Current Events > So are like 99% of those soccer dive reactions fake?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Just watched a match where a player passed it to teammate but got tripped and he started holding ankle. The ball then went to another teammate instead during this pass and he got up so fast when that happened. This was in the span of like 3-5 seconds makes me wonder if those holding ankle, face, etc stuff are ever real.

Yes, they are real. The face holding is probably the most obviously cynical - if an opponent makes even the slightest, softest, glancing contact with their face then they'll go down as if they've just been punched.

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This is becoming less and less true as the female game has become more competitive. Now that there's more money involved and more people watching we're increasingly starting to see women use the same cynical tactics that men do.

In the World Cup Final for example Spain's players instantly started going to the ground 'injured' every couple of minutes to slow things down once England had some momentum after the penalty save. It was a very effective tactic.

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The match is Shakhtar Donetsk vs. Barcelona for anyone wondering. I feel the same in like the first 4 minutes there was a delay because one player bumped into goalie and goalie acted hurt. So they had to get out medical staff and attend to goalie for a few minutes.

I love soccer/football . . . but that shit has to go. Why has FIFA even allowed this to keep going on for forever? If they cracked down, it would mostly disappear.

BlueTigerLion posted...

Just watched a match where a player passed it to teammate but got tripped and he started holding ankle. The ball then went to another teammate instead during this pass and he got up so fast when that happened. This was in the span of like 3-5 seconds makes me wonder if those holding ankle, face, etc stuff are ever real.

They are exaggerated.

Players who try and stay on their feet or not react to fouls are often penalised for doing so as they don't get the free kick.

There's also other factors: trying to get an opponent booked, taking a breather, using the break to get tactical instructions.

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I watch a fair bit of the women's football, and this is changing. As the game becomes more high profile, and the stakes higher, the women become just as prone to using the dark arts.

Diving is punished, though it should be a bigger card. Sometimes players exaggerate injury to get water cooling break for their team as well. So it occasionally strategic, but like

Even with a shin guard, if you're sprinting full speed on a guy who's tackling you at full speed, I don't care what you think you are, it's gonna hurt like a mfer

As a very very very casual observer, it has always seem to me in pro soccer, that the women are tougher than the men. Women seem more authentic and are more likely to not fake an injury, amd to even try to keep playing and suck it up

Men constantly seem like big babies and drama queens

There's a few things at play.

1. These guys are on the field for 90 minutes straight with no subs and very few breaks. Sometimes they're just trying to get a few seconds rest but you can't just lie down on the field you'll get thrown out.
2. Sometimes a foul occurs and overacting is done to get the ref to notice the foul. Not necessarily that there's an injury but it's a big court and only one field ref who has to keep his eye on a lot of things.
3. Straight up diving does happen but it's rare and if the ref catches you, it's a red card.

They're exaggerated, but mostly true. The lower on the body get the more the scale tips towards it being genuine.

When they get up quickly, again, its a mix. Some of it is exaggerstipn, but these players are also world class athletes at the highest level with top of the line trainers. Even if it hurts a lot of them do just get on with it.

All I know is I once saw a video of a woman popping an arm I think out of socket, back into place. And then keep on playing

Has a male pro player ever done that?

Zikten posted...

All I know is I once saw a video of a woman popping an arm I think out of socket, back into place. And then keep on playing

Has a male pro player ever done that?

You might be interested in what happened to Man City goalkeeper Bert Trautmann in an FA Cup final.

In the 75th minute, Trautmann, diving at an incoming ball, was knocked out in a collision with Birmingham's Peter Murphy in which he was hit in the neck by Murphy's right knee. No substitutes were permitted in those days, so Trautmann, dazed and unsteady on his feet, carried on. For the remaining 15 minutes he defended his net, making a crucial interception to deny Murphy once more. Manchester City held on for the victory, and Trautmann was the hero because of his spectacular saves in the last minutes of the match. Trautmann admitted later that he had spent the last part of the match "in a kind of fog".[43]
His neck continued to cause him pain, and Prince Philip commented on its crooked state as he gave Trautmann his winner's medal.[44] Trautmann attended that evening's post-match banquet despite being unable to move his head,[45] and went to bed expecting the injury to heal with rest. As the pain did not recede, the following day he went to St George's Hospital, where he was told he merely had a crick in his neck which would go away.[46] Three days later, he got a second opinion from a doctor at Manchester Royal Infirmary. An X-ray revealed he had dislocated five vertebrae, the second of which was cracked in two.[46][47] The third vertebra had wedged against the second, preventing further damage which could have cost Trautmann his life.[47]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Trautmann

Zikten posted...

