Board 8 > ~FIGHT!~ Bomberman, Cao Cao and Tron Bonne vs.Glory, Lucas and Ryu

(+) Yeah! (+)

Bomberman, Cao Cao and Tron Bonne have challenged Glory, Lucas and Ryu to a fight! Location of the fight: Sunflower Fields - A seemingly endless expanse of sunflowers overlooking a large cliff, as it appears in Chapter 6 of Mother 3. Falling off of the cliff is considered out of bounds. Only what is seen in Mother 3 can be accessed. Attackers begin at the cliff at the end of the chapter while defenders begin where Lucas wakes up. Which side will win?

Guidelines

-The fight will occur in real-time (like an FMV sequence). Gameplay mechanics are less important than how the characters would function in a real-time environment.
-The members of each team are ideal teammates capable of executing a prearranged battle plan.
-Unless stated otherwise, characters have access to their full arsenal of abilities and equipment. They may not always work at full power, however (e.g. a petrifying spell may have only a partial hindering effect not seen in gameplay or even fail outright against sufficiently powerful mercenaries). Use your own discretion.
-No mercenary can ever start in a location where they would die instantly, destroy the arena merely by existing in it, or end up ringed out of the terrain before abilities. If there's no room within a terrain to fit them, the terrain will stretch out until there's at least one yard of available, moving, safe space. Attacks may not damage the terrain enough to cause automatic deaths or ring-outs, save with a concerted effort.
-Mercenaries are considered 'downed' when defeated, unable to be roused except through a revival technique. A revival technique cannot affect a mercenary whose physical body has been completely destroyed and will not relocate them away from danger (ex. falling off of the terrain, being impaled, falling in lava), unless it would naturally do so in its own universe.
-There may be SPOILERS from all of the games the characters are from.

Rules for Voting

-Bold your votes.
-You do not need to require justification for your vote, though the admins reserve the right to disqualify votes in the advent of obvious alt voting and other similar scenarios.
-Leaders cannot vote for their own teams, but they are free to argue their case.
-If you want to switch your votes simply bold the change; there's no need to delete your post, though you may if you wish.
-This match will end in 24 hours.

Cao Cao is as he appears in the Dynasty Warriors series, with any additional moves from the Warriors Orochi series. He is equipped with the Purgatory Blade, Divine Justice, and Eagle Wing. He starts with full musou and has completed all appropriate skill trees.

Tron Bonne is as she appears in The Misadventures of Tron Bonne, piloting the Gustaff, which is equipped with all its weapons, may swap between them freely, and may swap to alternative modes at will. She is accompanied by six Servbots, which she may command as she wishes and which will be immune to all damage (though they can be knocked out and knocked around). She has access to all of her Marvel vs Capcom series movesets, as well as all her moves from relevant fights in the Mega Man Legend series. She may not exit the Gustaff at any point in the match.

Bomberman is as he appears across the Bomberman series (save for Bomberman: Act Zero), with his maximum possible bomb count and firepower, as well as remote bomb detonation. He has access to his elemental bomb varieties from Bomberman: The Second Attack, save for Shadow bombs. He may swap to his Bomber Copter ability and Bomber Marine form at any time.

~VS~

Lucas is as he appears in Mother 3. He has access to all of his PSI, though PK Flash will only cause Crying, or Paralysis if the target is already crying. He is equipped with the Real Bat, Awesome Cloak, Red Hat, Awesome Ring, and Franklin Badge.

Ryu is as he appears in the Street Fighter series, with access to all of his moves from the Street Fighter series other than gameplay mechanics (though Minds Eye may still perfect parry). He starts the battle with full resources.

Glory is as she is seen in the endgame of Shadowrun: Dragonfall with access to both sides of her upgrade tree. She also has the healing abilities bestowed by the purified Heart of Feuerstelle. Her healing will not necessarily only heal someone's most recent wound, and her trauma kits and adrenal pump will not necessarily revive any units swiftly (or, potentially, at all).

