Current Events > The entire world of PC gaming rigs is a big scam, right?

(+) Yeah! (+)

I've been humming and hawwing about building a new gaming PC, and I keep coming across this weird cognitive dissonance. Maybe I'm misunderstanding things, but it's like all these contradictory views are held in tandem:

+ PC gaming is more cost effective than buying a console
- A console is around 500 and don't even talk about building a PC this cheap, that's a waste of money and time

+ That hardware is trash, You should use X hardware instead.
- Actually pretty much any of the top games will run on the "trash" hardware at 60FPS on a 1440p monitor, which is realistically as good as I ever expect

+ If you want a superb gaming rig, consider spending over 1200
- as above pretty much all current AAA games will run on excellent settings at half that price

+ you should spend more on a PC because it's not just for gaming, it does all your other stuff too.
- your trash 10+ year old budget desktop will do literally all of your other tasks unless you are a CAD engineer

+ You should "future proof" your PC by buying a more upmarket version. Also wait a few months until X part comes out
- There is no such thing as "future proofing" and new hardware is coming out all the time and eclipsing whatever is on the market every few months anyway
- a basic cost-benefit breakdown seems to show that it would actually be more cost effective to just build a cheap rig every few years, rather than buy an expensive one less often

+ Build a good rig because it is an investment
- your hardware dives off a cliff in value faster than a luxury car

--------------------------
It sort of makes me think that actually the whole idea of building an expensive "rig" is just entirely a hobbbyist thing. Which is fine. But I'm struggling to see the actual cost-benefit here with spendng anthing more than like...700. The diminishing returns seem incredibly steep. I keep coming back to the idea that if I really want to play the games I like at excellent settings then I should halve my budget.

pinky0926 posted...

It sort of makes me think that actually the whole idea of building an expensive "rig" is just entirely a hobbbyist thing. Which is fine.

Because it is.

Logical Increments. Still the best starting point.

Bandit_Keith posted...

Because it is.

Logical Increments. Still the best starting point.

That's what I've been looking at. I kept coming back to this 1200 figure.

And then what I did was look up the recommended requirements for all the games I want to play and the budget came out more like 600.

To answer the topic title. No. Not at all. It seems like you've let memelords influence you quite a bit though.

pinky0926 posted...

That's what I've been looking at. I kept coming back to this 1200 figure.

And then what I did was look up the recommended requirements for all the games I want to play and the budget came out more like 600.

What tier on Logical Increments are you looking at? Because the "Good" tier is definitely around 600.

Ryangrad posted...

To answer the topic title. No. Not at all. It seems like you've let memelords influence you quite a bit though.

Ok. Tell me how it makes financial sense to spend a couple of grand on a gaming PC.

Bandit_Keith posted...

What tier on Logical Increments are you looking at? Because the "Good" tier is definitely around 600.

"Superb", because I thought that it'd be fun to get something slightly speccy. But aside from sating my own ego I can't really figure out what that extra money buys me.

pinky0926 posted...

+ PC gaming is more cost effective than buying a console
- A console is around 500 and don't even talk about building a PC this cheap, that's a waste of money and time

You have to keep in mind that everyone has a PC of some kind, so it's more like about if you want a good PC or a cheap one and a console.

+ That hardware is trash, You should use X hardware instead.
- Actually pretty much any of the top games will run on the "trash" hardware at 60FPS on a 1440p monitor, which is realistically as good as I ever expect

Most people refer to price/performance of components and things always change. Less than a decade ago, AMD was completely irrelevant in CPU market, but nowdays it's just dumb to buy Intel over AMD for gaming.

+ If you want a superb gaming rig, consider spending over 1200
- as above pretty much all current AAA games will run on excellent settings at half that price

There's your bad PC+console or just a good PC argument. Add the lower cost of games and no subscription required to go online and it evens out.

