Poll of the Day > Guy proves BJJ doesn't work by not cooperating

(+) Yeah! (+)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAJ2vt8wUbY

Thought this was pretty funny. Brazilian Jujitsu has its place when you end up on the ground and is very good for that, sure. But the "90% of fights go to the ground" stat is bs, and like any hyper-focused martial art, it hilariously falls apart when the other person doesn't feel like rolling around on the floor. Like, that should be obvious, but for some reason people talk up BJJ like it's the greatest martial art ever w/ such arrogance. Seeing a dude win by just standing there and refusing to drop to the ground until the judge made him (and then still winning by laying on top like a fallen tree log) was great.

Phrasing

Pause.

(Although I am legit amused.)

Kind of like Steven Seagal's martial art that requires someone to attack you in a very specific way for it to work at all

streamofthesky posted...

Seeing a dude win by just standing there and refusing to drop to the ground until the judge made him

This kind of makes him the asshole, though.

It'd be like entering a greco-roman wrestling tournament and refusing to assume the clinch position. Sure, you might be technically right that it would never happen in a "real fight", but you're still a prick.

not really

it just means his opponent isn't good enough to actually move him

if anything the judge is the asshole, because it's not a requirement to drop, the goal is literally to avoid that

He didn't prove anything other than that training helps win a fight.

So... this is pretty stupid. Martial arts are "sports" they have rules to reduce risk of permanent injury. So he showed up without respect for sport and goes "I'm technically not breaking any rules" to be a dick. A tournament isn't a street fight and I'm not feeling particularly impressed watching him use a tournament setting to prove he is better when he refuses to fight by the same sporting standards.

Zareth posted...

Kind of like Steven Seagal's martial art that requires someone to attack you in a very specific way for it to work at all

Isn't that basically every martial arts? Either it assumes that your opponent will stand there and let you perform whatever elaborate moves/counter that they teach you. Or they assume that your opponent will come at you in a very specific way without ever deviating from their initial plan, usually leaving a big opening in the process.

As for the video, I do remember actually seeing that one not long ago. Not really sure how to feel about it. If it's unsportsmanlike, but still works, then I can't help but feel like there is a bigger problem somewhere. Either in the rules/sport itself, or in the contestants.

marthalies posted...

He didn't prove anything other than that training helps win a fight.

BlackScythe0 posted...

So... this is pretty stupid. Martial arts are "sports" they have rules to reduce risk of permanent injury. So he showed up without respect for sport and goes "I'm technically not breaking any rules" to be a dick. A tournament isn't a street fight and I'm not feeling particularly impressed watching him use a tournament setting to prove he is better when he refuses to fight by the same sporting standards.

These.

Also, bear in mind he entered as a low-level fighter and fought another low-level fighter. He clearly has a lot of training in other schools of martial arts, but is a white belt in BJJ. We don't know that his opponent has any other training outside of BJJ. Even if his opponent does have other martial arts skills, we don't know to what extent those skills have been honed. What would've happened if he was paired up with someone more his equal? Someone who has a rounded fighting background who trained specifically to counter his strengths? What would've happened if he squared off against a random BJJ red belt?

The entire premise is disingenuous. This guy proved next to nothing.

Yeah he proved nothing

Metalsonic66 posted...

Yeah he proved nothing

He proved that martial arts for self-defense and for sport are not comparable.

I mean, take a particularly devastating martial art like Taekwondo; You get an extra point just for spinning... why would you add a flourish in a real fight?

Yes he did, he won the tournament with zero training. Some martial arts are just crap that devolved into fancy dances, but in this case, he didn't even have to know the dance.

Lokarin posted...

He proved that martial arts for self-defense and for sport are not comparable.

I mean, take a particularly devastating martial art like Taekwondo; You get an extra point just for spinning... why would you add a flourish in a real fight?

You're not going to see a backwards roundhouse kick to the head coming, and if your opponent is more wary you can just stick to basic punches and blocks. The only way I was able to get points on the blackbelts was to do a fakeout punch.

All I'm saying is at least I'm not rolling around on the ground like an idiot.

Yellow posted...

he won the tournament with zero training.

Nope.

He is an accomplished devotee of karate and trained specifically to counter grappling for this match. Hardly "zero training"

And he won one match. Against a white belt. We don't know how far he went in the tourney. At the end of the vid he's handed a medal and shakes some dudes hand but that could've been staged with a prop medal. Did he offer any information about the tournament or is there a results board that he shared?

FYI MMA has proven most established forms of traditional martial arts don't actually work in a real fight.