Has a male pro player ever done that?

I remember watching an international match ages ago and a player got kicked in the face and came back with one eye completely bandaged over.

ai123 posted...

You might be interested in what happened to Man City goalkeeper Bert Trautmann in an FA Cup final.

In the 75th minute, Trautmann, diving at an incoming ball, was knocked out in a collision with Birmingham's Peter Murphy in which he was hit in the neck by Murphy's right knee. No substitutes were permitted in those days, so Trautmann, dazed and unsteady on his feet, carried on. For the remaining 15 minutes he defended his net, making a crucial interception to deny Murphy once more. Manchester City held on for the victory, and Trautmann was the hero because of his spectacular saves in the last minutes of the match. Trautmann admitted later that he had spent the last part of the match "in a kind of fog".[43]
His neck continued to cause him pain, and Prince Philip commented on its crooked state as he gave Trautmann his winner's medal.[44] Trautmann attended that evening's post-match banquet despite being unable to move his head,[45] and went to bed expecting the injury to heal with rest. As the pain did not recede, the following day he went to St George's Hospital, where he was told he merely had a crick in his neck which would go away.[46] Three days later, he got a second opinion from a doctor at Manchester Royal Infirmary. An X-ray revealed he had dislocated five vertebrae, the second of which was cracked in two.[46][47] The third vertebra had wedged against the second, preventing further damage which could have cost Trautmann his life.[47]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bert_Trautmann

OK that's pretty hardcore. But I still feel he's a rarity probably.

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lol. No its not.

Zikten posted...

OK that's pretty hardcore. But I still feel he's a rarity probably.

Do you think that sort of thing happens all of the time in women's soccer? They are professional athletes in both the women's and the men's game. Neither set of people are some sort of superheroes.

I'm of the opinion that 100% of dives should be carted off by field medics and not allowed to return until a full physical is conducted. If they want to pretend they're hurt to chance a penalty kick, they can risk being off the field for 20 or 30 minutes, and if they're actually injured they should be looked at anyway, so it's a win-win.

Zikten posted...

All I know is I once saw a video of a woman popping an arm I think out of socket, back into place. And then keep on playing

Has a male pro player ever done that?

not sure why you think that male players haven't played injured and that is probably more allowed in female soccer because they don't care about them, male soccer players are the stars not the female ones

s0nicfan posted...

I'm of the opinion that 100% of dives should be carted off by field medics and not allowed to return until a full physical is conducted. If they want to pretend they're hurt to chance a penalty kick, they can risk being off the field for 20 or 30 minutes, and if they're actually injured they should be looked at anyway, so it's a win-win.

The game that inspired this topic literally just had 2 teammates bump into each and fall to the ground. That would be funny if that happened.

Tyranthraxus posted...

only one field ref

Lol wtf

The acting behind the dives are so good that studios are looking to hire players as scabs

Basically

MatzoTov posted...

Lol wtf

Well its not true there's multiple assistant referees

s0nicfan posted...

I'm of the opinion that 100% of dives should be carted off by field medics and not allowed to return until a full physical is conducted. If they want to pretend they're hurt to chance a penalty kick, they can risk being off the field for 20 or 30 minutes, and if they're actually injured they should be looked at anyway, so it's a win-win.

What is a 'dive' though.

Easy enough to see if there is clearly no physical contact, but that is rarely the case. If someone is sprinting flat out, it doesn't take much contact to trip them.

s0nicfan posted...

I'm of the opinion that 100% of dives should be carted off by field medics and not allowed to return until a full physical is conducted. If they want to pretend they're hurt to chance a penalty kick, they can risk being off the field for 20 or 30 minutes, and if they're actually injured they should be looked at anyway, so it's a win-win.

You are not going to dive your way into a penalty kick. That's just not going to happen. Nobody is that good of an actor to pull that kind of shit off and if you try you will be thrown out.

ai123 posted...

What is a 'dive' though.

Easy enough to see if there is clearly no physical contact, but that is rarely the case. If someone is sprinting flat out, it doesn't take much contact to trip them.

If somebody's tripped and they get back up then they can keep playing. If somebody is tripped and then they spend 30 seconds rolling around on the grass grabbing their leg like their kneecap exploded trying to get the referees' attention because they're hoping for a late penalty call, then they must be really injured and should be taken off the field. Obviously this is going to require some degree of human intuition on the part of the referees, but it basically comes down to duration. If you're on the ground for more than five or 10 seconds, you're either really hurt or faking it and in both cases you should be carted off the field.

s0nicfan posted...