+ you should spend more on a PC because it's not just for gaming, it does all your other stuff too.
- your trash 10+ year old budget desktop will do literally all of your other tasks unless you are a CAD engineer

If you get a trash desktop, it will surely be useless in 5 years. Most desktops that are trash now were good once upon a time.

+ You should "future proof" your PC by buying a more upmarket version. Also wait a few months until X part comes out
- There is no such thing as "future proofing" and new hardware is coming out all the time and eclipsing whatever is on the market every few months anyway
- a basic cost-benefit breakdown seems to show that it would actually be more cost effective to just build a cheap rig every few years, rather than buy an expensive one less often

You're right. I'd say that the best thing would be to partially upgrade every couple of years.
For example, I've been using the same case for 15 years now. And everything inside it has been changed at least 3 times.
GPU is more or less half the price of everything, so I upgrade GPU separately. Did it a couple of years ago, this year I'm buying everything else except case, GPU, SSDs, fans and peripherals.

+ Build a good rig because it is an investment
- your hardware dives off a cliff in value faster than a luxury car

It's all about what you value and need.
PC gaming is a hobby and of course that it's going to get expensive if you get into it, but compared to other technology, it's not that expensive.
A lot of people who constantly talk about how PC gaming is expensive change their phones on yearl basis. I'd never spend more than a couple hundred on a phone and then I use it until it literally falls apart. Some people spend a lot on home theatres and massive TVs with high-end surround sounds.
There are people who don't spend on technology, but have dozens of shoes.
Some people spend it on drugs.

It's all about your budget and preferences.
If you look at steam surverys, most players are on low end hardware, but are still playing and enjoying games.

If you ask me, AAA aspect of gaming has been garbage for the most part and it's only purpose is to attract casuals, with a few actually great games here and there. Meanwhile when you look past those AAA titles there are still a ton of games that aren't hardware demanding and are way more enjoyable.

pinky0926 posted...

Ok. Tell me how it makes financial sense to spend a couple of grand on a gaming PC.

Because that's what those people want to spend their money on to enjoy themselves. That doesn't make it a scam by any means. That silicon really is expensive.

GunmaN1905 posted...

Good post, thank you. What I might do is check my current parts and see if there is anything salvageable. There isn't much but it's worth a look. Could use my case, but it is ugly. My PSU is probably fine too.

Ryangrad posted...

Because that's what those people want to spend their money on to enjoy themselves. That doesn't make it a scam by any means. That silicon really is expensive.

"Scam" in this thread is hyperbole for "not an investment or wise to spend more for any fiscal reason, but you do you".

If we were talking about boots (a topic I am more comfortably clued up on, I could tell you that spending more than say $200 is almost always a "scam" in the context of durability or cost saving, but people really love boots and you won't get the sort of boots you want for that sort of money.

pinky0926 posted...

Good post, thank you. What I might do is check my current parts and see if there is anything salvageable. There isn't much but it's worth a look. Could use my case, but it is ugly. My PSU is probably fine too.

PSUs are usually good for a decade, if not more.
Still, if your current PC is bad, I doubt it's powerful enough for a new build.
You'd need 650W at least.

If you decide to go with a new PC, just ask for help on PC board. A lot of people follow the prices, reviews and benchmarks and will give you the best price/performance advice.

pinky0926 posted...

"Scam" in this thread is hyperbole for "not an investment or wise to spend more for any fiscal reason, but you do you".

Uh...sure. Okay. I mean, that's not what the word means, even with hyperbole. But you do you.

Most of this stuff was true from the prepandemic days before both the chip shortages and the cryptodicks pushed gpu manufacturer's profit margins so high that the only way they could ensure Line Always Goes Up was by tripling or more even the msrp of even their most entry level models. They've also highly restricted how much third parties both pay for their chips and also how much they can charge, stifling competition.
PCs being more cost effective might still, just barely, be true if you take into account that console multiplayer requires subscriptions on top of your internet sub, while PC doesn't. Plus sailing the high seas is much easier to accomplish on pc.

