Current Events > How do you get into wrestling when it feels like planned moves being done.

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://twitter.com/MogulAvi/status/1764498609196749286

Like around 0:06 in that clip green bottom guy getting slammed grabs the red bottom dude legs before he gets slammed. Felt like they were dancing with planned moves moment to moment.

AEW fans will seal clap for anything.

Easy. Dont watch it.

Thats bad wrestling. Good wrestling makes you forget its choreographed and believe its a real fight.

BlueTigerLion posted...

https://twitter.com/MogulAvi/status/1764498609196749286

Like around 0:06 in that clip green bottom guy getting slammed grabs the red bottom dude legs before he gets slammed. Felt like they were dancing with planned moves moment to moment.

How do you get into movies knowing all the stunts are planned and choreographed from scratch.

Rosstin316 posted...

Thats bad wrestling. Good wrestling makes you forget its choreographed and believe its a real fight.

I wasn't paying attention to ref. Just rewatched and it seemed like ref might gave green bottom guy a signal to charge at guy at one point.

BlueTigerLion posted...

I wasn't paying attention to ref. Just rewatched and it seemed like ref might gave green bottom guy a signal to charge at guy at one point.

Refs do that sort of thing. They actually have a lot of responsibility in a pro wrestling match. They gotta keep track of time, make sure people aren't actually injured and all that. They also have to be the ones to tell wrestlers when to hurry the hell up and start going through their spots or get to a finish.

Vyrulisse posted...

Refs do that sort of thing. They actually have a lot of responsibility in a pro wrestling match. They gotta keep track of time, make sure people aren't actually injured and all that. They also have to be the ones to tell wrestlers when to hurry the hell up and start going through their spots or get to a finish.

Yea. After looking it up I learned refs know who is meant to win the match and get instructions in an earpiece.

This kind of chain wrestling was common in WCW. Not so much in the WWE.

Of course, they would be doing this kind of stuff at the start of the match rather than toward the end with what I presume are finishing maneuvers.

FortuneCookie posted...

This kind of chain wrestling was common in WCW. Not so much in the WWE.

Of course, they would be doing this kind of stuff at the start of the match rather than toward the end with what I presume are finishing maneuvers.

WCW did it better than AEW and even WWE when they do it.
Back then the wrestlers would mix it up, it also looked like they were more in an actual fight. It's just motions to wrestlers nowadays. Watch a cruiserweight match back in WCW and it's way different than how it is now.

I felt this way as a kid and never got into it

I'm not a wrestling fan at all, but always kind of figured it's the same as a movie or TV. Prerehearsed action, but they do it live. Its not for me but I don't disrespect it.

MabusIncarnate posted...

I'm not a wrestling fan at all, but always kind of figured it's the same as a movie or TV. Prerehearsed action, but they do it live. Its not for me but I don't disrespect it.

It is except different wrestlers have different styles and quirks.
Some guys like to meticulously plan out every single move and moment of a match, other guys love to ad lib and go with how things feel once it starts.

I like and still watch wrestling, but never really dug the overly choreographed stuff like that where it is more obvious that they are working together.

That guy in green is the Wrestler of the Year for 2023 you know (at least according to the hardcore fans who read the dirtsheets).

NFL is faker than WWE

Naysaspace posted...

NFL is faker than WWE

Oh boy please be trolling

Vyrulisse posted...

Oh boy please be trolling

Did you not see the Super Bowl? Exactly how Biden planned it! Then Taylor and Kelce came down and fucked on the half line and looked directly at the camera and said "Vote blue!"

It's a live action TV show, done in a single take. No do overs.

I've fallen in and out of enjoying wrestling over the years but what they actually do is impressive. Better than most heavily produced action scenes in movies and the like to me.

Rosstin316 posted...

Thats bad wrestling. Good wrestling makes you forget its choreographed and believe its a real fight.

I don't think that's true at all tbh. Good wrestling gets you involved in the story that they're telling or working the crowd in the right way.

It's always a show.

I think some of the fans focused on the technical stuff like what's in the OP can lose sight of that sometimes though. Guys like Hogan, Austin, The Rock etc. were better at working the crowd over being technical or realistic wrestlers so overall they have a legacy that goes beyond the ring.

i've never really paid any sort of attention to wrestling beyond playing wwf warzone for the n64 and god damn does this look like it belongs in a video game

the only thing missing are stick waggle recovery prompts

Vyrulisse posted...

It is except different wrestlers have different styles and quirks.
Some guys like to meticulously plan out every single move and moment of a match, other guys love to ad lib and go with how things feel once it starts.

That is true. When you get a movie, the fights often feel the same because they have the same choreographer. With wrestling, you get many different styles meshing together. (Or failing to mesh some of the time.)

That was trash
The pile driver should have immediately gone into a pinfall, instead they decided to do a weird front flip thing
Then the dude totally no sold the weird front face flip, and immediately ran in for a lariat
And THEN there's a 1 count?! Which means that the lariat was also no sold

What was the fucking point of that whole sequence? They just did moves that looked "cool" and didn't even sell anything.
The only way I can see this being passable is if it was at the very start of the match.

Turbam posted...

That was trash
The pile driver should have immediately gone into a pinfall, instead they decided to do a weird front flip thing
Then the dude totally no sold the weird front face flip, and immediately ran in for a lariat
And THEN there's a 1 count?! Which means that the lariat was also no sold

What was the fucking point of that whole sequence? They just did moves that looked "cool" and didn't even sell anything.
The only way I can see this being passable is if it was at the very start of the match.

Yeah that was my big criticism too.

What's the point of these flashy and high impact moves if they're not selling any of it? Selling is what gives it impact!

i had no idea 'one counts' were a thing. seems kinda against the grain of trying to sell drama.

