Board 8 > Valentine's Day Mafia Day 1: Looking for Love in All the Wrong Places

(+) Yeah! (+)

I think you are a wolf trying to blow my house down tbh

I think we're getting our conversational wires tangled, lol. My "you clearly didn't say that" was in response to

SirChris posted...

Did you think I was saying everyone who did it was scummy? I never said that.

not

SirChris posted...

I was saying it's a good place to start looking

EDumey posted...

I will say I have in my notes specifically that I thought FD and Ulti's spat was probably not scum theater. So I was looking at Sultan with minor interest on this as well.

Idk I could be the only one to think this but it just seemed so played up

Oic

So what's the problem

I find it a little bit funny that for all the "meta conversation" we've had, no one really cared about Ulti coming to a complete opposite conclusion than fd and chris did.

Let's engage in the meta conversation, Chris.

What is different about this game than a standard Mafia game?
Standard mafia, it doesn't really matter if people like you, only that people dislike someone else more.
Dating mafia, you have to build relationships with people to partner you each day.

Does town come into the game looking to build these relationships very intentionally from the get-go? Or is scum more concerned with making sure they have allies?

Has any other player in this game looked like they've been securing alliances with multiple players other than you?

I'd like to clarify that I didn't do my re-read last night looking to go after you. I was mostly just noting Lopen's wild ride and trying to get a sense of him. What I ended up feeling about you came with the context of seeing MULTIPLE attempts at bridge building that I didn't think really looked natural, and looked like there was intent behind it. That's the perspective I'm actually trying to look at.

PeaceFrog posted...

I find it a little bit funny that for all the "meta conversation" we've had, no one really cared about Ulti coming to a complete opposite conclusion than fd and chris did.

... what is this in reference too? Just looked back at Ulti's early posts and other than seeing him throwing out a ##date request right away, I didn't see him making any comments about meta.

though he did say this:

UltimaterializerX posted...

I want to date Isquen on day 2 so he can actually play a long game of mafia for once.

And it made me wonder how he could sound so certain that isquen wouldn't be killed at night at any point.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

what is this in reference too? Just looked back at Ulti's early posts and other than seeing him throwing out a ##date request right away, I didn't see him making any comments about meta.

I don't remember the page or post number. He made some comment about it being best for town to hook up as early as possible so a scum is left out to dry, or something along those lines.

I don't think he's scummy for it. But an interesting facet of the conversation that has gone wholly ignored

PeaceFrog posted...

I felt like Ulti was pulling me in to the conversation so i can see why you read it that way.

Do you have any date preferences, Death?

My first thought was to just date someone who can read me well or one of my former scummates like Ulti and Corrik

Red and Chris are also tempting.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

And it made me wonder how he could sound so certain that isquen wouldn't be killed at night at any point.

Unless scum has a night zero scam, i don't think isquen is at risk of dying before d2 unless he is unable to find a partner

SirChris posted...

Also I handwave all suspicion of me because I am me. Thought the idea was decent overall

Honestly that is what I expected Chris to say from the start

htaeD posted...

Honestly that is what I expected Chris to say from the start

But the idea isn't decent overall, that's the problem! What is this:

SirChris posted...

And yes. Any player can comment on things. So it woukd be weird if only town did it. That was my thought tbh.

other than completely Not Alignment Indicative!? Any player can comment on things!

What the argument essentially boils down to is, "I've randomly chosen a group of five players, and player the numbers, it's statistically likely that one of them is probably scum."

Standard mafia, it doesn't really matter if people like you, only that people dislike someone else more.
Dating mafia, you have to build relationships with people to partner you each day.

Honestly I dont think thats entirely accurate.
We can still play as if we dislike one person more than anyone else.
The only problem is that we cant afford to make a special out of that person and we have some extra things to arrange on time.

I dislike the secondary description because it sounds like a chair dance rather than a scumhunt.

htaeD posted...

My first thought was to just date someone who can read me well or one of my former scummates like Ulti and Corrik

Red and Chris are also tempting.

