Current Events > what's CE's favorite programming language?

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mine wou'd be either C++ or Python, but the NSA says to stop using C++ because of it not being memory-safe...

C#

C#

python

Geometric code

MarthGoomba posted...

C#

i've used C# before, but it's really difficult to get working on a linux system.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

i have a burning hatred for Java and JavaScript.

C++ is most widely used efficient programming language and it's the first one I learned in college

Java is what I use most for work and it's Syntax of similar to C++

Golang is one I've been learning recently it's kind of cool

ArrogantRat posted...

i have a burning hatred for Java and JavaScript.

honestly the two of these have basically nothing to do with each other in any way it's kind of strange grouping them like this

I think I'll also give honourable mention to javascript as a favourite of mine as well, it's nice that it just sort of... runs in any browser. makes it very easy to develop, deploy, use across a variety of systems, etc

Java, they have the data structures built in.

kirbymuncher posted...

honestly the two of these have basically nothing to do with each other in any way it's kind of strange grouping them like this

I think I'll also give honourable mention to javascript as a favourite of mine as well, it's nice that it just sort of... runs in any browser. makes it very easy to develop, deploy, use across a variety of systems, etc

Java is slow and bulky memory-wise, and i've never made a website, so i've never used javascript. i just view it as babby's first programming language i guess.

JavaScript is probably the hardest programming language to use on its own because Im pretty sure the guy who invented it was drunk.

Visual Basic

Big fan of Python. Tried mucking about with Julia a little and it's pretty fun, but I'm far away from actually getting stuff done in it.

I've been using GDScript lately which is basically Python.

C++
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/eee36c38.jpg
This is the speed difference between Programming Languages for a fixed given set of hardware.

ArrogantRat posted...

mine wou'd be either C++ or Python, but the NSA says to stop using C++ because of it not being memory-safe...

NSA doesn't want to pay the proper going rate for quality C/C++ programmers.

They think it's too expensive compared to the cheaper McProgramming degrees many places are farming out.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

NSA doesn't want to pay the proper going rate for quality C/C++ programmers.

They think it's too expensive compared to the cheaper McProgramming degrees many places are farming out.

yeah, my first thought when i heard that was, can't you just program it in a memory safe way?

ArrogantRat posted...

i've used C# before, but it's really difficult to get working on a linux system.

Hasn't been that way for years. If you can configure a Linux system then you can probably figure out the instructions in the link below:

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/core/install/linux

Now I do not think Linux supports visual studio so you'll have to use visual studio code instead but it works. Some people even prefer visual studio code but I'm not one of them.

i guess C++ but thats the one i knew the best throughout the years

ArrogantRat posted...

yeah, my first thought when i heard that was, can't you just program it in a memory safe way?

It requires quality programmers, that costs $$$.

yeah isnt that more on the software engineering/comp sci side? theres tons of ragtag "programmers" who took a bootcamp that can write a functioning program/etc but don't know piss about cpu/memory architecture etc

Naysaspace posted...

yeah isnt that more on the software engineering/comp sci side? theres tons of ragtag "programmers" who took a bootcamp that can write a functioning program/etc but don't know piss about cpu/memory architecture etc

It takes a lot more than just a programmer boot camp, it takes a WHOLE LOT more to be a good programmer.

Naysaspace posted...

yeah isnt that more on the software engineering/comp sci side? theres tons of ragtag "programmers" who took a bootcamp that can write a functioning program/etc but don't know piss about cpu/memory architecture etc

yeah, i went to college for compsci, got good grades, but had to dropout three classes before my degree, so i might be considered one of those programmers.

i did take courses on computer archtiecture though and still remember the basics. we had to write some programs in machine language and understamd how the cpu works.

that doesn't matter to the majority of companies though because i don't have an overpriced piece of fucking paper.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

It takes a lot more than just a programmer boot camp, it takes a WHOLE LOT more to be a good programmer.

This is part of why I was wasting my time trying to study it after high school. Couldve saved myself a year had I known I wasnt born for it.

