn to the Promised Land, which leads to an interesting rematch of Remake's dual. It's once again a highlight.

Boring #1 maybe, and the Wutai/Lodbro stuff isn't perfect, but I'd feel bad if I gave it to anyone else.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/0/0e0884aa.jpg
Minigame 1: Queen's Blood

Another potentially obvious #1, but Queen's Blood is just so damn good. It would be objectively wrong to give it to anything else. Amazingly deep, well-balanced, and above all just plain fun. Queen's blood asks you to challenge your opponent to occupy lanes on the board, accruing points. Simple at first, the game really opens up once you add enfeeblement and replacement cards.

For me, the game clicked once I realized I had to play defensively. This is a game about controlling space and countering versus trying to bulldoze your opponent.

If it was just the story quests, Queen's Blood would probably still be #1 on the list, but the game also features several QB "puzzles" that require you to make new decks, play differently, and understand your opponents cards.

So it really tics all the boxes: great music, fun activity, well-written storyline to accompany it. It's the best minigame, and I enjoyed it more than any other FF card game to date.

Btw whoever thought Moogle Mayhem needed a timelimit can go straight to hell

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/5/5517bb08.jpg
Main Character 1:
Aerith Gainsborough (aka Aeris)

This is Aerith's game. If Remake proved that they could make Cloud cool, funny, interesting, edgy, and pitiful at the same time, Rebirth proves that Aerith is selfless yet jealous, happy yet unfathomably sad, lonely yet loving of her friends. This game will never get credit for this, but it's one of the most human portrayals of a character in modern videogames. People will point to studios like Larian, Naughty Dog and Remedy as having realistic human characters, and Aerith's portrayal in this game deserves to be mentioned in the same conversation. Again - she won't - and that's a shame.

This entire game is built on the knowledge that players will have the tension of "what's going to happen to Aerith?' That's literally the forward action in the plot. It isn't "we have to follow the black robes." It isn't "let's stop Sephiroth." It's will Aerith live? And beyond this, will Aerith be happy? What was going through Aerith's mind in the original game when she died? And so, much of this game is devoted to answering those questions.

The answers reveal that Aerith is complicated. No scene better encapsulates this than the conversation with her on the water tower in Nibelheim toward the end of the game, a scene that almost single handedly saves the entire return to Nibelheim section. It's fitting that Aerith gets her own Nibel water tower scene. It's a scene where Aerith actually confesses to being angry. Something literally happened to my body during this scene. It was one of the most surprising experiences I'd ever had in a video game. I've known Aeris/Aerith for twenty years. Aerith doesn't get angry. Does she?

And I realized that this wasn't a retcon or a rewrite of her character, and it wasn't her acting out of character. This was Aerith as a real person and this was how she'd always been and I just hadn't seen it before. This isn't even a real cutscene either. It's just a random moment in Nibelheim.

As for the ending:
Aerith is dead. The "date" in the pocket universe is playing with the old rumors about ways to revive Aerith. "If you do x, y, z you can bring Aerith back to life!" "If you choose the hairpin, the choco candy, and the showtime pose, Aerith comes back to life!" Except none of those choices matter. It's the game messing with you.

Aerith is alive. Cloud parries Sephiroth's blade, she fights Sephiroth in the final battle, she wakes up after the battle. Cloud has conversations with her and Red XIII senses her presence.

Both are true. What does this mean? I guess the third game will explain, but I don't think she's a ghost. I think the omissions (Cloud's comments after Aerith gets stabbed, the water scene, Cid's comments about "What die Aerith do exactly?") all suggest that the "death" from the original is not being suppressed by Cloud's mind but is actually being overwritten somehow. But it's fun to speculate.

So yeah. Aerith's the best.

colliding posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/1/1239eded.jpg
NPC 1. Rufus Shinra

In Remake, we got about a chapter and a half of Rufus Shinra, and he managed to steal the show. In Rebirth, nearly from the jump, Rufus instantly establishes himself as a force to be reckoned with. If I can make a reference to the Star Wars sequel trilogy, (and apologies if I'm channeling LMS) it would've been easy to make him a "First Order" type. All vaguely neo-nazi and fascist. Instead, the devs build a character with a pinch of Elon/tech-bro, a dash of uber-capitalist/stock bro, and a whole mess of "my father sucked and I'm glad he's dead."