Getting a top of the line or mid range PC gaming rig in the mid 2010s was such a great investment. It really was a massive leap over the PS4 at the time. For years and years you could just set a game on high or ultra and be good to go.

Nowadays it's like you're paying a few hundred extra dollars just for native 4k and some fancy lighting. Now that consoles also render in high resolutions with 60fps modes the difference barely seems noticeable and ports are now way more demanding too.

Doesn't help that in my region the dollar sucks ass on top of price parts shooting up. It's not how it used to be so I'm primarily back to consoles.

Steam Deck is nice though. I'm just sticking with that for my old library and deals.

In regards to future proofing theres definitely a sweet spot you can hit that gives you more longevity out of your machine before it feels inadequate without breaking the bank.

The points I try to hit are

• Have as many CPU cores as new or upcoming console generations. In a case like today, where the specs of upcoming consoles is not known and the current gen is long in the tooth, going for double (so 16 cores) is probably the best
• Have twice the RAM of what the consensus of enough would be. I built my current PC with 32GB of RAM at the end of 2019 when people were saying 16GB was fine. These days most would recommend 32GB as a minimum for a new machine

For GPUs its hard to nail down a consistent rule. I usually look for a good price/performance card and then upgrade halfway through my machines life to a newer one if I feel the original is lacking. It also depends on your target resolution and FPS. Right now Id say the 4060 ti as a lower price option or the 4070 super as a higher price point (especially if youre going for 1440p) would be the two Id consider if I was building a machine today.

pinky0926 posted...

- your trash 10+ year old budget desktop will do literally all of your other tasks unless you are a CAD engineer

This is the real cognitive dissonance.

1. You can buy a 30 year old used Toyota. It will get you from point A to point B.
2. You can watch all your TV on a 20 inch CRT from the 80s (just need a cheap digital converter)
3. You can browse the Internet on dial up (yes it's still a thing that exists).

And so on... These things all get the job done. You probably don't do any of this, though, because when you have something that you use very often, you'll want a better experience when you use it. That means buying newer and more expensive things. With a PC it's no different. If you use your PC for several hours a day, your life would be dramatically improved by not having a 10+ year old junk.

This has nothing to do with gaming at this point. A newer, faster PC is just a thing anyone who regularly uses a computer should have. Once you add gaming into the mix, the difference becomes even more apparent.

But a lot of people will often neglect certain issues because it doesn't really help their arguments. For example:

pinky0926 posted...

+ PC gaming is more cost effective than buying a console
- A console is around 500 and don't even talk about building a PC this cheap, that's a waste of money and time

You can bargain hunt for a good PC that is that cheap and not a "waste of money" but nobody ever talks about how you can also bargain hunt for the console to get it even cheaper. Back when the PS Vita was $250 for example I bought a used refurb for $100. It came in an ugly brown box with no documentation and only a 30 day warranty but it worked.

pinky0926 posted...

+ That hardware is trash, You should use X hardware instead.
- Actually pretty much any of the top games will run on the "trash" hardware at 60FPS on a 1440p monitor, which is realistically as good as I ever expect

This isn't cognitive dissonance as these views are always going to be held by different people. For some they're okay with turning down other settings to get that high resolution+frame rate. Someone like me absolutely must have AA and high resolution textures/shadows/meshes and for the kinds of games I want to play I end up spending no less than $2000. This is just a matter of opinion and you have to decide what's right for you.

Tyranthraxus posted...

This has nothing to do with gaming at this point. A newer, faster PC is just a thing anyone who regularly uses a computer should have. Once you add gaming into the mix, the difference becomes even more apparent.

I get the point you're making and it makes sense in theory, it's just that it seems for most tasks on a computer the gulf between what is required for a good experience in every day tasks vs what is required for a good experience in gaming is hugely different.

I wouldn't be making this argument at all if it wasn't for my PC. Look at what I've got:
Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.00GHz
24.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050

By any measure that is an ancient PC, and yet for everyday tasks I literally can't imagine how it would be improved at all by better specs. I mean my PC boots up instantly, it is quiet, it loads everything instantly. I don't really know how to improve that experience when it comes to just surfing the web and watching netflix. It's only apparent when I boot up a game.

