Current Events > Anti-votes should be a thing. (US Politics)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Like, a vote is +1 for a candidate. An anti-vote is -1 for a candidate. In the end, it plays out the same. If you're tied 20 to 20, it doesn't matter if the opposing team scores 1 point or you have 1 point subtracted from your score. They still lead by 1.

Why split hairs? Because I recognize the necessity for voting against Donald Trump, but I legitimately do not feel comfortable with voting for Joe Biden.

Option 1 is, "I approve of the persecution of Palestinian people, Hispanic People, Asian people, Black people, gay people, trans people, and women."

Option 2 is, "I approve of the persecution of Palestinian people only."

I don't support the persecution of Palestinians period. Israel has a right to exist, but no government has a right to engage in genocide. And I don't want to vote in favor of someone who condones it -- even if a worse option lurks as the alternative.

I want to vote against Trump. I know that means Biden winning by default. But I don't want to "help" him or show support for what he does. I simply want to prevent the greater of two evils from taking office.

The internet was a mistake.

but first, the basics of particle deflection

FortuneCookie posted...

Like, a vote is +1 for a candidate. An anti-vote is -1 for a candidate. In the end, it plays out the same. If you're tied 20 to 20, it doesn't matter if the opposing team scores 1 point or you have 1 point subtracted from your score. They still lead by 1.

Why split hairs? Because I recognize the necessity for voting against Donald Trump, but I legitimately do not feel comfortable with voting for Joe Biden.

You're ignoring the possibility of anti-votes handing the win to a 3rd candidate that wouldn't have gotten enough votes to win otherwise. That's a terrible system.

Saying that Joe Biden is condoning genocide in Gaza isn't limited exclusively to people who want a stealthy way to support Trump. What he's allowing is legitimately fucked up and I don't want to vote for him.

Besides, it would be more reflective of how the public feels. It's like having a like button or a dislike button (something YouTube removed from the public eye because the wrong sponsors were getting downvotes).

What you actually want is ranked choice voting.

The only thing stupider than this topic is the Electoral College.

NoxObscuras posted...

You're ignoring the possibility of anti-votes handing the win to a 3rd candidate that wouldn't have gotten enough votes to win otherwise. That's a terrible system.

Release from the stranglehold of the two-party system? Oh, no...

So you want an option that you acknowledge produces the exact same result as the option that you already have.

SaikyoStyle posted...

What you actually want is ranked choice voting.

I want a way of ensuring Trump's loss without having to say that I condoned Genocidal Joe.

Grow up.

Tenlaar posted...

So you want an option that you acknowledge produces the exact same result as the option that you already have.

Think of it like medics in World War 2 who were conscious objectors. Naturally, they wanted the Nazis to lose. But they didn't want to go out and kill or be responsible for any of the destruction that war brings.

Wait. So in TCs case, dems would have few people vote 3rd party and take away trump.
But all Republicans would vote Trump and take away a vote for Biden.

Doesnt seem to play out the same...

FortuneCookie posted...

I want a way of ensuring Trump's loss without having to say that I condoned Genocidal Joe

For the millionth time, protest non-voting is useless at best, actively harmful at worst. As people said before 2020, pinch your nose and vote for Biden. That is the best option you have whether you like it or not.

aarrgus posted...

Grow up.

We've pretty much always been voting for less bad. Not sure what makes 2024 Biden somehow extra unconscionable. He was the VP of a two-term President who saw America personally drone the shit out of the Middle East, and he supported all kinds of dumb "tough on crime" bills back in the day. But now, with Republicans going full fascist and our very lives at stake, we're having struggles justifying voting for the smaller asshole?

FortuneCookie posted...

I want a way of ensuring Trump's loss without having to say that I condoned Genocidal Joe.

We have been throwing money at genocidal Israel for decades.

hockeybabe89 posted...

We have been throwing money at genocidal Israel for decades.

Yeah but only now at the most critical election in any of our lifetimes is it suddenly a problem.

And these people wonder why they are suspected of being Trumpers in disguise. Because theyre going out of their way to look like it.

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Wait. So in TCs case, dems would have few people vote 3rd party and take away trump.
But all Republicans would vote Trump and take away a vote for Biden.

Doesnt seem to play out the same...

To keep the numbers simple, each vote listed counts for approximately 10 million people.

6 votes for Biden
2 votes against Biden
6 votes for Trump
10 votes against Trump

The end count is that Biden has 4 votes and Trump has -8 votes.

It's a much stronger "fuck this guy" statement than Biden winning.

This is a bad topic and you should feel bad for making it.

hockeybabe89 posted...

We have been throwing money at genocidal Israel for decades.

But Israel hasn't engaged in genocide until now. They have a full-scale war going on and they're bombing hospitals and refugee camps. That wasn't going on until now.

Obama would have lobbied sanctions against Israel's government -- even if it "confirmed" that he was secretly a Muslim. (Emphasis on quotations marks. 'bama's a Christian. And there's nothing wrong with being a Muslim.) I think even Dubaya would have sternly waved his finger against Netanyahu's actions.

Oh wait are you saying a person can only give either a vote or take away a vote, not have 1 of each?

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Oh wait are you saying a person can only give either a vote or take away a vote, not have 1 of each?

Exactly.

Basically, writing "Mickey Mouse" as a protest vote -- but having it actually count for something.

FortuneCookie posted...

But Israel hasn't engaged in genocide until now.

Uh

SaikyoStyle posted...

What you actually want is ranked choice voting.

FortuneCookie posted...

I want a way of ensuring Trump's loss without having to say that I condoned Genocidal Joe.

