Board 8 > Most Evil Fictional Character: Bill Cipher vs. Johan Liebert

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Welcome to the 2023 edition of Most Evil Fictional Character, a single-elimination tournament to determine the most evil fictional character of all time!

Here's the bracket:

https://www.bracketmaker.com/tmenu.cfm?tid=477621&tclass=

And here's the discussion topic:

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/boards/8-gamefaqs-contests/80568652

And here are the rules:

-First and foremost, YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT. The reason for this is that these topics encourage a lot of discussion and debate, and it helps me to distinguish a vote from simple discussion if all votes are bolded. So, I state again, ALL VOTES MUST BE BOLDED FOR THEM TO COUNT. I reserve the right to be lenient in early topics if people just aren't getting it, but for the most part, IF YOUR VOTE ISN'T BOLDED, IT WON'T COUNT.

-You must vote for which of the two characters you honestly believe to be the more evil of the two. You can determine this via any method you like, use your own morals and judgement, read all the arguments made to determine your choice, or however you choose to make your pick, but you must only vote for the one you truly believe is the most evil. This isn't a death battle, or a popularity contest. You're voting ONLY for the most evil character out of the two choices presented.

-While on that subject, remember that because this isn't a death battle or a fighting tournament, do your absolute best to consider the two characters as if their power levels were equal (either the weaker character brought up to the level of the strongest, or vice versa, or both if you want to consider both possibilities). Therefore, just because, for example, one of the characters blew up a planet and the other one merely kicked a puppy, doesn't necessarily mean the planet killer is more evil than the puppy kicker. Consider the characters as if they have the exact same capabilities and what they might do in that scenario.

-You can make any arguments, debates, etc. you want in this topic. Discussion is STRONGLY encouraged, a fun debate about which of the two characters is most evil is exactly what these topics are for. Just don't make it personal, no insults or flaming, keep things civil even if you disagree. Also, no vote rallying, if you want to encourage people to vote for your character you need to at least make some semblance of an argument as to why, even if it's just "Character X did (really dastardly thing), I can't believe no one's voting for them!"

-Voting will continue for exactly 24 hours after the post is made. If there's a tie, there will be a new 24 hour topic. This will continue indefinitely until a winner is determined.

-YOU MUST BOLD YOUR VOTE FOR IT TO COUNT.

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The following write-ups will contain untagged SPOILERS for Gravity Falls and the anime and manga Monster.

BILL CIPHER

Bill Cipher is the primary antagonist of Gravity Falls.

An immensely powerful dream demon from the Second Dimension who rules over the Nightmare Realm, Bill desires to bring chaos across the rest of known existence by achieving a physical form and opening a rift between the Nightmare Realm and Earth. Because of his harmless appearance and charismatic nature, he often enjoyed playing games with people, either to make himself more trustworthy or because he likes manipulating people, regarding how easily they fall into his traps. It also gives whoever doesn't know his true nature the false impression that he isn't evil when in actuality, Bill is a completely heartless monster. When he got mad, Bill became full of rage, attacking without mercy and for the most part, stops fooling around. He is also very masochistic, as he enjoys hurting himself, as shown when he tortured Dipper's body while possessing it, even exclaiming that pain is hilarious. He also has no problem killing or hurting children like Dipper and Mabel, as shown when he purposefully harmed Dipper's body while possessing it and nearly killed one of the twins to force Stanford to surrender to him. An expert manipulator and a masterful liar, he is clearly capable of fooling others into trusting him long enough for him to betray them in a heartbeat and is falsely affable enough to influence others into becoming one of his many pawns or making deals with him (which he will almost always double-cross to his advantage). Bill also wasn't above using people's personal issues and feelings to manipulate them, such as when he manipulated Dipper into making a deal with him by simply reminding him of everything the latter had sacrificed for Mabel's sake, particularly highlighting the fact that she had done nothing for him in return. Overall, Bill Cipher is a cunning, malevolent, sinister, blasphemous, charismatic, egotistical, deceptive, highly manipulative, self-centered, chaotic, ruthless, omniscient, and sadomasochistic con artist who has absolutely no regard or remorse whatsoever for the crimes he's committed; as far as he's concerned, billions of people (including children, infants, and animals) can die for all he cares as long as he gets what he wants and achieves his goals in the end.

vs.

JOHAN LIEBERT

Johan Liebert is the primary antagonist of the anime and manga Monster.

Johan Liebert is a ruthless, emotionless, and psychopathic serial killer whose life was saved by Kenzo Tenma as a child. He is also the older twin of his sister Nina Fortner. Johan has stated that his one true goal is to be the last one alive when the world endsbut upon rediscovering a children's book that appeared to play a major role in his past, he instead set his mind on committing the "perfect suicide", i.e. dying without leaving behind any evidence of his existence (with the possible exception of Dr. Tenma's memories of him, in order to destroy Tenma's faith in humanity). His wanton cruelty and depthless malice do not appear to be humanized by traits or drives such as hatred, vengeance, lust, a point to prove, or even sadism; being fully aware of his nature and devoid of any need to justify himself, his actions are about as reasonless, emotionless, and nihilistic as he isthus possibly rendering his evil as literally pure and undiluted as can be, given his lack of any discernible gain from it or even a consistent identity. It is perhaps for this reason that he earns such condemnations as monster, devil, vampire, alienand for which Schuwald claims to have seen Hell itself in his eyes. The clear psychopathic tendencies he exhibits as a childalong with the hellish fate he inflicts upon the child-experimenting orphanage Kinderheim 511, even prior to most of his past traumasclearly prove that he is far from a victim of circumstance, given the premeditated and calculated murders of his foster families; a former director of said orphanage, Hartmann, admits himself that not even such an inhumane place could have crafted a "masterpiece" like Johan. His most consistent belief is that all life is insignificant, equal only in death. He possesses an equal capacity for psychological torture and can persuade nearly anybody to kill either others or themselves; whenever possible, however, Johan will subject his victims to the worst possible suffering and loss rather than killing them himself, which often drives them to suicide anyhowsuch as when he forces Helmut Wolf to watch his wife, children, and many friends and acquaintances all die one after the other, reducing him to a broken and paranoid wretch, despite he and Anna having been saved by Wolf from a near-death experience. Johan has expressed a similar lack of gratitude to Dr. Tenma, who had also saved his life, by poisoning his boss and coworkers, thereby framing Tenma for the murders due to his severe demotion prior to this.

I haven't seen Gravity Falls so someone convince me

I think I go Bill here but these matches are getting progressively more difficult. Johan is deeply fucked up but I think Bill is more ambitious in his evil

I kinda think this one should at least be a semi-finals.

I dunno who to vote for. Hopefully I remember to come back this time

Wow this is like a finale match

Bill

Johan

Johan

Ultimately I think that Bill's desire for self-satisfaction is an entirely different, more understandable evil (though on a grander scale) than Johan's desire to irreparably harm others and the world as a repayment for a true act of kindness given to him. I'd say that Bill has no concept of the value of life (or finds it funny), whereas Johan does, and chooses to snuff it out because it has value, which is more purposefully evil to me.

bill. his ambition i think wins out for me and his fondness for unusual brands of punishment and torment. maybe it's because monster is a more grounded story, but i just can't imagine johan being as "playful" with his methods as bill if he has bill's powers. idk, this is definitely a toughie. once again y'all picked a lot of grade a assholes.

Johan

Both have some drawbacks, but Bill canonically regrets his actions leading to the destruction of his home + people and supposedly invoked a redemption clause which I think hurts him more in comparison. As said though, tough match.

johan

This is a good one