Wow not even a mention of someone who fits both of those criteria

You wreck me

PeaceFrog posted...

He made some comment about it being best for town to hook up as early as possible so a scum is left out to dry,

UltimaterializerX posted...

Honestly, towns best play is pairing off asap and forcing scum to out themselves, but actually saying this out loud kind of ruins the plan.

Oh this? I guess i missed it because it was immediately after the post where he pissed me off -_-

I really can't bring myself to agree with that point. There's no way to guarantee scum won't be among the earliest pairs being made and I feel like if we don't stigmatize early pairing it will be used as a crutch by most to participate less.

You can't really learn anything from a mad dash to shack up, right? Anyone's actions in that scenario can be realistically explained by doing what was required by the moment to survive.

htaeD posted...

Honestly I dont think thats entirely accurate.
We can still play as if we dislike one person more than anyone else.
The only problem is that we cant afford to make a special out of that person and we have some extra things to arrange on time.

I dislike the secondary description because it sounds like a chair dance rather than a scumhunt.

And to be clear, I don't think most players have been playing it with the secondary description. Most players' gameplan seems to be fairly normal in this game so far.

With exception to the one player I've been talking about. This is why I'm saying, "Does town come in with this strategy from the get-go?"

Can the same not be said about a special?

Good theater from Dumey and Chris

Almost thinking they aren't paired

Almost

Hey, Peaf, how confident are you that Dumey is town?

And Dumey, how confident are you that Peaf is town?

PeaceFrog posted...

Wow not even a mention of someone who fits both of those criteria

You wreck me

If it makes you feel better I was talking about the most recent game I had, so our past slipped my memory.

Yeah that Ulti comment was what struck me as naive, because thats the optimal scumstrategy moreso than town.

Lopen posted...

Good theater from Dumey and Chris

Almost thinking they aren't paired

Almost

damn i tried chris, my bad.

Kirby321 posted...

And Dumey, how confident are you that Peaf is town?

I dunno, 50% either he is or he isn't? I don't have particularly strong town reads on anyone right now. But I would also consider this normal for my D1 "try not to trust everyone" sort of situation. I am no Ben with his penchant for snap town clears, that's for sure.

You know it would be funny if we already had masons

Are you planning on sticking with Peaf Dumey

Lopen posted...

Are you planning on sticking with Peaf Dumey

I guess that kind of depends on how the rest of the day shakes out. I am not 100% committed to him, and am willing to change the situation up. There's more I could say, but it's kind of a "would defeat the purpose if I say it out loud" kind of thing. Come back to me later on this.

PeaceFrog posted...

Can the same not be said about a special?

You can certainly make the same argument about someone voting the other person who has votes when their life is on the line. Self preservation is NAI.

htaeD posted...

Yeah that Ulti comment was what struck me as naive, because thats the optimal scumstrategy moreso than town.

Exactly. I'd completely missed it though in the heat of that moment so I'm glad peaf brought it up.

EDumey posted...

But the idea isn't decent overall, that's the problem! What is this:

other than completely Not Alignment Indicative!? Any player can comment on things!

What the argument essentially boils down to is, "I've randomly chosen a group of five players, and player the numbers, it's statistically likely that one of them is probably scum."

We have a group of 15 people. Why not narrow it to a group and find the wolfiest person in it

That is basic segmenting

Anyway this is an interesting game because if two people town read a wolf and never recant town literally can't win.

So that's kind of neat tbh. The standard for town is super high this game. It's why I said day 1 is going to be be hard to matter

Swap at 450:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80706091

Do I think Dumey is town? Not particularly. He's been pretty NAI so far and I'm no better at reading him than I am at reading anyone else.

Do i think i will have the most fun in the night phase with him as my date? Yes, absolutely.

I for one think that some people pairing up early isn't a bad thing at all because you won't get many breakups if everyone waits until the last six hours of the day.

And we all know that breakups cause more drama the longer the pair are together.

SirChris posted...