"Real Fight" being, a fight where the opponent is uncooperative, and not restricting themselves to the same fighting style as you.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

FYI MMA has proven most established forms of traditional martial arts don't actually work in a real fight.

"Real Fight" being, a fight where the opponent is uncooperative, and not restricting themselves to the same fighting style as you.

A lot of the best mma fighters are trained in BJJ so I don't really agree. Anyway, martial arts can absolutely be applied in a street fight. But it's important to go into a street fight knowing it's not in a controlled setting and that you need to be prepared for anything

Metalsonic66 posted...

Yeah he proved nothing

Yeah he did. He proved he's a dumbass

OhhhJa posted...

A lot of the best mma fighters are trained in BJJ so I don't really agree. Anyway, martial arts can absolutely be applied in a street fight. But it's important to go into a street fight knowing it's not in a controlled setting and that you need to be prepared for anything

MMA fighters train in multiple fighting styles, than apply the parts that work. That's the point.

Although a lot of that does end up being grappling.

And even MMA doesn't allow you to hit people in the groin, which technically speaking, falls under the "real fight" scenario, because at the end of the day it still only exists because it can be profited off as entertainment, and they can't have all the fights devolve into the groin hit speedrun.

Every real fight I've ever been in, and I've been in ones of them, involved hits to the groin

ForteEXE3850 posted...

MMA fighters train in multiple fighting styles, than apply the parts that work. That's the point.

Although a lot of that does end up being grappling.

And even MMA doesn't allow you to hit people in the groin, which technically speaking, falls under the "real fight" scenario, because at the end of the day it still only exists because it can be profited off as entertainment, and they can't have all the fights devolve into the groin hit speedrun.

A lot of street fights go to the ground though and someone trained in BJJ definitely has the upper hand on the ground. And yeah, I'd agree it's mostly just important for grappling. But more often than not in mma, the guy with a really good ground/submission game has the upper hand over a good standup striker with poor ground ability

Zareth posted...

Kind of like Steven Seagal's martial art that requires someone to attack you in a very specific way for it to work at all

Aikido
The difference is, people generally don't take that seriously and especially Seagal's version of it (I have seen videos where it does have some merit and good techniques for actual situations) while as BJJ is considered one of the best and most "practical" martial arts. And frankly in an actual self defense scenario, Aikido would probably be slightly less useless than BJJ since at least it's prioritizing avoiding attacks and creating distance so you can run away.

ParanoidObsessive posted...

This kind of makes him the asshole, though.

It'd be like entering a greco-roman wrestling tournament and refusing to assume the clinch position. Sure, you might be technically right that it would never happen in a "real fight", but you're still a prick.

In greco-roman wrestling, if you just stood there as the guy grabbed onto you, he'd have plenty of techniques to take you down to the mat.
It's genuinely difficult for me to think of another martial art where you can go "Luigi wins by doing nothing" and it actually works. Try it in Judo and they have all sorts of throws and takedowns to put you on the mat. Try it in karate and you're a punching bag.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

FYI MMA has proven most established forms of traditional martial arts don't actually work in a real fight.

"Real Fight" being, a fight where the opponent is uncooperative, and not restricting themselves to the same fighting style as you.

ForteEXE3850 posted...

MMA fighters train in multiple fighting styles, than apply the parts that work. That's the point.

Although a lot of that does end up being grappling.

Ironically it's the MMA mindset that's propelled BJJ to such heights of arrogance. MMA is not a real fight. The whole reason BJJ and other grappling arts thrive in MMA is because the rules protect their weaknesses and give them an unfair advantage. You can shoot in on someone with your head lowered to tackle them to the ground w/ the back of your neck and head totally exposed and the other guy can't make you pay for it b/c the rules won't let him.
I agree training in multiple styles is best, and every (legitimate) martial art has things to offer. I'm clowning on BJJ, but it does have its place in self-defense. From the perspective of, "if you end up on the ground, we're going to teach you to not panic and some techniques to get out of a grapple and back to your feet", it's great. When people actually think intentionally going to the ground and grappling in a street fight is a good idea, it's a fucking problem. You absolutely do not want that, then you lose the ability to maneuver and flee, the ability to protect yourself from other attackers, and even your situational awareness of your surroundings.

Looks like the sport needs some updated rules if the optimal way of engaging with it, isn't the way the people in the sport enjoy it.

streamofthesky posted...

The whole reason BJJ and other grappling arts thrive in MMA is because the rules protect their weaknesses and give them an unfair advantage

Being able to actually take someone down and grapple effectively can absolutely help you win a street fight lol. I'd actually say having a good ground game is the most important factor that could save your ass from being pounded to dust. Sure every combat sport is a controlled setting with rules but anyone in the ufc would absolutely annihilate you or me in a street fight too because they are highly trained in multiple martial arts, wrestling, etc

OhhhJa posted...