Team Bomberman's argument:

Hey everybody! It's been a while since we had a mercs match. I hope you enjoy! :)

So to start off, this terrain is a phenomenal locale for Bomberman to work with. The sunflower fields cover the ground pretty completely, making it easy for him to lay down traps for unprepared enemies to step on. If the fight goes long, times is on our side, because it's a question of when the enemy team will get blindsided by pre-prepared bombs, not when.

Besides that, Cao Cao and Tron are in their element too. Not only do they have a new minion they can command at will, the enemy team is ill-suited to fighting them. Freezing AoE is very useful against melee heavy opposition, and none of the enemies are prepared to deal with getting shot at by hi-tech machineguns or a bazooka, nor do they have the firepower to defeat Tron. All we have to do is bring the fight to the enemy team, then gradually perform a fighting retreat into the bomb fields we've laid down. Forced to pursue, Team Ryu won't have much chance of avoiding the explosions, which will open them up to getting sliced and diced by Cao Cao's shadow clones or frozen by him, and finished off by Tron's explosives. And if they ever get distracted, death can rain from above and ruin their day, like so:

https://youtu.be/EaCsMc5lAcQ?si=DXQalDGUf3umn0wX&t=1928

All in all, this battle shouldn't be too difficult. We've got the power and AoE advantage on our side. All we have to do is make good use of it to seal the deal!

Team Ryu's argument:

Ah, at last! A new challenger!

So let's get the obvious out of the way first: buffs. Between Glory and Lucas, we have a huge buff advantage. 40% extra damage via Offense Up. 40% extra defense via Defense Up. Both of those permanently, mind. Tons of healing, both regenerative and burst. Damage halving that stacks with the aforementioned defensive buff, and it bounces half the base damage that would've happened back to the attacker. Two, count em, two sources of revival. Armor shredding attacks, to neuter the Gustaff's beefiness. A major league haste buff for Glory to use upon herself. The enemy team isn't just fighting stronger opposition, they're fighting a group that has incredible grind game, and can push way past its own limits. A protracted battle is only going to get worse and worse for the enemy team as time goes on, as the damage they dish out doesn't stick, and the damage they take does.

And then there's Ryu. How's anyone going to deal with this beast of a man? SF5 and SF6 were a huge glowup for him. Having mastered the Power of Nothingness, he's closer to his badass teacher Gouken (capable of fighting Akuma on fairly even keel) than he is to the olden days when he just shouted bitcrushed 'HADOUKEN's and tried to zone. Once upon a time, succumbing to the Satsui no Hadou made bullets literally bounce off him. These days, he's surpassed that kind of strength, and gained new levels of power all their own. His hadokens split the flow of entire waterfalls for several seconds at a time, crush earth and stone, and his blows were strong enough to defeat Seth and M Bison. He's as good as good gets...and then cranked up due to those buffs. Odds are good he's going to absolutely rip the enemy team's frontline apart after being enabled, allowing Lucas to focus on support (and perhaps a nasty PK Love Omega when the time is right to seal the deal), and giving Glory a chance to dance from frontline to backline, shooting people down with her armour-piercing Ruger Super Warhawk or tearing them to bits with her razor arms after applying even more healing.

The strategy here is pretty simple: punch a hole through the enemy frontline, then wrap things up in a flash when Tron is gone. And with the sheer power differential on our side, there's no doubts we'll make this happen. These fools couldn't defeat Sheng Long, and so they don't stand a chance!

I think this hinges on how well Ryu can deal with Cao and Tron given Glory and Lucas are much better support. Bomberman has firepower but no healing and is kind of brittle

bomberman also doesnt have a stipulation keeping him from hurting his allies which makes it extremely hard for him to help without hindering

but bombermans bombs might also just light the entire field on fire in which case everyone but tron burns to death

Chaeix posted...