To go back to your analogy, does an artisan mahogany workdesk serve the function of putting stuff on it better than a DIY desk from ikea? Nicer to look at sure, but the function is still served.

Agree with the rest of your post.

pinky0926 posted...

"Scam" in this thread is hyperbole for "not an investment or wise to spend more for any fiscal reason, but you do you".

Thats like the entire internet lol, not just this topic

pinky0926 posted...

I get the point you're making and it makes sense in theory, it's just that it seems for most tasks on a computer the gulf between what is required for a good experience in every day tasks vs what is required for a good experience in gaming is hugely different.

The argument here is that a PC suitable for casual tasks + gaming console comes out to be about the same price a gaming PC.

Like you can spend 600 on a really fast casual PC and 400 on a gaming console or spend 1000 for one PC that does both.

What's the actual minimum amount you would need to spend to get a good gaming PC that's going to last for let's say 4 - 5 years?

I ask that because I've seen people when they want to bash consoles and say PC gaming is so much better will try to say you can get a good gaming for just a few hundred dollars that's better than any console but when you actually go into a topic where people are picking out components for a gaming PC it's like everybody's saying you need to be spending like $1200 at least.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

What's the actual minimum amount you would need to spend to get a good gaming PC that's going to last for let's say 4 - 5 years?

With extreme bargain hunting you can probably do this for about 500-600 USD. For brand new MSRP, $1200 sounds a little high but not that far off. I'd recommend a prebuilt at lower price points

-The knowledge of building PCs isn't just for gaming. It's for Work. Being able to replace a hard drive, swap cpu,gpu,etc is a skill used for desktop/laptop deployment for business. Good Knowledge to have.

-The advantage of building pc means that you can repair every single part of your machine. That means there is no risk of hardware failure on your device. You will have warranty every thing you buy.

it's not really true that you need to spent 1,000+ dollars on a PC. It ultimately depends on the monitor that you have, and the games that you want. I spent 300-400 dollars for budget PCs that let me play most modern games without issues. Because I haven't gotten chance to play everything in teh past generations. I don't need to play everything AAA game that comes out. Low-end pc gaming is just legitmate as high-end pc gaming. There is nobody telling you a right or wrong way of building a pc.

You can literally slap low power gpus on old business desktop towers and turn them into a gaming pc if you wanted to.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I love people like yourself who just open a topic, don't read any of the posts and then type nonsense that was already talked about.

The expensive stuff is for 4k res and high fps gaming

Tyranthraxus posted...

With extreme bargain hunting you can probably do this for about 500-600 USD. For brand new MSRP, $1200 sounds a little high but not that far off. I'd recommend a prebuilt at lower price points

Okay, let me be more specific.

If I already have the monitor and keyboard/mouse
Something that's not going to require a lot of hunting around and/or getting lucky with deals
Something where I won't have to spend a bunch of time resolving hardware conflicts or getting the right drivers or anything like that
Something that's going to have a decent warranty (let's say matching or close to matching the 1 year warranty on a Switch) if I get defective components
Something that can be expected to play all or nearly all games that come out in the next 4 - 5 years at like 1080p (or maybe occasionally 720p if it's a demanding game) and around 60fps and I'm not looking upgrade any of the components during that time

What would I most likely be looking at in terms of cost?

UnsteadyOwl posted...

What would I most likely be looking at in terms of cost?

https://us-store.msi.com/Desktops/gaming-pcs/Codex-R-13NUC5-087US

That should be your maximum price. If you can't put together parts for cheaper than that machine, you should just buy that machine.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

What would I most likely be looking at in terms of cost?

If you're going with new parts, most components have 2 year warranty.
For $1000 you can get a solid rig.