Yeah he did. He proved he's a dumbass

There ya go

Yeah I didn't notice he only fought a white belt and didn't actually win the tournament, which flips my perspective on the whole thing.

Honestly I don't know anything about the ranks, I just figured he only showed one match because he got tossed out after for being disrespectful and not fighting properly.

BlackScythe0 posted...

Honestly I don't know anything about the ranks, I just figured he only showed one match because he got tossed out after for being disrespectful and not fighting properly.

White belt is given to you the second you enroll. They're total pushovers with no clue how to defend themselves, doesn't matter their size, they don't know how to fight.

He basically took one white belt of a language he dislikes and went "see? the whole language sucks" (because he just barely beat them)

Yeah the dude in the video is either trolling or incredibly dumb and arrogant. I'm gonna go with trolling because he's got a YouTube channel to feed. It's clickbait.

There's no way anyone who takes fighting seriously would dismiss BJJ as ineffective any more than anyone who takes fighting seriously would put all their fighting eggs in one basket and focus on BJJ alone as the only discipline to study to become a well-rounded, professional fighter.

Homeboy seems to have a boner for karate. If you took a grandmaster in karate and a grandmaster who holds high-degree belts in karate and BJJ and staged a no-holds barred fight, my money is on the one who studied BJJ coming out on top.

Which is essentially what this guy does in the video. With his prior knowledge of karate and training, however brief, in BJJ he clearly outclasses the BJJ white belt. The white belt who's trying to fight within the ruleset of the tournament which the YouTuber is completely ignorant of, garnering penalties and warnings for doing dumb shit. Hardly a fair representation of BJJ and not at all an honest depiction of what a fair and even matchup would look like

Just an ignorant take all-around, honestly

Next he'll make a video about how easy soccer is when you simply pick the ball up and throw it into the goal

SilentSeph posted...

Next he'll make a video about how easy soccer is when you simply pick the ball up and throw it into the goal

Lmao

Yellow posted...

White belt is given to you the second you enroll. They're total pushovers with no clue how to defend themselves, doesn't matter their size, they don't know how to fight.

He basically took one white belt of a language he dislikes and went "see? the whole language sucks" (because he just barely beat them)

Ok not gonna argue with the rest of the post but it's a lie to say he barely beat him. Was there any part in that video where thr opponent seemed to have a upper hand?

Was there any part of the video where karate bro had the clear upper hand? Other than disregarding the rules and outright breaking them, all he did was spin out of a couple grabs. He didn't gain the upper hand until the end of the match when he capitalized on his opponent being gassed

OhhhJa posted...

Being able to actually take someone down and grapple effectively can absolutely help you win a street fight lol. I'd actually say having a good ground game is the most important factor that could save your ass from being pounded to dust. Sure every combat sport is a controlled setting with rules but anyone in the ufc would absolutely annihilate you or me in a street fight too because they are highly trained in multiple martial arts, wrestling, etc

If you're sure there's no outside interference happening.
If you're sure the guy you grab and wrestle to the ground doesn't have a knife on him or something.

There's no rules in a street fight, it's unpredictable what threats you might face. Intentionally anchoring yourself to one guy, reducing your visibility of your surroundings, not being able to protect yourself from others to such an extent that they can literally just kick/stomp on you... these are not ideal conditions to put yourself into.
If you can take them down by holding onto an arm lock or such and retain the ability to look around and release the hold to run for it if necessary, it's better. If you're trying to slither onto the other person and get him into a close hold, you're kinda being foolish.\

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Yeah the dude in the video is either trolling or incredibly dumb and arrogant. I'm gonna go with trolling because he's got a YouTube channel to feed. It's clickbait.

Like, obviously it's trolling. Rather harmless though, just made the other guy feel pretty foolish.

There's no way anyone who takes fighting seriously would dismiss BJJ as ineffective any more than anyone who takes fighting seriously would put all their fighting eggs in one basket and focus on BJJ alone as the only discipline to study to become a well-rounded, professional fighter.

Homeboy seems to have a boner for karate. If you took a grandmaster in karate and a grandmaster who holds high-degree belts in karate and BJJ and staged a no-holds barred fight, my money is on the one who studied BJJ coming out on top.