I think this hinges on how well Ryu can deal with Cao and Tron given Glory and Lucas are much better support. Bomberman has firepower but no healing and is kind of brittle

bomberman also doesnt have a stipulation keeping him from hurting his allies which makes it extremely hard for him to help without hindering

but bombermans bombs might also just light the entire field on fire in which case everyone but tron burns to death

Lighting the field on fire seems extremely possible (he does have napalm style bombs) but whether it'd stay on fire is way more questionable, given that Cao Cao's attacks are ice based and Ryu's hadokens cause gale forces, like so:

https://youtu.be/M_DoIuioqiE?t=147

https://youtu.be/4-vWfUg-gz4?t=110

If anything, freeezing the sunflower field might be more practical. Makes it harder to move, and turns it into a zoning fight Tron can possibly take advantage of.

I'd like to note that Glory is absolutely used to going up against mechanical bullshit, coming from a cyberpunk world and whatnot. She can't 1v1 Cao Cao, but I think she's a big threat to Tron with buffs and how fast she moves.

Cao is honestly the lynchpin here imo. I trust that with his tactics and AMBITION that he'll command Bomberman well to avoid friendly fire. If Ryu can get through and take him out, it looks really bad for team Bomberman.

The sunflower fields also would help hide both servbots and bombs very well for surprise ambushes and detonations (even carrying Bomberman's remote bombs and just suicide bombing, they do things like that all the time in MML/2/MoTB), and both Tron and Cao Cao are smart and treacherous enough to think of that. Cao can keep himself and his team safe from any ensuing fires too, and Bomberman can also slow time with his light bombs that keep up a damaging sphere of light for around 5+ seconds.

How is Tron's range? They don't start that close together here, so if she can't stop Lucas from getting off his buffs, it's going to get bad for them, especially if he gets off a Shield Omega.

Team buffed Ryu

I think that Ryu is in a tier with Tronn and Cao Cao in this match when in his base form, but with the buffs he will get in this match he's going to be too beefy and with extra armor pen. Ryu > Cao Cao >= Tronn, give or take in terms of overall rank.

Tronn Bonn is very beefy, but he's not particularly quick and I think Ryu will be able to dodge most of Tronn's offense. Cao Cao's freezing arrows can slow him down, but between his backup, dodging, and healing, i think he'll be positioned well.

The best strategy for Cao's team is probably to try to have Cao Cao 1v1 Ryu and slow him down with freezing arrows, shadow clones while Bomberman and Tronn rush Lucas; but I think that Lucas is actually fairly tanky and won't just fold to the first Bomberman bomb - at least based on what I'm reading. and with help from Glory, I don't think Lucas goes down instantly.

Ryu is just too mobile for the other team to take him down when he's buffed is what this boils down to. Willing to change my vote pending future arguments tho!

How long can one of Bomberman's bombs remain un-exploded? Does he have any remote detonation options or things with a very long timer?

I think SuperBuff, Potentially Reviving Ryu is far, FAR beyond anyone's paygrade. Cao Cao has a chance to duel pretty decently, but his reaction speed is already beneath Ryu's, and his damage output would pale compared to "easily splits a waterfall", especially after buffs. Tron's gattling and bazooka are decent midrange options, and certainly I take a gatling gun over a child, but she could only really mow down one of Lucas or Glory with focused fire, leaving the other free to damage her.

However, if Bomberman can use the Servbots to essentially force Team Ryu to approach, there IS a very large cliff behind them. That is lethal enough to actually score a kill, but it's contingent on Ryu's team being the one who needs to approach, which is unlikely when they can just camp out and buff and Lucas knows "hey there's a cliff there." If there's a theoretical situation where Cao Cao can make a line in the flowers, and then the Servbots burn the other half of the flower field to force an advance, I think that the collateral from Bomberman's knockback will be able to rattle pretty much everyone but Tron in a very unfavorable position. That is, however, entirely a question of how feasible that is with Bomberman's bomb variants.

Mewtwo59 posted...