There are also a lot of well-off people who constantly upgrade their stuff and then sell their old components. Obviously you can always get unlucky and buy something that breaks, but if you're willing to go with used parts, you could either lower the price by like 20-30% or get a very good rig for the same money.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

Okay, let me be more specific.

If I already have the monitor and keyboard/mouse
Something that's not going to require a lot of hunting around and/or getting lucky with deals
Something where I won't have to spend a bunch of time resolving hardware conflicts or getting the right drivers or anything like that
Something that's going to have a decent warranty (let's say matching or close to matching the 1 year warranty on a Switch) if I get defective components
Something that can be expected to play all or nearly all games that come out in the next 4 - 5 years at like 1080p (or maybe occasionally 720p if it's a demanding game) and around 60fps and I'm not looking upgrade any of the components during that time

What would I most likely be looking at in terms of cost?

At 1080/720 60fps probably around $300ish.

pinky0926 posted...

+ PC gaming is more cost effective than buying a console
- A console is around 500 and don't even talk about building a PC this cheap, that's a waste of money and time

The true cost of a console includes a subscription fee, to get features that PC has for free, that quickly makes them more expensive than PCs

Tyranthraxus posted...

https://us-store.msi.com/Desktops/gaming-pcs/Codex-R-13NUC5-087US

That should be your maximum price. If you can't put together parts for cheaper than that machine, you should just buy that machine.

GunmaN1905 posted...

If you're going with new parts, most components have 2 year warranty.
For $1000 you can get a solid rig.

There are also a lot of well-off people who constantly upgrade their stuff and then sell their old components. Obviously you can always get unlucky and buy something that breaks, but if you're willing to go with used parts, you could either lower the price by like 20-30% or get a very good rig for the same money.

Okay. Thank you for the reasonable answers. That gives me a good idea.

And, yeah, I don't think I'd be willing to chance it with used parts unless it's from some seller that's willing to give me a guarantee on them.

The scammiest thing to me is probably the propensity of pre-built sellers to cram shitty PSUs into their rigs to save on cost and then not tell you about it.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

The scammiest thing to me is probably the propensity of pre-built sellers to cram shitty PSUs into their rigs to save on cost and then not tell you about it.

Yeah.
Everyone should avoid prebuilts at all costs.

Just go to PC board and ask for help.
List your budget and preferences and you'll get the best possible deal put together for you.

Wow i used to think pinky was a boring user, but damn hes been making some funny ass topics lately. This is why i come to CE

GunmaN1905 posted...

Yeah.
Everyone should avoid prebuilts at all costs.

Just go to PC board and ask for help.
List your budget and preferences and you'll get the best possible deal put together for you.

Someone in this topic recommended to me a prebuilt.

You see why this shit's confusing? People are telling you all kinds of different things.

Not all prebuilts are the same, and this honestly isn't a very complicated topic and feels like lazy early 2010s trolling. Google search decent GPUs, CPUs, get a motherboard that matches the CPU chipset, buy 16-32 GB of RAM, and check the reviews of PSUs to make sure it's not some extremely cheap bullshit with high failure rates. Don't want to do that then ask the nerds on the PC board for parts suggestion with a budget

Problem solved

UnsteadyOwl posted...

Someone in this topic recommended to me a prebuilt.

You see why this shit's confusing? People are telling you all kinds of different things.

"Avoid prebuilts" is based on old info back when pre built machines were notorious for price gouging. There is still price gouging but only at higher end stuff like the $3000+ range.

Cheaper prebuilts are fine as long as you know the parts that go into them. They are occasionally more economical than building yourself.

Tyranthraxus posted...

The argument here is that a PC suitable for casual tasks + gaming console comes out to be about the same price a gaming PC.

Like you can spend 600 on a really fast casual PC and 400 on a gaming console or spend 1000 for one PC that does both.

