Current Events > Is it Pippin's fault that ___ died? (LOTR spoilers)

(+) Yeah! (+)

Nah, it's Gandolf's fault for not getting the fuckin eagles to fly them there like 10 minutes into the story

Nah, it's Gandolf's fault for not getting the fuckin eagles to fly them there like 10 minutes into the story

yeah like what was the bullshit reason? like they were afraid of the evil flying creatures or something? which is bull bc we can see eagles know how to fight in the end.

yeah like what was the bullshit reason? like they were afraid of the evil flying creatures or something? which is bull bc we can see eagles know how to fight in the end.

It's Frodo's fault for choosing the mines. Or Gimli's fault for suggesting them. Or Gandalf's for letting Frodo decide in the first place.

Wasn't gandalf's death against the balrog necessary for his upgrade to gandalf the white?

if anything it's Gandalfs fault, cause he knew it was a terrible idea, and then just pawning off the decision on Frodo without explaining at all to anyone that it was bad.
even Gimli didn't know what had happened, he thought they were ginna be welcomed with the open arms of his still alive cousin

Not really, the stupid being that did it technically could have done it without that happening. For whatever reason despite siding with the fellowship he put the bare minimum into helping them.

IIRC The maiar aren't supposed to interfere in moral affairs. Gandalf spends the entire 3rd age basically rules lawyering himself into a position where he isn't technically breaking the rules but comes dangerously close. In contrast, Sarumon is condemned, IIRC to wander the planet as a powerless ghost for all time for the crime of being too directly involved.

yeah like what was the bullshit reason? like they were afraid of the evil flying creatures or something? which is bull bc we can see eagles know how to fight in the end.

IIRC The maiar aren't supposed to interfere in moral affairs. Gandalf spends the entire 3rd age basically rules lawyering himself into a position where he isn't technically breaking the rules but comes dangerously close. In contrast, Sarumon is condemned, IIRC to wander the planet as a powerless ghost for all time for the crime of being too directly involved.

Wasn't gandalf's death against the balrog necessary for his upgrade to gandalf the white?

There were 2 reasons,

It's Frodo's fault for choosing the mines. Or Gimli's fault for suggesting them. Or Gandalf's for letting Frodo decide in the first place.

I think Sauron also got similarly punished like Saruman. He became an invisible, powerless entity who is unable to effect anything and can't even communicate with anyone

The whole bit about Pippin accidentally knocking a dwarf corpse down a well was a creation of the movies, the orcs of Moria just happened to catch them when they were in The Chamber of Mazarbul in the books.

I thought that in the book Pippin was intentionally dropping rocks down the well to see how long it would take to hit bottom.

In the movie at least it was an accident

That is, of course, only from the original book. If you read supplemental stuffs (the important one here being Unfinished Tales) then the orcs were tailing Gollum, who was tailing the party. The rock ended up not really being the relevant factor in the slightest.

To that end it's all made-up anyway so who cares

Anything can be retconned at any time

The Eagles would've attracted too much attention and greatly increase the risk of the ring falling into enemy hands.

This.

The reason is literally just God going "Nah let them handle it themselves, you can't do too much" and then Gandalf wiggle rooming his way through helping.

If the entire Fellowship went, yeah. A sole eagle flying about wouldn't have drawn any undue attention.

If the entire Fellowship went, yeah. A sole eagle flying about wouldn't have drawn any undue attention.

If the entire Fellowship went, yeah. A sole eagle flying about wouldn't have drawn any undue attention.

I thought that in the book Pippin was intentionally dropping rocks down the well to see how long it would take to hit bottom.

In the movie at least it was an accident

One of Cersei's scorpions would have brought down an eagle no problem

I mean having 2 Hobbits just walking without any real gear and help even as far as they did to set up the brotherhood seemed like just as much or more riskier than taking a shot with the eagles.

Gandalf states multiple times throughout the story that the secrecy of their mission is of the utmost importance. They want Sauron to think they plan on using the Ring against him because Sauron cannot even fathom that they'd consider destroying it. It's not until Frodo is there at Mt. Doom that he realizes what is actually happening.

The Eagles would alert Sauron to the actual plan rather quickly I imagine. And let's not assume they'd even make it deep into Mordor either.

i suppose that's true. neither option seems good but they were pretty desperate so i can see the final decision being what it is. i'll disagree til the day i die though, but Gandalf probably knows better than me.

Sauron was right to assume destroying the ring was impossible and inconceivable. No being would have been willingly able to destroy it.

Tom Bombadil has entered the chat

It's a stealth mission. The eagles can be seen from miles away and the second they come flying into Mordor with the Ring they're going to have the whole of Mordor on them. No way they make it.

Everything is Eru's fault.

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