Throughout the game, Rufus demonstrates that he's more than just a nepo baby. He's a Succession character, eager to lead the SEPC into a new future while leaving the past behind. This is made especially clear during two excellent early scenes. First, where he calls out the Shinra board for never standing up to his father after dropping the Sector 7 plate. Secondly, during his inspiring inauguration speech at Junon. Maybe it's because it's an election year, but I thought that scene was a chilling mix of inspirational rhetoric and underlying malice.

Rufus really has his own plans and agendas, and isn't so much just a villain to the crew or Sephiroth. At first, Rufus doesn't seem to give a shit about Avalanche or Sephiroth, instead looking to expand the brand through extensive war profiteering with Wutai. Eventually, he too is drawn to the Promised Land, which leads to an interesting rematch of Remake's dual. It's once again a highlight.

Boring #1 maybe, and the Wutai/Lodbro stuff isn't perfect, but I'd feel bad if I gave it to anyone else.

I love all of Rufus's Rebirth scenes except the Glenn ones

Great list. Fun mostly silently reading along. Can't say I disagree with your #1 picks either.

solid #1s on both counts. For Rufus, loved the Junon stuff (not so much blaming Cloud and co. for assassination attempt but understandable/necessary for the plot I guess) and the surprise Gold Saucer appearance. Aerith was great as always, definitely going to leave a large gap in part 3, unless they do totally shake up the status quo. QB #1 was undeniable.

colliding posted...

Rufus really has his own plans and agendas

I was meaning to ask this in the spoiler topic so I'll ask it here instead: am I out of line for thinking that "Viceroy Sarruf" is actually Rufus?? Nearly being an anagram surely can't be a coincidence and it also ties into his Before Crisis characterization (I might be misremembering, but iirc he was funding Avalanche). And that last conversation with Glenn, of course. Am I out of left field or are we supposed to expect that's the case?

Aerith has been the star of both games imo. Probably the most perfect waifu to ever exist.

Anyway, I don't mind that Square is taking this remake trilogy in new directions. I don't mind that the multiverse plot is complicated, abstract, and upsetting to some fans. I don't really mind how confusing it is, and I honestly *barely* care if I wind up understanding it at all. Instead, I mainly want to see that the characters (and the love that fans hold for said characters) are treated with care, and that the remakes pack the same emotional heft of the original.

That's one of the things Remake did so well in 2020, and what Rebirth was crushing in 2024... until Chapter 14. By leaning so hard on the multi-verse and multiple versions of every character, and by robbing us of the gutpunch that is masamune impalement, Square siphoned every bit of emotion out of one of gaming's most iconic scenes. An off-screen "kinda-death," a dozen boss phases, and several ending cutscenes later... and the only two emotions I felt were confusion and disappointment. They really could not have fucked that up any worse.

Also having just finished it
Mushroom Picking is easily too high

MartinFF7 posted...

solid #1s on both counts. For Rufus, loved the Junon stuff (not so much blaming Cloud and co. for assassination attempt but understandable/necessary for the plot I guess) and the surprise Gold Saucer appearance. Aerith was great as always, definitely going to leave a large gap in part 3, unless they do totally shake up the status quo. QB #1 was undeniable.

I was meaning to ask this in the spoiler topic so I'll ask it here instead: am I out of line for thinking that "Viceroy Sarruf" is actually Rufus?? Nearly being an anagram surely can't be a coincidence and it also ties into his Before Crisis characterization (I might be misremembering, but iirc he was funding Avalanche). And that last conversation with Glenn, of course. Am I out of left field or are we supposed to expect that's the case?

he's almost certainly viceroy sarruf. pretty sure the game wants us to realize that.

