Board 8 > Most Evil Fictional Character: Other Mother vs. Johan Liebert

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Welcome to the 2023 edition of Most Evil Fictional Character, a single-elimination tournament to determine the most evil fictional character of all time!

Here's the bracket:

https://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=477621&tclass=

And here's the discussion topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80568652

And here are the rules:

-First and foremost, YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT. The reason for this is that these topics encourage a lot of discussion and debate, and it helps me to distinguish a vote from simple discussion if all votes are bolded. So, I state again, ALL VOTES MUST BE BOLDED FOR THEM TO COUNT. I reserve the right to be lenient in early topics if people just aren't getting it, but for the most part, IF YOUR VOTE ISN'T BOLDED, IT WON'T COUNT.

-You must vote for which of the two characters you honestly believe to be the more evil of the two. You can determine this via any method you like, use your own morals and judgement, read all the arguments made to determine your choice, or however you choose to make your pick, but you must only vote for the one you truly believe is the most evil. This isn't a death battle, or a popularity contest. You're voting ONLY for the most evil character out of the two choices presented.

-While on that subject, remember that because this isn't a death battle or a fighting tournament, do your absolute best to consider the two characters as if their power levels were equal (either the weaker character brought up to the level of the strongest, or vice versa, or both if you want to consider both possibilities). Therefore, just because, for example, one of the characters blew up a planet and the other one merely kicked a puppy, doesn't necessarily mean the planet killer is more evil than the puppy kicker. Consider the characters as if they have the exact same capabilities and what they might do in that scenario.

-You can make any arguments, debates, etc. you want in this topic. Discussion is STRONGLY encouraged, a fun debate about which of the two characters is most evil is exactly what these topics are for. Just don't make it personal, no insults or flaming, keep things civil even if you disagree. Also, no vote rallying, if you want to encourage people to vote for your character you need to at least make some semblance of an argument as to why, even if it's just "Character X did (really dastardly thing), I can't believe no one's voting for them!"

-Voting will continue for 24 hours. If there's a tie, there will be a new 24 hour topic. This will continue indefinitely until winner is determined.

-YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT.

-

The following write-ups will contain untagged SPOILERS for Coraline and Monster.

OTHER MOTHER

Other Mother is the primary antagonist in the film and novel Coraline.

Other Mother, also known as the Beldam, is a powerful and malevolent witch/fey creature and the ruler of the Other World, accessed through a small door in the Pink Palace. She lures children into her realm by disguising herself as their "Other Mother" and creating beautiful things that appear to make her worlds living greatly surpass their real worlds living. Once lured, she sews buttons in their eyes which tethers them to her world, then consumes their flesh for strength, and keeps their souls as her prisoners. She is the arch-enemy of Coraline Jones, whom she tries to lure in, consume for more strength, and imprison the soul of as her fourth victim. When her true nature is revealed, she instantly drops her loving maternal figure and becomes a cruel and authoritarian figure who is determined to do anything to consume her victims' flesh and trap their souls, no matter how twisted and sadistic these measures are. This includes torturing her creations, especially those who genuinely care for the Beldam's victims (i.e. Other Wybie and Other Father), so that they could be driven to do things against their will, such as harming innocent children. She punishes her creations who are unwilling to harm others by mutilating and killing them. Her sadism comes to its fullest effect when she gouges out her victims' eyes, sews buttons over it without anesthesia and consumes their flesh and souls until they become empty ghost-like shells. Though she has no qualms in relishing in savagery, the Beldam chooses to maintain her charisma by disparaging her victims in a sweet and motherly tone and an extremely condescending and sarcastic manner. Her twisted love is much more emphasized in the novel, where Coraline briefly gets Stockholm Syndrome by sympathizing (at the very slightest) and allowing her to care for her as if she were her daughter. It is very parasitic and she sees them as nothing but objects and pets, who are ready to be discarded if they "bore" her. Her self-centered love is eventually what causes her downfall as she seeks to destroy everything, including the world that she rules over, until she could get what she wants - Coraline's life for a meal and her soul for a prisoner. To somehow prove that her "love" is all that her victims need, the Beldam convinces them that their parents have neglected and abandoned them and even induces hallucinations of this occurring.

vs.

JOHAN LIEBERT

Johan Liebert is the primary antagonist of the anime and manga Monster.

Johan Liebert is a ruthless, emotionless, and psychopathic serial killer whose life was saved by Kenzo Tenma as a child. He is also the older twin of his sister Nina Fortner. Johan has stated that his one true goal is to be the last one alive when the world endsbut upon rediscovering a children's book that appeared to play a major role in his past, he instead set his mind on committing the "perfect suicide", i.e. dying without leaving behind any evidence of his existence (with the possible exception of Dr. Tenma's memories of him, in order to destroy Tenma's faith in humanity). His wanton cruelty and depthless malice do not appear to be humanized by traits or drives such as hatred, vengeance, lust, a point to prove, or even sadism; being fully aware of his nature and devoid of any need to justify himself, his actions are about as reasonless, emotionless, and nihilistic as he isthus possibly rendering his evil as literally pure and undiluted as can be, given his lack of any discernible gain from it or even a consistent identity. It is perhaps for this reason that he earns such condemnations as monster, devil, vampire, alienand for which Schuwald claims to have seen Hell itself in his eyes. The clear psychopathic tendencies he exhibits as a childalong with the hellish fate he inflicts upon the child-experimenting orphanage Kinderheim 511, even prior to most of his past traumasclearly prove that he is far from a victim of circumstance, given the premeditated and calculated murders of his foster families; a former director of said orphanage, Hartmann, admits himself that not even such an inhumane place could have crafted a "masterpiece" like Johan. His most consistent belief is that all life is insignificant, equal only in death. He possesses an equal capacity for psychological torture and can persuade nearly anybody to kill either others or themselves; whenever possible, however, Johan will subject his victims to the worst possible suffering and loss rather than killing them himself, which often drives them to suicide anyhowsuch as when he forces Helmut Wolf to watch his wife, children, and many friends and acquaintances all die one after the other, reducing him to a broken and paranoid wretch, despite he and Anna having been saved by Wolf from a near-death experience. Johan has expressed a similar lack of gratitude to Dr. Tenma, who had also saved his life, by poisoning his boss and coworkers, thereby framing Tenma for the murders due to his severe demotion prior to this.

Other Mother for now

My issue with Other Mother is that supernatural creatures harming humans never feels as evil as humans harming humans.

Pretty tough call as Other Mother is a little weird to weigh given her goals and nature. She wants "something to love that isn't herself" which is apparently genuine and she does put work in to make her (future) victims happy when technically she doesn't need to. However she eventually gets bored, ditches em, and puts them on the menu but that is for sustenance from what I looked up on it. The ghost thing does throw a wrench into things though. She feels sorta IT esque only "nicer" (I don't know if the novel is different about this).

It's weird pairing Johan up against her on the eating kids angle as while eating kids is fucked up, its a sustenance thing for her from what I understand and Johan wouldn't require that (plus y'know she's a spider monster so wouldn't really see it the same way).

Still, while Johan has some of his own flaws on the evil chart, he feels generally and more personally evil. Plus he literally gives no shits and just kills for no reason unlike the Bedlam who at least initially wants love. Johan also has no problem offing a kid for little reason either.

Johan Liebert

KamikazePotato posted...

My issue with Other Mother is that supernatural creatures harming humans never feels as evil as humans harming humans.

That's always where I fall too. Evil acts, for sure, but when you're dealing with creatures so far divorced from humanity it can start veering into "person stepping on an ant" territory.

Johan