I think this is where it becomes not worth it for a lot of people. Do you need a $600 PC for non gaming tasks? Some people obviously will, but I wonder how many. I've bought a console this year for the first time in a while and use that for gaming (I don't play a huge number of games, so a few a year will do for me), and I don't know that I've turned my PC on in 2024. My smartphone is great for anything that would have been casual PC usage, and I've got a laptop from my employer for work. Outside of PC gamers, a lot of people I know have a laptop or tablet or just a smartphone. I think there just isn't a need for PCs for most people in the way that there was.

Its like people who mod their cars. None of it is needed to drive to the store but thats not the point.

GBH713 posted...

I think this is where it becomes not worth it for a lot of people. Do you need a $600 PC for non gaming tasks? Some people obviously will, but I wonder how many. I've bought a console this year for the first time in a while and use that for gaming (I don't play a huge number of games, so a few a year will do for me), and I don't know that I've turned my PC on in 2024. My smartphone is great for anything that would have been casual PC usage, and I've got a laptop from my employer for work. Outside of PC gamers, a lot of people I know have a laptop or tablet or just a smartphone. I think there just isn't a need for PCs for most people in the way that there was.

I'd say nobody truly needs a $600 pc for regular stuff but people often spend more anyway on stuff like MacBooks because what you're really paying for is not power but a better experience. Like aluminum chassis on laptops is objectively inferior to plastic but it "feels nicer" so people pay a premium for it.

Paying a little extra money to get something that makes you happier while doing common tasks is never a waste of money.

Tyranthraxus posted...

"Avoid prebuilts" is based on old info back when pre built machines were notorious for price gouging. There is still price gouging but only at higher end stuff like the $3000+ range.

Cheaper prebuilts are fine as long as you know the parts that go into them. They are occasionally more economical than building yourself.

Okay, that makes sense. Thanks.

It's not a scam. Even starting from scratch you can build a rig that would be comparable to the PS5 and Series X that would be cheaper than buying the two consoles separately, and given that many games are exclusive to one or the other now, PC will have the largest library

dude if you don't want to buy a pc then don't buy one

pinky0926 posted...

I wouldn't be making this argument at all if it wasn't for my PC. Look at what I've got:
Intel Core i7 4790K @ 4.00GHz
24.0GB Dual-Channel DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050

This isn't dissimilar to my previous PC which with a 1660ti is generally capable of playing newer games at 1080p still, and it's perfect for other tasks still

I mean something like this which has an upgrade path would run better than a series s and be able to play the sony games that have been ported to steam:

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/fkLbxH

Even cheaper if you have components you can reuse like the PSU or case, or look out for some used hardware even.

I wouldn't say it's a scam. I built mine for 2k but mainly so I didn't have to upgrade for a long time

People do kind of forget that, building a PC for gaming, even if it's just going to be used primarily for gaming, is still a more long-term investment in the grand scheme of things, as that person will be able to usually go through a number of console generations before having to upgrade any parts (if at all).

Also, remember, if that person also wants to, there's a huge backlog of various games that have been released on PC one can grab and MAYBE have to tinker with to get to playability, if so inclined.

And on top of being much easier to multi-task with other stuff, too.

Due to the above and how most games are going on PC at the same time as consoles, it's why I went all-in on PC gaming and don't have any of the recent consoles.

UnsteadyOwl posted...

What's the actual minimum amount you would need to spend to get a good gaming PC that's going to last for let's say 4 - 5 years?

I ask that because I've seen people when they want to bash consoles and say PC gaming is so much better will try to say you can get a good gaming for just a few hundred dollars that's better than any console but when you actually go into a topic where people are picking out components for a gaming PC it's like everybody's saying you need to be spending like $1200 at least.

Yeah.
I want to move to PC gaming b/c Sony went to shit (Xbox always was) and Nintendo doesn't get / can't handle lots of games.
I don't give a single flying fuck about super high resolution or high FPS (steady 30 or 60 is fine), I don't play resource hog AAA western games for the most part...
I just want something that will play games and not need to be replaced for 8-10 years.
But the "community" is geared towards "oh, with this rig you can do all these neat lighting effects...." like dude, I don't fucking care.