I predict Aerith and Zack are both playable in part 3

I'm high on the ending so I disagree with you YoBlazer. I totally get it though. I think Part 3 has the ability to either make the ending to Rebirth better for those who disliked it or it has the possibility of ruining it completely. If part 3 is just the last half of the original game, I think I would agree that Rebirth's chapter 14 is bad. I have hope that they're doing something/planting seeds.

After Remake and Rebirth, I really don't want any more fights with Jenova or Sephiroth. Not sure how R3 can deliver satisfying battles with either of them.

colliding posted...

I predict Aerith and Zack are both playable in part 3

For how much of the game?

MacArrowny posted...

For how much of the game?

If it were me, I'd find a way to make Aerith part of the regular party for at least half of the game. She's too fun to play as to just abandon that kit/moveset.

Realistically, I think she and Zack will have periodic check-ins throughout the game, like a more detailed version of the Zack sections in Rebirth.

I'll bump this one more time for the weekday crew with some final thoughts.Other than that, happy to let this topic fade into the purge. I'll also entertain any final questions or requests for more rankings.

Thanks for reading! This was so fun to write, and reminded me of when I did this all the time in the 2000's. I have to say, if it wasn't obvious, I was extremely impressed by this game. It literally feels like my dream "FF7 remake" in many ways.

I wish my enthusiasm transferred to more sales for this game. This should be the FF game that gets the series back on the map. However, all the sales talk seems to be negative, which is a shame. This will happen when you release a series of disappointing/incomplete games for over a decade. There's a real failure on SE's part to attract younger players to the series (aside from FFXIV, which is I think both a blessing and a curse for the series). This is a game made for 40 year old fans, which is why I love the game but also why it isn't breaking sales records. Console exclusivity hurts it somewhat - I know Sony paid some of the development costs, but the future is Steam/PC (unless they completely shift gears and go back to making smaller / retro-influenced games for Nintendo, which I wouldn't be opposed to).

Where does the series go from here? Remake part 3 ideally will receive the Tears of the Kingdom treatment. Basically the same world map with some additions and added emphasis on flight. Hopefully the story features some actual major twists and turns, because if it stays true to the original the best parts of the story have already been covered. Remake Part 3 really needs to be significantly different in order for it not to feel anti-climactic.

As for the series, I think gameplay wise this is how the games should be. Tone down some of the open world stuff to appease the detractors, but keep the Xenoblade esque world map stuff. There needs to be party members and tactical, if not turn-based, battles. Pure action isn't the way to go. Focus on characters.

Last thought: There should not be a FFXVII. Yoshi P is right on this one thing: let's get rid of numbered sequels. I do think it's hurting the series. Switch to subtitles, or maybe do a huge rebrand. Maybe "The Final Fantasy?"

Anyway - thanks again for reading.

I feel like numbered sequels don't really hurt in general? I mean, DQ11 was the most successful game in the series. Mario Kart went back to numbers and it resulted in their biggest game ever.

Also, Square made a recent announcement that FFXVI was particularly successful with Gen Z, lol. It's apparently the older crowd that they're losing.

13-2 and 10-2 also sold much worse than their predecessors, so I'm gonna assume it's just the effect where direct FF sequels sell less.

As for story, I think the Cloud stuff from disc 2 was a highlight in the original game, still. Not to mention the Cid stuff.

MacArrowny posted...

Also, Square made a recent announcement that FFXVI was particularly successful with Gen Z, lol. It's apparently the older crowd that they're losing.

Would love to see the metrics by which this was graded, but sure. That's great if that's truly the case and not corpo-speak. I wish Gen Z liked Rebirth more then, since XVI was fine but absolutely not where I want the series to head.

Sarruf is Rufus I'm pretty sure.

MacArrowny posted...

After Remake and Rebirth, I really don't want any more fights with Jenova or Sephiroth. Not sure how R3 can deliver satisfying battles with either of them.

For how much of the game?

Well they are saving Safer Sephiroth and Supernova which I really wanna see.

Great topic, thanks for sharing.

Today I was watching some let's plays and I totally forgot to mention Gilgamesh's Power Rangers reference in his ranking

so I apologize for that