Dark_Arbron posted...

This is part of why I was wasting my time trying to study it after high school. Couldve saved myself a year had I known I wasnt born for it.

It's not a matter of being "Born for it". Nobody is "Born for it".

It's a matter of how much (drive / passion) do you have for it and how much are you willing to sacrifice to understand how everything works together.

If you're willing to do that, then you can go very far, if that's too troublesome, then you'll quit early.

It's about how badly do you want it. How much effort will you go to learn it on your own, w/o somebody else pushing you to do it.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

It's not a matter of being "Born for it". Nobody is "Born for it".

It's a matter of how much (drive / passion) do you have for it and how much are you willing to sacrifice to understand how everything works together.

If you're willing to do that, then you can go very far, if that's too troublesome, then you'll quit early.

It's about how badly do you want it. How much effort will you go to learn it on your own, w/o somebody else pushing you to do it.

The capacity to develop skills is something you are born with. It takes time and hard work, yes, but no amount of time and hard work will ever be enough without that capacity in the first place. Its like an amputee trying to exercise a missing limb.

Dark_Arbron posted...

The capacity to develop skills is something you are born with. It takes time and hard work, yes, but no amount of time and hard work will ever be enough without that capacity in the first place. Its like an amputee trying to exercise a missing limb.

I don't believe you "Don't have the capacity", that's defeatist talk.
I've seen people from all walks of life, if they "Want to Do it", they'll make it happen.
No matter how hard of a hill it is to climb.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

I don't believe you "Don't have the capacity", that's defeatist talk.
I've seen people from all walks of life, if they "Want to Do it", they'll make it happen.
No matter how hard of a hill it is to climb.

Ive spent more than long enough to know Im a lost cause. I cant be the only one either.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

I don't believe you "Don't have the capacity", that's defeatist talk.

You don't have to believe it, but is an established fact of biology. Like, I get you're going for a sort of spirit/attitude thing, but mental limits exist the same as physical limits, and they're actually not different things at all.

And logically, "wanting enough" is also something you either have or do not have, which would also be a hardcoded limit.

The ones that keep me employed. Right now that happens to be C# and JavaScript.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Ive spent more than long enough to know Im a lost cause. I cant be the only one either.

That sounds like you lost faith in your own abilities and quit.

Not because you didn't have the skills or capabilities.

Guide posted...

You don't have to believe it, but is an established fact of biology. Like, I get you're going for a sort of spirit/attitude thing, but mental limits exist the same as physical limits, and they're actually not different things at all.

Not from what I've seen of other people & IRL examples.

And logically, "wanting enough" is also something you either have or do not have, which would also be a hardcoded limit.

It's not hardcoded, it's based on how badly do you want it.

If you want it "Badly Enough", you're going to climb Mt. Everest for it.

But that's a personal issue, everybody has other things that motivate them and interest them.

Kamen_Rider_Blade posted...

Not from what I've seen of other people & IRL examples.

Ah yes, anecdotes always beat studies.

It's not hardcoded, it's based on how badly do you want it.

Yes, your ability to want something badly enough is the hardcoding. Tell me, what determines how badly you want something?

edit: also the insomnia is wearing off so I might only reply in like 8 hours, but the point is, if you're honest with yourself, you can't actually escape functional limits in any capacity. I'm not speaking of a mindset, I'm speaking of chemistry. Which, incidentally, is what generates your mindset. Arbron is a whole separate issue; it's still optimal to have the mindset you're talking about, but that changes nothing of true limits.

I think I should have been more specific. Its not programming specifically I lack the ability to learn, its most things. Everything Ive ever tried Ive been garbage at, no matter how much time I put into it.

It also doesnt help that no employer even gave me the chance to start at the bottom and learn over time due to discrimination. And nowadays I face even more discrimination, when I was already a lost cause to begin with.

Why even bother getting out of bed at this point?

Dark_Arbron posted...