We have a group of 15 people. Why not narrow it to a group and find the wolfiest person in it

That is basic segmenting

Depends on what your reason is for narrowing down people. Because arbitrary choices run the literal risk of missing all 3 scum members.

EDumey posted...

I guess that kind of depends on how the rest of the day shakes out. I am not 100% committed to him, and am willing to change the situation up

Seems strange to me that a guy who gave us a disposition about how the lynch theory will play out at the start of the game apparently has zero strategy on how to optimally select a date to employ or share.

SirChris posted...

We have a group of 15 people. Why not narrow it to a group and find the wolfiest person in it

That is basic segmenting

Did you just do basic segmenting? Or did you buddy up to Lopen, co-opting his argument, while giving vacuous passes to four of the five players in the chosen group?

Can you acknowledge that I'm currently in your scum pile, but Kirby isn't because you liked that Kirby gave you a compliment? And that's the criteria that you're using?

I keep trying to bring the conversation back to this concept of you building bridges with players with some motivation, but you keep trying to side step it and engage only with the minor premises. Why do you keep avoiding the broader picture?

Lopen posted...

Seems strange to me that a guy who gave us a disposition about how the lynch theory will play out at the start of the game apparently has zero strategy on how to optimally select a date to employ or share.

My "disposition" of

EDumey posted...

Inactive players are naturally more at risk of not finding a partner unless they partner up with each other in the times they are available. Unless we specifically try to rescue them.

?

I think Lopen was referring to your temporary insanity where you were insisting we could force exactly 2 people to be unpaired.

I think you're being blinded by the LopenLight, Dumey. It sounds to me like he's being critical of chris there.

And fd comes to a different conclusion!

Perhaps we could all be clearer with our words and avoid such unnecessary confusions.

Oh, or that. Maybe I should just let Lopen confirm for himself what he meant lol

Haha, I don't think Lopen was talking about Chris there.

Forceful_Dragon posted...

I think Lopen was referring to your temporary insanity where you were insisting we could force exactly 2 people to be unpaired.

Yes, I think Lopen is saying that I put a lot of words into how the day might go, but the vast majority of all that conversation had literally nothing to do with strategy about how or who we should pursue dates with. So it doesn't really make sense to me.

He talked strategy way more than you did, is why i thought he meant him.

I was referring to basically that you ran your mouth about how lynches are gonna play out and how the game works but then are potentially pairing up with a 50-50 town scum guy which feels like the worst game theory to me

Chris to his credit isn't saying "I might pair up tonight with this guy I don't have any read on unless something zany happens"

Lopen posted...

I was referring to basically that you ran your mouth about how lynches are gonna play out

I don't think this would hold up to scrutiny. I spent several posts being confused about how math works. It was an honest mistake and me wondering about why a rule was written the way it was. I did not give any game theory or overall strategy of how people should pair up.

Lopen posted...

Chris to his credit isn't saying "I might pair up tonight with this guy I don't have any read on unless something zany happens"

On the contrary, Chris has admittedly said that he doesn't think this D1 has much value, and he is focusing on the legacy of players instead.

Also I just said that there is something to come back to later.

I like Peaf's answer more than Dumey's. Feels more authentic and less wishy-washy even if the general sentiment is the same as Dumey's response.

But also, I can relate. I want to adopt the Lea method of pairing up with the person who'd be the most fun to talk to at night (so I'm sadge that Ben and Wallz aren't in this game); however, I'm more wary of saving scum by shacking up with them.

Wallz and Ben not being in was a big hit to the metagame.

I'm not wary of saving scum by dating them, I'll simply devour them in the discord chat.

That being said, it's Day 1, and true specials are gonna be damn near impossible in this game. I'll be laissez-faire about who I get paired up with.

Also have we heard anything from JC since the game started?

Kirby321 posted...

That being said, it's Day 1, and true specials are gonna be damn near impossible in this game. I'll be laissez-faire about who I get paired up with.

Also have we heard anything from JC since the game started?

JC came in and made two joke posts. But no real contributions IIRC.

Joke posts are how you get The Bitches

THE b****es, not just any!?