Ranked choice is literally this, BTW. It lets people vote for third party candidates that have zero chance of ever winning, while also letting them vote for the candidate they know can actually win.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Uh

It's like confederate cops in America. When they murder unarmed Black men, they know that they are contributing to the depopulation of an ethnic group. This is more like surrounding Harlem with a full army and shooting anyone who tries to escape.

Israel's government has not bombed hospitals until now.

hockeybabe89 posted...

We have been throwing money at genocidal Israel for decades.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Yeah but only now at the most critical election in any of our lifetimes is it suddenly a problem.

And these people wonder why they are suspected of being Trumpers in disguise. Because theyre going out of their way to look like it.

Do I really have to explain to you two how time works? What apartheid is? What genocide is?

You can both rightly call me a hypocrite for voting Democrat when it was apartheid and not a genocide. You can't say it doesn't make sense why I consider genocide worse than apartheid.

Caelthus posted...

Ranked choice is literally this, BTW. It lets people vote for third party candidates that have zero chance of ever winning, while also letting them vote for the candidate they know can actually win.

I'd be fine with that.

FortuneCookie posted...

But Israel hasn't engaged in genocide until now. They have a full-scale war going on and they're bombing hospitals and refugee camps. That wasn't going on until now.

Obama would have lobbied sanctions against Israel's government -- even if it "confirmed" that he was secretly a Muslim. (Emphasis on quotations marks. 'bama's a Christian. And there's nothing wrong with being a Muslim.) I think even Dubaya would have sternly waved his finger against Netanyahu's actions.

Israel was absolutely partaking in genocidal actions long before they used 10/7 to justify turning Gaza to rubble. But now they're doing too much genocide and you can't vote for Biden if he won't cut off Israel from the bipartisan unconditional support they were used to? Why wasn't America's support of say... Saudi Arabia already souring you on voting?

ButteryMales posted...

Do I really have to explain to you two how time works? What apartheid is? What genocide is?

You can both rightly call me a hypocrite for voting Democrat when it was apartheid and not a genocide. You can't say it doesn't make sense why I consider genocide worse than apartheid.

"If we support countries that brutally oppress citizens, that's fine, but when those countries start shooting those citizens, I can't take it anymore"

FortuneCookie posted...

It's like confederate cops in America. When they murder unarmed Black men, they know that they are contributing to the depopulation of an ethnic group. This is more like surrounding Harlem with a full army and shooting anyone who tries to escape.

Israel's government has not bombed hospitals until now.

Take a look at the maps showing the declining pattern of Palestinian territory in the past 75 years, along with the yearly death rates. It has always been an ethnic cleansing.

Can I anti-vote TC being allowed to post

hockeybabe89 posted...

"If we support countries that brutally oppress citizens, that's fine, but when those countries start shooting those citizens, I can't take it anymore"

This reminds me of the sarcastaball episode of South Park when Randy says something honestly sarcastically.

That's a reasonable thing for people to say. We have free trade with China. Before the Russia-Ukraine war we had free trade there too.

hockeybabe89 posted...

Israel was absolutely partaking in genocidal actions long before they used 10/7 to justify turning Gaza to rubble. But now they're doing too much genocide and you can't vote for Biden if he won't cut off Israel from the bipartisan unconditional support they were used to? Why wasn't America's support of say... Saudi Arabia already souring you on voting?

Because I can't spend a dollar without a few cents of it going to Saudi Arabia.

Also, because like anything else, the amount of attention it receives plays a factor. Black Americans have been saying for decades that police have been persecuting them, but it took bystanders recording these acts on their phone for it to become the hot button issue that it is today.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Take a look at the maps showing the declining pattern of Palestinian territory in the past 75 years, along with the yearly death rates. It has always been an ethnic cleansing.

Some of that has been them defending themselves and pushing their attackers back a bit further each time. Or that's been the story at least. If I've fallen for lies for years, I wouldn't be surprised.

But here it is front and center and undeniable. That makes a difference.

StealThisSheen posted...

Can I anti-vote TC being allowed to post

@StealThisSheen

You actually can. You have the option to block me or to ignore me.

ForsakenHermit posted...

The internet was a mistake.

Agreed. I get there's nothing to do until November, but these threads are childish and stupid

You can vote Biden and still push back against his support of Israel's actions by doing things like protesting and writing to the white house and/or your reps in Congress. I can't promise those will achieve the result you want but I can say a weird anti-vote system would not.

xlr_big-coop posted...

Agreed. I get there's nothing to do until November, but these threads are childish and stupid

Youll be voting Trump so this thread isnt really for you.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Youll be voting Trump so this thread isnt really for you.

If the internet hadn't been invented the concept of anti-votes wouldn't be a thing

NoxObscuras posted...

You're ignoring the possibility of anti-votes handing the win to a 3rd candidate that wouldn't have gotten enough votes to win otherwise.

So? Maybe the first two parties shouldn't have picked candidates despised by 70% of the country each.

Tenlaar posted...

So you want an option that you acknowledge produces the exact same result as the option that you already have.

Yes.

I'd anti-vote Trump in a heartbeat. While you have a better chance of electing Bernie Sanders than of getting me to vote for a Hillary or a Biden.

Basically I'd love to vote against Trump but if it requires explictly saying yes to a foul corporate warmonger or a goofy corporate warmonger becoming/staying leader of the most powerful country in the land then fuck that.

If the closest thing some people can get to anti-voting is voting 3rd party, that's what they'll do.

xlr_big-coop posted...

Agreed. I get there's nothing to do until November, but these threads are childish and stupid

You know damn well the only reason cheeto god has any chance of winning is because this isn't how the election works.

Some people really need to grow up.

FortuneCookie posted...

Like, a vote is +1 for a candidate. An anti-vote is -1 for a candidate. In the end, it plays out the same.

It really doesn't.