Current Events > I'm not super ok with late term abortions

(+) Yeah! (+)

A few people on these boards agree that women should be allowed abortion anytime up to the actual birth itself.

Arguing that something should be permitted is not the same as believing that it happens as wantonly as "using it as birth control" or with any frequency as to justify restrictions on it. Especially when those restrictions exist purely to make it to where the only way it is legal is if the patient is bleeding out on a table instead of as any preventative action to further complications

DnDer posted...

I don't think I knew this one. I'm a new kind of angry I didn't think I could be now.

That can't be helped, though, right?

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Cant laws just place to no late terms abortions except for medical reasons be a thing?

You'd think so, but Republicans have decided on state after state that there can't be exceptions. Not for rape or incest or sometimes even the health of the mother.

And in at least one case in Texas, they're forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term even though it will live a short and agonizing life before going through a prolonged and agonizing death.

So, sure, we could have laws that say only doctor-approved abortions are the only late-term abortions available, but Republicans have constantly demonstrated their desire for bans was never about protecting a woman, the fetus, or either of their health.

Xenogears15 posted...

I'd rather they not. Should still be allowed to get an abortion at any time.

I feel like adding it would help sway the on the fence religious voters. I also feel like they shouldnt be able to jail people or waste investigations on medical people on it to try disprove if it was really a "major" medical complication especially if the patient and doctor were in agreement.

DnDer posted...

You'd think so, but Republicans have decided on state after state that there can't be exceptions. Not for rape or incest or sometimes even the health of the mother.

And in at least one case in Texas, they're forcing a woman to carry a fetus to term even though it will live a short and agonizing life before going through a prolonged and agonizing death.

So, sure, we could have laws that say only doctor-approved abortions are the only late-term abortions available, but Republicans have constantly demonstrated their desire for bans was never about protecting a woman, the fetus, or either of their health.

And even if they permit it they will require the mother to he bleeding out on the table first.

Tenlaar posted...

Why do you think women should be stripped of bodily autonomy?

Why do you think abortion should be used and encouraged in late term pregnancy as birth control?

DnDer posted...

Do you have the first idea why a woman would even need that option legal and available to her?

I know you've been around the boards long enough to have seen any number of abortion topics. Did you ever bother engaging with any of them?

Certainly, complications with pregnancies especially life threatening ones for the mother might necessitate abortions.

Generally though I've learned that engaging with a topic like abortion means you must wholeheartedly support and agree with right to abort at any time, even if you use stupid hypotheticals that don't occur in real life like after waters break etc or labour contractions itself. People rightly say those examples are stupid. But then they add "shuld still be allowed."

GranAures posted...

Arguing that something should be permitted is not the same as believing that it happens as wantonly as "using it as birth control" or with any frequency as to justify restrictions on it.

I'm not sure what you mean. It shouldn't be used or encouraged as birth control, but it needs to be an option on the table in other situations. I don't think you read the rest of my post earlier.

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

Cant laws just place to no late terms abortions except for medical reasons be a thing?

The issue with that is that it puts the burden on the pregnant person to prove their medical reason is valid and that could take a significant amount of time they may not have creating more risk. If there was some wave of people getting late term abortions for no reason than just because they changed their minds (this doesn't happen but I'll grant the hypothetical) that might be worth looking into but for now putting that burden on the pregnant person overwhelming hurts those that really need an abortion.

End of the day though it's really just no one else's fucking business except for the pregnant person and the doctor performing the procedure

FLAMING_EVIL_HOMER posted...

I feel like adding it would help sway the on the fence religious voters. I also feel like they shouldnt be able to jail people or waste investigations on medical people on it to try disprove if it was really a "major" medical complication especially if the patient and doctor were in agreement.

The religious voters weren't going to vote for any abortions anyway. The fence sitters can never be counted on. And Dems have been pretty consistent with being pro-abortion in all circumstances. Diluting that messaging now helps no one.

As long as voters have the choice between no abortions or abortions in every case then we know which side will win. If the GOP ever gets smart and is able to tweak their message with limits to abortion then we may need to revisit this particular portion of the battle, but for now it helps no one.

Why do you think abortion should be used and encouraged in late term pregnancy as birth control?

Not what is being supported or encouraged by anybody
But you know it's a strawman to attack a procedure you disagree with so you need to pretend anybody believes a woman is waiting until the last minute for "birth control."