I think I should have been more specific. Its not programming specifically I lack the ability to learn, its most things. Everything Ive ever tried Ive been garbage at, no matter how much time I put into it.

It also doesnt help that no employer even gave me the chance to start at the bottom and learn over time due to discrimination. And nowadays I face even more discrimination, when I was already a lost cause to begin with.

Why even bother getting out of bed at this point?

get up because fuck everyone who would like to see you down and out. fuck them, just do you in spite of the barriers that exist.

You can't program C / C++ in a memory safe way. I mean, in theory you can. But there is just very little help from the language, and modern computer prorams are so impressively complex that you are bound to make errors somewhere, and those errors can often be so weird that it is nigh impossible to catch them.

If it was just the odd issue here or there I'd say it's a programmer skill problem. But a significant amount of ALL security flaws / exploits across currently used software (most estimates are at least 70%, I've seen some as high as 90%) are directly related to memory safety issues in C and C++. Many major companies/organizations have basically come out and said that C/C++ causes significant issues for them because of its unsafety.

At some point you just have to accept that the fault lies with the language. Which shouldn't be much of a surprise when you consider how ancient they are, in technology terms

kirbymuncher posted...

You can't program C / C++ in a memory safe way. I mean, in theory you can. But there is just very little help from the language, and modern computer prorams are so impressively complex that you are bound to make errors somewhere, and those errors can often be so weird that it is nigh impossible to catch them.

If it was just the odd issue here or there I'd say it's a programmer skill problem. But a significant amount of ALL security flaws / exploits across currently used software (most estimates are at least 70%, I've seen some as high as 90%) are directly related to memory safety issues in C and C++. Many major companies/organizations have basically come out and said that C/C++ causes significant issues for them because of its unsafety.

At some point you just have to accept that the fault lies with the language. Which shouldn't be much of a surprise when you consider how ancient they are, in technology terms

what languages would you recommend as an alternative?

ArrogantRat posted...

what languages would you recommend as an alternative?

Rust

similar speed and ability to go fairly low-level, but with much better enforcement of memory safety

kirbymuncher posted...

Rust

similar speed and ability to go fairly low-level, but with much better enforcement of memory safety

Yea, my friend speaks highly of Rust.

Qbasic

kirbymuncher posted...

Rust

similar speed and ability to go fairly low-level, but with much better enforcement of memory safety

that's what i thought you'd say. i'll give it a go i guess.

I havn't done "real programming" in a while. Just writing powershell scripts. Powershell is an acquired taste but once you get used to everything an object oriented it is quite good IMO

I do wanna learn .net, probably through either C# or Powershell

Rika_Furude posted...

I havn't done "real programming" in a while. Just writing powershell scripts. Powershell is an acquired taste but once you get used to everything an object oriented it is quite good IMO

I do wanna learn .net, probably through either C# or Powershell

i learned bash scripting a while ago. that was a trip, although not difficult once you're used to the weird syntax.
i'm windowsphobic, like i don't really understand it beyond basic Windows Server stuff and gaming, lol. free software 4 lyfe.

Rika_Furude posted...

I havn't done "real programming" in a while. Just writing powershell scripts. Powershell is an acquired taste but once you get used to everything an object it is quite good IMO

I do wanna learn .net, probably through either C# or Powershell

I did a fair bit of C++ a number of years ago at Uni but stuff like pointers and operator overloading didn't really click for me

pointers just point to an address, and operator overloading is when an operator behaves differently depending on the context, like function overloading.

in uni, pointers were drilled into my head with C...

Java and C#

python for scripting and leetcode, C++ for competitive programming, racket for trusting the natural recursion, C# for getting paid lol (depends on your location tho)

tbh if your CS fundamentals are good you really ought to be able to pick up any new language or framework in short order. the hangups people have over language x vs y are way too overblown and anyone who spends too much time worrying about it is missing the forest for the trees

i will say i'm glad that even the web dev circus is coming around on the benefits of static typing nowadays

https://overthewire.org/wargames/

these are really fun if you're interested in learning more about linux and networking btw.