How is Tron's range? They don't start that close together here, so if she can't stop Lucas from getting off his buffs, it's going to get bad for them, especially if he gets off a Shield Omega.

Depends on the weaponry. Her bazooka is relatively short range (it falls to the ground after a certain distance IIRC), her gatling and search cannon have longer range, and in the Search Cannon's case, some tracking. I wanna say maybe 20-30 yards for the bazooka and 50-60 for the other two sounds right?

Gut says Team Glory, they win any kind of attrition battle unless she gets taken down early (Heart of Feuerstelle is a mid-range full heal to one person that doesn't run off mana, it just has a cooldown between casts) but it's a close one

Kamekguy posted...

How long can one of Bomberman's bombs remain un-exploded? Does he have any remote detonation options or things with a very long timer?

He's got remote bombs, they also apply as a powerup to each element of bomb he can use.

I will say one thing against Lucas's buffs: offense and defense up require a lot of stacking to reach decent levels (capping at +40% off/def), and Shield Omega/PSI Shield Omega are 50% reductions that only last 3 hits. I'm unsure on if PSI Shield also works against raw elements given most enemies will use PSI powers against you if they aren't physically attacking, but if they do, constant damage like surrounding fires, multiple shards of ice, or machine gun bullets eat up Lucas's fastest and most significant buff fast.

gut says Ryu but I'm not fully sold

So yeah, Glory although mainly just because it's a close match and the team with a really good healer/buffs usually wins those. I'd go the other way if Glory wasn't here to cast Heart

KanzarisKelshen posted...

Cao Cao is as he appears in the Dynasty Warriors series, with any additional moves from the Warriors Orochi series. He is equipped with the Purgatory Blade, Divine Justice, and Eagle Wing. He starts with full musou and has completed all appropriate skill trees.

Just for those who don't play the Warriors Orochi games, the villains in WO4 are gods. Including Zeus, Athena, Ares, Loki, and Odin.

So the powerscaling can get pretty crazy there. DW Cao Cao is definitely super human before you take the shadow clones and ice powers into account.

Maniac64 posted...

Just for those who don't play the Warriors Orochi games, the villains in WO4 are gods. Including Zeus, Athena, Ares, Loki, and Odin.

So the powerscaling can get pretty crazy there. DW Cao Cao is definitely super human before you take the shadow clones and ice powers into account.

It's just the moves to be fair (and a lot of why you can fight and beat those guys is that some characters, like Lu Bu, get divine transformations), but yes, this does mean Cao Cao gets to do stuff like cast a nasty spirit bomb. It's a nice glowup!

Yeah I still think team Ryu takes it

each of team ryu is better than the equivalent person on the other side and there's nothing to make up for it on the other side

team ryu

no healing on the other team really makes a huge difference here

Yeah, I think team Lucas just has way too many ways to heal and outlast the other team.

Chaeix posted...

I think this hinges on how well Ryu can deal with Cao and Tron given Glory and Lucas are much better support. Bomberman has firepower but no healing and is kind of brittle

bomberman also doesnt have a stipulation keeping him from hurting his allies which makes it extremely hard for him to help without hindering

but bombermans bombs might also just light the entire field on fire in which case everyone but tron burns to death

I agree with this and think Ryu simply outlcasses Cao Cao if this becomes about short distance fighting

Eh, late but I'll put my 2 cents in. Cao Cao has to duel Ryu which is... mostly even for a while but the buffs on Ryu are going to eventually overpower Cao's AMBITION. Bomberman feels a bit too squishy to survive what Lucas and Glory throw at him and is probably the first to actually die, though Glory may follow him out via pre-planted bombs, or serv-bots carting bombs around. Honestly Cao's masterful tactitioning getting Bomberman to lace the field ahead of time in a useful way is what's going to get that done. Lucas vs. Tron... I think I would give to Tron? A little unsure. But if Ryu manages to take Cao Cao, I think the house of cards folds from there.

So Ryu, eventually, singed and shirtless, emerges victorious here.