If somebody's tripped and they get back up then they can keep playing. If somebody is tripped and then they spend 30 seconds rolling around on the grass grabbing their leg like their kneecap exploded trying to get the referees' attention because they're hoping for a late penalty call, then they must be really injured and should be taken off the field. Obviously this is going to require some degree of human intuition on the part of the referees, but it basically comes down to duration. If you're on the ground for more than five or 10 seconds, you're either really hurt or faking it and in both cases you should be carted off the field.

You don't get a penalty kick for being more badly hurt.

If you're tripped in the penalty area, it's a penalty.

And yes, if a player requires treatment from the physio, instead of getting up and playing on, they have to leave the field. That's the rule now.

ai123 posted...

You don't get a penalty kick for being more badly hurt.

If you're tripped in the penalty area, it's a penalty

Replace penalty kick with free kick. My point doesn't change.

It's definitely true although some fault has to be given to the standard of refereeing who more often than not tend to bottle making decisions unless absolutely necessary. This can be attributed to how fast the game is though and it can be hard to spot small fouls so I don't blame players trying to get the attention of the ref but there is a difference between exaggerating the foul to get the attention of the ref and outright lying and making yourself look like a clown.

I don't blame players for doing it in the box trying to win penalties because obvious fouls frequently go unpunished if the player tries to do the right thing and play on. Some refs have come out and outright admitted if a player goes down it's a lot easier for them to give a penalty so being fouled and going to ground to get the penalty can be a better option than playing on and risk not getting one given.

People who make fraudulent dive when no contact has been made should get carded though. Although by the book you can still get a penalty if you need to get out of the way of an incoming foul so sometimes a penalty can be given when no contact has been made but it's rare because fans don't know the rules and the refs bottle it so it's not clear cut and there are lots of grey areas which some people take advantage off.

I will say fouls and diving can be used tactically. If your team is being absolutely run ragged then diving and getting a card can cause a couple of minutes break where your team can regroup or if you are defending you can do a "professional foul" to stop the game and get back in position if it's a breakaway goal.

punkfanalways posted...

It's definitely true although some fault has to be given to the standard of refereeing who more often than not tend to bottle making decisions unless absolutely necessary. This can be attributed to how fast the game is though and it can be hard to spot small fouls so I don't blame players trying to get the attention of the ref but there is a difference between exaggerating the foul to get the attention of the ref and outright lying and making yourself look like a clown.

I don't blame players for doing it in the box trying to win penalties because obvious fouls frequently go unpunished if the player tries to do the right thing and play on. Some refs have come out and outright admitted if a player goes down it's a lot easier for them to give a penalty so being fouled and going to ground to get the penalty can be a better option than playing on and risk not getting one given.

People who make fraudulent dive when no contact has been made should get carded though. Although by the book you can still get a penalty if you need to get out of the way of an incoming foul so sometimes a penalty can be given when no contact has been made but it's rare because fans don't know the rules and the refs bottle it so it's not clear cut and there are lots of grey areas which some people take advantage off.

I will say fouls and diving can be used tactically. If your team is being absolutely run ragged then diving and getting a card can cause a couple of minutes break where your team can regroup or if you are defending you can do a "professional foul" to stop the game and get back in position if it's a breakaway goal.

Oh, I absolutely understand the tactical value of taking a fall. My point was more that the sport is big enough that it can and should be above those sort of performative maneuvers. No ref is perfect, and if you're trying to game the system or the clock by abusing falls then to me that's something that should be penalized. The game should be about the game, not the meta strategy of abusing referee perception to buy time. It would be like if a basketball team was falling behind so one of the players just dumped the water bucket onto the court to force a cleanup and then claimed it was an accident. Sure, that happens once and you can say accidents happen, but when half the teams in the league start regularly using ice water dumping as a strategy to stop the clock it would feel like something that should be addressed. Intentional falls are the same way, IMO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXwy5_qWbzU

That's also blatantly ignoring all the times falling on the ground is ignored. The only time it's ever actual stoppage is if they've falled tripped inside the box or there's a serious injury.

Even this season alone, for I think Sheffield, their senior player had his ankles straight up snapped after a collision, probably ending his career. That shit was fucking gruesome, had to look away.

Tbh the worst injuries will always be the non-collision ones. If a player unprovoked starts yelling in pain while grabbing their legs and fallen over, they'll be out for a month or more. The human body wasn't designed to withstand that kinda abuse for 10+ years

Zikten posted...

OK that's pretty hardcore. But I still feel he's a rarity probably.

If there are no more substitutions, yeah, plenty of players will keep on going injured.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=07mBfR8erMY&pp=ygUUa2V5IGFuZCBwZWVsZSBzb2NjZXI%3D