Current Events > Yearly reminder that spears are better than swords 80% of the time

(+) Yeah! (+)

K181 posted...

But can a spear cut a bullet in half?

checkmate

neither can a sword

Mythbusters did a episode on that. At least one katana maker in the world makes swords that can. Unlikely a human would have such skill though. They mounted the sword with clamps and shot it.

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In real life you don't swing spears in exaggerated arcs like in World of Warcraft, Skyrim or Dynasty Warriors. Look up a video of realistic swordfighting and you'll be surprised how subdued it looks.

Dark_Arbron posted...

In real life you don't swing spears in exaggerated arcs like in World of Warcraft or Skyrim. Look up a video of realistic swordfighting and you'll be surprised how subdued it looks.

It's mostly thrusts right? Cause it seems like what a spear is designed for.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

It's mostly thrusts right? Cause it seems like what a spear is designed for.

To put is simply, thrust for long range, swing for short range.
You know the could just hold the handle in the middle right?

Spear or not, making a big swing is suicide. So those gigantic swords are impractical in reality.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

It's mostly thrusts right? Cause it seems like what a spear is designed for.

More or less. You know how hunters with spears thrust and feint rapidly when keeping a tiger at bay? Same thing versus humans.

But even with swords, most of the time your swords are clashed. You're both trying to leverage the tension so that you can cleanly stab them. It's hard to explain with words, again, watch a video. But the point is it's definitely not huge wide swings.

Ricemills posted...

To put is simply, thrust for long range, swing for short range.
You know the could just hold the handle in the middle right?

Would also depend on the type of polearm. Weapons like mast ax (slash lance?) and halberd I believe can be swung, but again, not haphazardly. A spear or javelin on the other hand has a pointed tip and that's all.

Dark_Arbron posted...

Would also depend on the type of polearm. Weapons like mast ax (slash lance?) and halberd I believe can be swung, but again, not haphazardly. A spear or javelin on the other hand has a pointed tip and that's all.

Don't focus on the tip, the entire parts are weapons too. You still can beat someone to death with the stick alone.

Ricemills posted...

Don't focus on the tip, the entire parts are weapons too. You still can beat someone to death with the stick alone.

True. Hence I'll give a shout out to that earlier post bringing up the quarterstaff. I do quite like that weapon.

Don't focus on the tip, the entire parts are weapons too.

Also, not sure if innuendo.

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Thanks. I was invisioning using the shield to deflect the spear to the side then charging in.

Guess it would come down to individual skill level but the spear user having a general advantage.

Shields are not making you immune to damage. You will still receive the impact, and at the worst scenario your shield holding arm can be broken. Tanking hits with shield are just an anime trope.
And deflecting definitely require a high skill.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

It's mostly thrusts right? Cause it seems like what a spear is designed for.

it can also be used has a blunt weapon, just because it as a point doesn't mean you can't hurt people with the rest of the spear, getting smacked in the face by the other end of the spear wouldn't feel very good hell even with swords there's techniques where you grab the sword by the blade ( there's ways to that without getting cut) and smack the opponent with the handle or the guard of the sword and there's one specific technique where you unscrew the pommel and throw at them to end them rightly

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This is an extremely good post.

Speaking of spears, apparently Techland is giving players polearms as a future weapon type in Dying Light 2 since people were a bit miffed that only the NPCs could use spears to poke and prod the player from a relative distance while players could only pick up and throw said spears like a javelin.

Thats going to be interesting to see how the added reach of a spear can be used to cheese zombies through the level geometry, as while I absolutely adore Techlands games, they do suffer from the occasional jankiness from time to time.

Oh this blew tf up

Too much to read won't be addressing anything

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You're pretty knowledgeable I figure you prolly handled business lol

How did this topic blow up but the one about calming my dog didn't

My ass sore frfr

Alright Ill just get a sword as long as your spear. Checkmate

Wedge_Antilles posted...

**** Moash

all my homies hate Moash

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/eef82192.jpg

On the topic of Fire Emblem, why does axe > spear though?

I loved spartans as a kid so spears were always cool to me.

Spears are the weapons that helped propel our species as a whole.

That being said, swords are easy to design in a way that can make one look iconic, and sometimes I feel like buying one for fun.

Seaman_Prime posted...

Alright Ill just get a sword as long as your spear. Checkmate

So a greatsword

Though they're comparable to the length of shorter spears

St0rmFury posted...

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/e/eef82192.jpg

On the topic of Fire Emblem, why does axe > spear though?

I guess the logic is either the axe can break the spear or catch it

Smackems posted...

So a greatsword

Though they're comparable to the length of shorter spears

No i mean something even greater than a greatsword. Something too big to even be called a sword, more like a large hunk of iron.

Seaman_Prime posted...

No i mean something even greater than a greatsword. Something too big to even be called a sword, more like a large hunk of iron.