GranAures posted...

Not what is being supported or encouraged by anybody
But you know it's a strawman

Nope, going to stop you right there. It's not a strawman. You'll have to accept that not everyone is for what is being specifically discussed in this topic, late term abortions, being a free for all. Earlier abortions aren't relevant here. Abortions for rape, incest, medical complications, etc, no one here is disagreeing with. So those aren't factors.

Pretending that 'discussing the viability of a law to stop silly rare exceptions is a smokescreen to demonize and shame and hinder all abortions ever' isn't discussing the issue at all. Stop creating an abortion bogeyman in this topic when there isn't one here for you.

Sega9599 posted...

Why do you think abortion should be used and encouraged in late term pregnancy as birth control?

I don't and that is miles away from anything I have said. Now since I answered your deflection question, would you like to answer my question?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Why does it say I said that

Smackems posted...

But I think if I wanna be able to say "my body my choice" for everything else, I have to just let it go

Do you think this makes me a dumb?

I think what makes this dumb is entertaining late term abortions are common practice to begin.

Woman are not just comically waiting until late pregnancy to wake up one morning to be like, "nah, you know what, I don't want this thing anymore." So let's stop acting like this is a thing to worry about.

LightningThief posted...

I think what makes this dumb is entertaining late term abortions are common practice to begin.

Woman are not just comically waiting until late pregnancy to wake up one morning to be like, "nah, you know what, I don't want this thing anymore." So let's stop acting like this is a thing to worry about.

I'm not worrying about it

Naysaspace posted...

Classic ad hominem / "you just dont get it" rather than accepting that someone has different values. Siiiigh

Considering "late term abortions" isn't even a medical term, it's obvious that some people are simply unaware of the fact that it's a phrase that was created to shame people away from abortions.
It's completely legit to question if someone knows what it means when they use this phrase.

LightHawKnight posted...

Why do the right think late term abortions are a common thing?

Because they keep being told that they are by the politicians they elect and the politicians they elect keep telling them it is a thing.

Naysaspace posted...

Classic ad hominem / "you just dont get it" rather than accepting that someone has different values. Siiiigh

Why do you choose to stay ignorant; to keep your hateful beliefs?

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Got ya. No prob

Seeing as the overwhelming amount of late term abortions are due to things like miscarriages to the point that everything else is a rounding error in scope what exactly is your point? The obvious implication?

I'd have a serious issue if they were occuring at that stage purely due to choice, but that's not usually the case, and even when I was at my most anti-abortion I never had an issue with ones done out of medical necessity. Nor can I see why anyone would, I mean, "necessity" is kinda right there in the term.

ellis123 posted...

Seeing as the overwhelming amount of late term abortions are due to things like miscarriages to the point that everything else is a rounding error in scope what exactly is your point? The obvious implication?

Me? There wasn't a point

ellis123 posted...

Seeing as the overwhelming amount of late term abortions are due to things like miscarriages to the point that everything else is a rounding error in scope what exactly is your point? The obvious implication?

There's a disturbing number of posters in this topic (and Americans in general) who believe that the number of women who are willing to go through 6-8 months of pregnancy - and all the morning sickness, physical strain, mood swings, lifestyle restrictions, and ever-growing instinctual attachment to the life they're nurturing that entails - just to say 'lol I changed my mind' at the finish line is remotely significant enough to dictate abortion policy.

Smackems posted...

Me? There wasn't a point

Then why make a post that has the obvious implication of wanting to see women die or become mutilated due to not getting the proper medical care? It comes across as sociopathic.

ellis123 posted...

Then why make a post that has the obvious implication of wanting to see women die or become mutilated due to not getting the proper medical care? It comes across as sociopathic.

Aren't you just lovely

Smackems posted...

Aren't you just lovely

I'm just saying that that's what you said, and when you were asked if that *really* was the message you were going for you just brushed it off.

ellis123 posted...

I'm just saying that that's what you said, and when you were asked if that *really* was the message you were going for you just brushed it off.

I made this topic to get others' thoughts and see if maybe I was wrong

Is that good enough for you or would you like to dive off of another deep end

Women don't voluntarily have late term abortions most of the time. In almost all cases, they're the result of sudden and massive changes in circumstances, especially for situations where the longterm viability of a child worsens tremendously or when the risk of the mother dying increases vastly.