Which is essentially what this guy does in the video. With his prior knowledge of karate and training, however brief, in BJJ he clearly outclasses the BJJ white belt. The white belt who's trying to fight within the ruleset of the tournament which the YouTuber is completely ignorant of, garnering penalties and warnings for doing dumb shit. Hardly a fair representation of BJJ and not at all an honest depiction of what a fair and even matchup would look like

Just an ignorant take all-around, honestly

Where is it "required" and WHY is it required for a BJJ tournament that you agreeably flop to the ground like a professional soccer player?
BJJ is focused on the ground game, why can't it teach people how to do a proper takedown or such to actually get there?
Other martial arts may have katas for practice, wrestling might have starting positions. But no other serious martial art (again, Seagal's version of Aikido is not one) straight up requires an opponent to play along to do anything at all.

SilentSeph posted...

Next he'll make a video about how easy soccer is when you simply pick the ball up and throw it into the goal

Pretty disingenuous comparison. More accurate would be winning at soccer by just standing around, walking casually, and kicking the ball when it comes to you or something.
The equivalent to picking the ball up in soccer would be if he sucker punched the guy trying to lock up w/ him and said, "see how easy it is to beat a BJJ practitioner?"
Being able to defeat someone who's not even trying and being totally passive is a really low fucking bar for a martial art.

streamofthesky posted...

Where is it "required" and WHY is it required for a BJJ tournament that you agreeably flop to the ground like a professional soccer player?

Pretty disingenuous comparison.

I agree that is pretty disingenuous of you to say.

streamofthesky posted...

If you're sure the guy you grab and wrestle to the ground doesn't have a knife on him or something.

Lol well, we're just completely invalidating any fighting methods in general if we're bringing weapons into the equation. But yeah, BJJ isn't very effective against a 12 gauge I'll admit lol

streamofthesky posted...

just made the other guy feel pretty foolish.

No way of knowing how his opponent felt, but even if he made his opponent feel foolish, he accomplished more in making himself look foolish by entering a tournament wholly ignorant of the rules and by being very likely much more accomplished as a karate student than his opponent is as a BJJ student yet still barely eking out a win

Where is it "required" and WHY is it required for a BJJ tournament that you agreeably flop to the ground like a professional soccer player?

... Uh, it's a tournament? All fighting arts competitions have rules. You aren't allowed to go wrestle your opponent into an armbar and submit them in a karate match. BJJ has a different scoring system than karate. Different rules.

He's also trying to prove BJJ is bullshit for streetfighting... in a regulated tournament environment. How do we know that BJJ white belt wouldn't have stomped his ass silly in an actual street fight?

And who is saying BJJ alone is the penultimate fighting discipline? It's simply a tool for the toolset. If you call a plumber and they show up with one pipe wrench and nothing else, they're not a very well-equipped plumber now are they? Same with fighting. The best mix martial artists study striking and grappling.

Dismissing BJJ because he submitted a white belt after failing to fight within the sports ruleset is arrogant and ignorant. Would love to see that dude take on a more well-rounded fighter who holds a comparable level belt as he does

ForteEXE3850 posted...

And even MMA doesn't allow you to hit people in the groin, which technically speaking, falls under the "real fight" scenario, because at the end of the day it still only exists because it can be profited off as entertainment, and they can't have all the fights devolve into the groin hit speedrun.

Maybe not, but if they ever did a bunch of fights of that / countering it, I'd watch for a laugh

MeatiestMeatus posted...

Was there any part of the video where karate bro had the clear upper hand? Other than disregarding the rules and outright breaking them, all he did was spin out of a couple grabs. He didn't gain the upper hand until the end of the match when he capitalized on his opponent being gassed

That's because his whole game plan was to prove bjj doesn't work if you don't cooperate. So yeah all he was doing was trying to stay on his feet. He said the ref got onto him for not engaging. As soon as he did truly engage the match was over shortly after.

MeatiestMeatus posted...

.. Uh, it's a tournament? All fighting arts competitions have rules. You aren't allowed to go wrestle your opponent into an armbar and submit them in a karate match. BJJ has a different scoring system than karate. Different rules

Does seem a bit odd if they can't take you to the ground themselves they can just lay there and you must engage them. If they want the fight to be on the ground maybe it should start on the ground.

Maybe they should adopt a wrestling match style. When I wrestled anyways round 1 started with both opponents standing. Round 2 one opponent started on hands and knees while the other was behind the with hands already on them round 3 same thing but opponents swapped position.

We didnt do any drop down mid match and expect the opponent to come down to where we wanted them. Nah from a standing position if we wanted em on the ground we had to put em on the ground.

Now to be fair I know little about bjj but I had a coworker suggest I get into because as he said bjj is basically wrestling with extra shit added.