Japan has one I think. Might be the longest "sword" in the world. You'll have to do your own digging if you care enough though

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It's usually not, the reach advantage allows you to thrust without leaving yourself too vulnerable

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Mythbusters did a episode on that. At least one katana maker in the world makes swords that can. Unlikely a human would have such skill though. They mounted the sword with clamps and shot it.

They've cut bullets in half (by shooting directly at blades they were testing) plenty of times on Forged in Fire

Spears are incredibly nimble

One of the reasons I love Terranigma

And bow/arrow > spears.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/8/89a7eba0.jpg
or fists
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/2/23f71358.jpg
seem to do better than axes and spears do

Swears beat both.

I mean, swears fucking beat both.

Swords were mostly for self defense and a sidearm really. Reach is king.

Smackems posted...

Japan has one I think. Might be the longest "sword" in the world. You'll have to do your own digging if you care enough though

It's important to note that those ridiculously long ootachi or nodachi were often just gifts to temples not actually meant for battle. It wasn't considered a very practical weapon, especially as guns and spears became dominant.

Ricemills posted...

Shields are not making you immune to damage. You will still receive the impact, and at the worst scenario your shield holding arm can be broken. Tanking hits with shield are just an anime trope.
And deflecting definitely require a high skill.

The shield was the primary line of defense in battle. People invested in good armor because it actually does it's job unlike in movies or video games where it's paper thin. I'll give examples with the Classical Greeks because that's the subject I'm more familiar with.

Greek spearmen, or hoplites as we know them, carried around a double-grip shield known as the aspis. These types of warriors start showing up around the archaic age, at this time these were wealthy men armed as men of bronze who led warbands of their followers and fought in a more fluid type of combat than the mass infantry combat of the classical age. Men would duel with each other, run in and out of combat, and their armament would consist of throwing spears along with their thrusting spear. In the famed chigi vase, I would also add that it's very problematic using the word phalanx in this context, you can see their armament include a long thrusting spear and throwing spears with a throwing loop attached to them.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/6/6285e241.jpg
Despite older scholarship claiming that the armament of a hoplite was only useful in formation fighting Hans van Wees in his book Greek Warfare: Myth and Realities shows that most likely the shield was originally used in duels and outside of formation fighting, depending on which school of thought you stand in the "phalanx" was a concept that came after the archaic age, or if you're a radical a concept that developed during the Peloponnesian War. Indeed, even in the classical age hoplites found themselves in ambushes, raids, sieges and fighting on top of ships where formation fighting was not possible.

Fast forward to the classical age around the 5th and 4th century BC and surviving depiction of hoplites mostly depict them only armed with the aspis, a helmet, usually the cone-shaped pilos helmet, and their tunic as armor.
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/forum/9/96ba3de4.jpg
The funerary stele of Demokleides, son of Demetrios shows Demokleides with his battle gear which consist of a Corinthian helmet and a shield and nothing else. In the account of the march of the Thracian and Greek mercenaries of Kyros the Younger, or the so-called Ten Thousand, Xenophon remarks that they only had 50 available cuirasses among them to arm their newly established horsemen meaning among this force of 11,000 mercenary hoplites the vast majority had no body armor. Even the Spartans, who were all rich leisured gentlemen, eschewed body armor according to Xenophon's description. It's very likely the reason for this is because mass formation fighting allowed hoplites to defend one another while the early Greek warriors armed with the aspis and throwing spears required more armor for the more fluid and chaotic situations they fought in so the shield was enough. I should also mention that the vast majority of hoplites were normal people in arms, and if Xenophon and other 4th century writers are correct, proud amateurs who thought training in arms, or any form of military training, was a strange thing.

The scholar Peter Krentz looked at the casualties sustained by the winners and losers in Classical Greek battles and came out with the statistic range of 3% to 10% loses for the victor and a 10% to 20% for the loser. The vast majority of carnage occurred after one side broke and the other gave chase and the Greeks were quite persistent in the pursuit of the defeated. The chase of the defeated was the upmost most important task for the victor, which after the victor chased the defeated as much as possible came the looting and the construction of the trophy, which is very possible was dedicated to the slaughter of the enemy. In order to properly defend against this most Greek commanders withheld their horsemen since the loss of these valuable warriors could lead to disaster with the enemy horsemen and light infantry inflicting mass carnage unchecked. As Xenophon puts in the mouth of Klearkhos, the war loving Spartan and commander of the Ten Thousand:

if we need to fight, we have no horsemen to help us, while the enemys horsemen are very many and very skilled. So if we win, whom could we kill? And if we lose, not one of us can be saved
(An. 2.4.6).

ssjevot posted...

It's important to note that those ridiculously long ootachi or nodachi were often just gifts to temples not actually meant for battle. It wasn't considered a very practical weapon, especially as guns and spears became dominant.

That's what I meant. A ceremonial one. Ridiculously big, like 20 ft long or some shit

pretzelcoatl posted...

They've cut bullets in half (by shooting directly at blades they were testing) plenty of times on Forged in Fire

Then it stands to reason if someone had super human reflexes and perception they could cut a bullet in half. Humans ain't up to snuff not the sword

Guns beat all

Piplup_Sniper posted...