I get feeling uncomfortable, both of our sets of twins were premies, but the option of late term abortions is needed for if there was a disasterous emergency.

masterpug53 posted...

There's a disturbing number of posters in this topic (and Americans in general) who believe that the number of women who are willing to go through 6-8 months of pregnancy - and all the morning sickness, physical strain, mood swings, lifestyle restrictions, and ever-growing instinctual attachment to the life they're nurturing that entails - just to say 'lol I changed my mind' at the finish line is remotely significant enough to dictate abortion policy.

Right wing propaganda is a hell of a drug.

Smackems posted...

I made this topic to get others' thoughts and see if maybe I was wrong

Is that good enough for you or would you like to dive off of another deep end

Then that was your point. You don't have to be coy about that fact.

And I go with the statistically obvious reverse. There is a famous (in the statistics classroom crowd) study in which a marketing team did a survey about products for a major company. Due to the lack in consistency beyond "are in this park at this time of day" the only definitive data was that there was a 99.95% chance that someone pregnant was a woman. By comparison the chance of late term abortion being used for a medical necessity that would cause extreme health problems for the woman are 99.999%. Thus someone having a late term abortion being for health reasons is more likely than a person being pregnant being a woman statistically speaking.

Hence why most people are extremely against the line you imply: there is no rational reason someone can be against the whole "late term abortion" thing, no one is doing it because of flippant reasons. Saying that you are against it is statistically only valid in one very specific meaning, all other aspects are absolutely nonexistent in reality.

Naysaspace posted...

Classic ad hominem / "you just dont get it" rather than accepting that someone has different values. Siiiigh

When your values being given power would get pregnant women killed and child rape victims forced to carry to term, perhaps your values are not worth accepting.

masterpug53 posted...

There's a disturbing number of posters in this topic (and Americans in general) who believe that the number of women who are willing to go through 6-8 months of pregnancy - and all the morning sickness, physical strain, mood swings, lifestyle restrictions, and ever-growing instinctual attachment to the life they're nurturing that entails - just to say 'lol I changed my mind' at the finish line is remotely significant enough to dictate abortion policy.

That girl in Nebraska a few months back who got one at 38 weeks or whatever because she changed her mind last minute is going to be ammo for the right for years to come.

IMO something like that is unacceptable, but like you said its so rare that it shouldnt affect the law itself for everyone else because one girl waffled.

masterpug53 posted...

There's a disturbing number of posters in this topic (and Americans in general) who believe that the number of women who are willing to go through 6-8 months of pregnancy - and all the morning sickness, physical strain, mood swings, lifestyle restrictions, and ever-growing instinctual attachment to the life they're nurturing that entails - just to say 'lol I changed my mind' at the finish line is remotely significant enough to dictate abortion policy.

It's the same people who will say they don't think 7 year olds should have genital surgery because they played with a doll once. They're against things that only exist in their heads, but they think are epidemics.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I believe so yeah. The one who was arrested with her mother because they did it in the bathroom at basically the last possible moment.

Don't know if TC made this topic in bad faith, but at least he did mention that he has no idea but that it just sounded bad. At least there are many others who happened to help TC out.

Prestoff posted...

Don't know if TC made this topic in bad faith, but at least he did mention that he has no idea but that it just sounded bad. At least there are many others who happened to help TC out.

I'm not here to argue with anyone about it

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Thank you

When I come to ask questions, I'm actually asking questions, and wanted to see some other opinions and examine why I thought the way I do. And I was under the impression that it was happening basically as contraceptive much more. I was wrong

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Yeah this is basically my stance. Im fine with late term abortions if its health related for either the mother or child, but if youre getting back door late term abortion because you changed your mind 8 months in, that seems a bit questionable.

I think If you looked into the stats, you would see that "late term abortions" are only done as a medical necessity. Women are NOT carrying a fetus 8 months and then deciding to abort.

lilORANG posted...

I think If you looked into the stats, you would see that "late term abortions" are only done as a medical necessity. Women are NOT carrying a fetus 8 months and then deciding to abort.

Except thats exactly what happened with the girl me and Asherlee were discussing. Medical necessity had nothing to do with it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Agreed. Well said.

electricbugs2 posted...

Except thats exactly what happened with the girl me and Asherlee were discussing. Medical necessity had nothing to do with it.

That's one case. Nothing to worry about large scale and certainly not something to base policy on.