Wrestling has been like that. Dudes have been assisting with shit for a long time. Chokeslams would be impossible without it.

Punished_Blinx posted...

Yeah that was my big criticism too.

What's the point of these flashy and high impact moves if they're not selling any of it? Selling is what gives it impact!

It felt like it was a very meta little sequence of moments. It was like 3-4 moments where they subverted expectations of what wrestling fans would expect 90% of the time in each situation, with the 1 count at the end making the least sense of all lol

It basically makes them look weak offensively but very strong defensively, as in they both look like they have high kayfabe HP now through the no selling but very low kayfabe attacking power... Through the no selling.

So the good stuff is cancelled out and the whole thing is pointless other than to swerve/subvert expectations, but the applause was because wrestling fans love unpredictability

Fluttershy posted...

i had no idea 'one counts' were a thing. seems kinda against the grain of trying to sell drama.

I guess it's meant to show like "omg this dudes power level is off da charrrtz" but he also fails to do any lasting damage to the other guy either so it's just kinda whatever

I know a lot of this stuff looks super fake, because it is, but I feel like if you were grabbed upside down you might grab the legs of the guy who had you out of self preservation. That was not the most unbelievable part of that sequence.

I assume it is like watching a mixture of dance, theater, and reality tv, with a "fighting/wrestling" skin applied. In that lense, I can understand on some level why people like it. It's a very peculiar performance art. I could never get into it.

I guess it's meant to show like "omg this dudes power level is off da charrrtz"

i understand it even less than i did before, thank you.

I think one counts help sell the professional part of professional wrestlinng.

i beg of you to explain.

and i mean the video says he kicked out of it? that means the fight isn't over, right? nothing i thought i knew applies help

Eh, its entertaining and im hoping to be entertained when i go into it.

I mean yeah AEW feels overly choreographed sometimes but its kind of like watching ballroom dancing (and i dont mean that in a condecending way) in that its a work of art in itself.

Fluttershy posted...

I guess it's meant to show like "omg this dudes power level is off da charrrtz"

i understand it even less than i did before, thank you.

Haha, as in wrestler X kicks out at 1 to a move most wrestlers kick out at 2 to, or don't kick out at all

Therefore he seemingly has more HP/power in kayfabe than other wrestlers

so we're clear i ain't judging anyone based on what entertains them, i mean look at my fuckin username lol. i just want to understand

Haha, as in wrestler X kicks out at 1 to a move most wrestlers kick out at 2 to, or don't kick out at all

okay, so you mean the dude who kicked out has a high power level, right? i had this bit backwards.

Basically a one count makes the defender look more like a professional athlete that can't be taken down easily and helps sell the illusion of it being a real contest. If everything gets at least a two count it makes the product seem more like the staged theater that it is.

ForsakenHermit posted...

Basically a one count makes the defender look more like a professional athlete that can't be taken down easily and helps sell the illusion of it being a real contest. If everything gets at least a two count it makes the product seem more like the staged theater that it is.

And all this too.

..though usually 1 counts are for rollups and more basic moves right? That looked like a finisher move or at least a signature move

haloiscoolisbak posted...

And all this too.

..though usually 1 counts are for rollups and more basic moves right? That looked like a finisher move or at least a signature move

Yeah kicking out of a finisher at one shouldn't happen.

The same way I can watch people in a movie do a highly choreographed fight and be entertained. A piece of media Im watching doesnt have to be real for me to be interested in whatever story its trying to tell

honestly I feel like people shouldnt have such a hard time understanding why the fake fight aspect is appealing. Its honestly weirder when people tolerate the bad scripted promos of modern wrestling than it is when people like do g cool stunts and slams and stuff

i remember something like that happening in wwf warzone if i tried to use a finisher at the start of a match, they weren't havin any of it.

so the match in the clip isn't over?

honestly I feel like people shouldnt have such a hard time understanding why the fake fight aspect is appealing.

i'm not a wrestling fan and my only brushes with it came courtesy of the nintendo 64. my current understanding put to a phrasing would be 'combat gymnastics' and i think there's some legitimate technical execution in at least the clip.

Fluttershy posted...

i remember something like that happening in wwf warzone if i tried to use a finisher at the start of a match, they weren't havin any of it.

so the match in the clip isn't over?

Yeah, well in that scenario it's more based on a wrestler being fully fresh and at say, 100%HP. A standard wrestler's finisher might do let's say 75% damage (pulled that number out of my ass) so if ever it was gonna be kicked out of, it'd be at the start of a match

Some finishing moves, like Undertaker's tombstone piledriver, are generally presented as OHKOs regardless of when they're used and kicking out of them is a huge deal

I hope the Pokemon comparisons make sense lol

they are helping lol

And yes the match in the clip is not over, because there's yet to be a 3 count

okay, okay. that was the big one. everyone took a minute to reflect, i thought that was the whistle.

thank you for fielding my questions.

All good! Just in case you were wanted one last bit of info, there's both storyline and practical reasons for there being a minute to reflect/a minutes break before the match continues

Practical reasons is for the dudes to rest and get their actual legit stamina back

The storyline reason is to sell the strength of their moves on each other, basically if they brush it off and jump back to their feet with a smile, it weakens the image of the other guy's storyline power so they both sell it like they're nearly dead

how do you get into films when it feels like planned cinematography?

BlueTigerLion posted...

Yea. After looking it up I learned refs know who is meant to win the match and get instructions in an earpiece.

Refs are also, a lot of the time, people who trained as wrestlers (Nick Patrick and Marc Curtis being two of the more well known examples) but due to other circumstances, became refs as a second choice: Patrick suffered a knee injury which forced him out, while Curtis was a cruiserweight in the era of monster heavyweights, and thus never got a shot at the big time despite obvious talent.