Guns beat all

I know I've already brought up Mythbusters but they covered that too and showed if attacked by someone with a knife within a certain distance you are unlikely to be quick enough to draw a gun before getting stabbed. It was either within 20 yards or feet. Probably feet.

Out of 3 attempts he only managed to shoot him once but still got "stabbed"

Now if you both already have your weapons out it evens it up a bit

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I know I've already brought up Mythbusters but they covered that too and showed if attacked by someone with a knife within a certain distance you are unlikely to be quick enough to draw a gun before getting stabbed. It was either within 20 yards or feet. Probably feet.

Out of 3 attempts he only managed to shoot him once but still got "stabbed"

Now if you both already have your weapons out it evens it up a bit

I love Mythbusters... but like, even if we assume that was the pinnacle of gun draws, why can't the person with the gun actively be moving as they draw their gun in order to keep distance?

Sufferedphoenix posted...

Then it stands to reason if someone had super human reflexes and perception they could cut a bullet in half. Humans ain't up to snuff not the sword

Sounds like we need to start breeding better humans.

PiOverlord posted...

I love Mythbusters... but like, even if we assume that was the pinnacle of gun draws, why can't the person with the gun actively be moving as they draw their gun in order to keep distance?

Drawing and doing a lot of movement would probably be difficult. The other thing is lining up your shot in time. Which is difficult enough on a moving target especially if they know what they are doing

Not a gun and knife situation but I remember a case of a marine going on a shooting and taking down several cops by himself. He was charging them and they couldn't hit him cause he wouldn't run in a straight line. He kept zig zaggaing as he advanced on them.

So a matter of skill/training is something to consider too

A_Good_Boy posted...

Sounds like we need to start breeding better humans.

I seem to remember hearing about a guy who could cut down either pellets of bbs Shot at him with a sword. Not as impressive as a bullet but we could start with him

Or the few guys who can catch arrows Shot at them

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I seem to remember hearing about a guy who could cut down either pellets of bbs Shot at him with a sword. Not as impressive as a bullet but we could start with him

Or the few guys who can catch arrows Shot at them

We gotta start a breeding program. The dude that can chop bbs out of the air needs to start having kids with the lady that can shoot a bow and arrow with her feet while performing a handstand on stilts.

A_Good_Boy posted...

We gotta start a breeding program. The dude that can chop bbs out of the air needs to start having kids with the lady that can shoot a bow and arrow with her feet while performing a handstand on stilts.

Yeah never saw the show myself but someone told me about it. Think it was a short lived show called Stan Lee's super heroes where they would go find real people with extraordinary talents.

Sufferedphoenix posted...

I seem to remember hearing about a guy who could cut down either pellets of bbs Shot at him with a sword. Not as impressive as a bullet but we could start with him

Or the few guys who can catch arrows Shot at them

This may be the guy you are thinking of.
https://youtu.be/Qzhs1Z8Rwnk?si=0-HMlBjuKk1y-Q4U&t=79
As a long time practioner of Iai I can tell you that the level of technique and precision this dude has is bonkers.

As to the original topic at hand yeah, in most situations a spear is simply a better weapon. As Gladius said, even with a shield it's hard to get inside against an opponent who knows what they are doing, and without a shield you mostly screwed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J1XBVbb-bI

This guy here does okay but he makes the fatal mistake that most people make when trying to apply training to physical combat, he retreats rather than advancing when he engages. Which is a thing that is a natural reaction, someone tries to hit you with a thing you want to move away rather than towards. Problem is that getting in closer is almost always preferable and is what most martial arts, weapon or open hand, teach you. Mostly because when you advance while blocking or parrying you can control the angle to which the blow is deflected better and place yourself in an advantageous position at the end. If you retreat you are at the end of your extension for the block or parry and less able to control it and your opponent gets to dictate the continued point of engagement.

ScazarMeltex posted...

This may be the guy you are thinking of.
https://youtu.be/Qzhs1Z8Rwnk?si=0-HMlBjuKk1y-Q4U&t=79
As a long time practioner of Iai I can tell you that the level of technique and precision this dude has is bonkers.

As to the original topic at hand yeah, in most situations a spear is simply a better weapon. As Gladius said, even with a shield it's hard to get inside against an opponent who knows what they are doing, and without a shield you mostly screwed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4J1XBVbb-bI

This guy here does okay but he makes the fatal mistake that most people make when trying to apply training to physical combat, he retreats rather than advancing when he engages. Which is a thing that is a natural reaction, someone tries to hit you with a thing you want to move away rather than towards. Problem is that getting in closer is almost always preferable and is what most martial arts, weapon or open hand, teach you. Mostly because when you advance while blocking or parrying you can control the angle to which the blow is deflected better and place yourself in an advantageous position at the end. If you retreat you are at the end of your extension for the block or parry and less able to control it and your opponent gets to dictate the continued point of engagement.

Thanks always wanted to see it but never could bothered to look.