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Current Events > Am I wrong to think people who hate the term 'toxic masculinity' are just dumb?

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GameGodOfAll
10/22/23 5:43:55 PM
#1:


Any time I've ever heard anyone complain about the term it is them just flat out not understanding what it means. It's to the point where I'm not sure it actually has any real defenders.

But maybe that sort of fanning the flames of confusion is a tactic to discredit actual criticisms? Sort of like the "only two genders" nonsense where the goal is to make people confuse gender with sex.

One way or the other though, any time I see anyone complain about the concept of "toxic masculinity" existing I can't help but think they're an idiot. Is that an asshole mindset or...fuck 'em?

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Turbam
10/22/23 5:45:16 PM
#2:


Nah, they're usually idiots.

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McMarbles
10/22/23 5:45:23 PM
#3:


No.

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GeraldDarko
10/22/23 5:46:20 PM
#4:


Like any buzzword, it becomes over used and often weaponized. It's totally a legitimate concept, though.

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R1masher
10/22/23 5:46:36 PM
#5:


Yes

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Notti
10/25/23 7:05:10 AM
#6:


GameGodOfAll posted...
or...fuck 'em?

You are correct sir.

But, it's like the people who convince themselves that they are alpha males.

When what they really are, are douchebags.

Trying to turn vices, into virtues.


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Ricemills
10/25/23 7:09:44 AM
#7:


They didn't even have the understanding of basic English.
Toxic Masculinity doesn't mean all Masculinity is toxic.
Just like poisonous bread doesn't mean all kinds of breads are poisonous, just a part of them that has to be avoided.

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PoopPotato
10/25/23 7:22:43 AM
#8:


We used to just call those guys assholes and dick heads.

When I hear toxic masculinity, I automatically picture the person using the phrase as an Imgur mod.

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Prismsblade
10/25/23 7:29:09 AM
#9:


Youre free to think what ever you want.

Its a pretty vague term used ignorantly at best or condescending at worst. And tbh I havent seen anyone online or irl that used the word who were even a semi likable person.

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Nok_Su_Kow
10/25/23 7:33:30 AM
#10:


Or those that want a straight pride month or parade even though straight people never had any event or struggle where being straight was a hardship to overcome, validate and celebrate.
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Jiek_Fafn
10/25/23 7:45:46 AM
#11:


Having big issues with the term "toxic masculinity" is usually just another form of toxic masculinity

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Karovorak
10/25/23 7:53:38 AM
#12:


The problem is that it's usally about the bs "Andrew Tate Alpha chad asshole" behaviour.

But calling that shit "masculine" is already too much of an honor for them. They take pride in their masculinity, and also in their toxic masculinity. That's their only identity.

So calling it "stupid bullshit" is much better. There is nothing "masculine" or "manly" about this bullshit at all, we should not give them the illusion that they are "true men" or some bs like that.

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bfslick50
10/25/23 7:56:18 AM
#13:


Prismsblade posted...
Its a pretty vague term

Not that vague. Toxic masculinity is those that define some abusive behavior as masculine and those who gate keep masculinity by saying men have to live up to certain stereotypes.

And tbh I havent seen anyone online or irl that used the word who were even a semi likable person.

How do you feel about the group that likes to use the term alpha male?

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Cemith
10/25/23 7:56:34 AM
#14:


Turbam posted...
Nah, they're usually idiots.


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UnfairRepresent
10/25/23 8:05:02 AM
#15:


Some of them legitimately don't know or have been intentionally mislead

The "I worked hard for 40 years and my wife takes the kids. how is that toxi masculinity!?" crowd, really aren't automatically dumb they just don't live on the internet.

But the vast majority of people who constantly attack it know full well what is is and just support it. Your Kevin Sorbos and Andrew Tates

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Lobinde
10/25/23 8:08:29 AM
#16:


Nok_Su_Kow posted...
Or those that want a straight pride month or parade even though straight people never had any event or struggle where being straight was a hardship to overcome, validate and celebrate.

Or when manosphere chuds ask "what about international MEN'S day!?!?" when there literally, actually is an International Men's Day (19th November). It's just that these chuds are too toxic to even each other to realise it.

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GranAures
10/25/23 8:12:03 AM
#17:


Lobinde posted...
Or when manosphere chuds ask "what about international MEN'S day!?!?" when there literally, actually is an International Men's Day (19th November). It's just that these chuds are too toxic to even each other to realise it.
"When's my white Juneteenth?"

Literally something I heard out of a nurse's mouth when my mother needed at home wound care.

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Irony
10/25/23 8:13:16 AM
#18:


The term toxic masculinity is almost exclusively used by toxic feminists

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Prismsblade
10/25/23 8:24:16 AM
#19:


bfslick50 posted...
Not that vague. Toxic masculinity is those that define some abusive behavior as masculine and those who gate keep masculinity by saying men have to live up to certain stereotypes.

How do you feel about the group that likes to use the term alpha male?
What counts as abusive behavior? That can be very subjective, and there really are certain stereotypes men are expected to uphold whether they like it or not in society. So shaming guys for it does nothing but confuses them mostly.

As for the alpha male thing I dont really know what else to call such guys. So until an alternative is created I dont really care.

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Bass
10/25/23 9:06:49 AM
#20:


Turbam posted...
Nah, they're usually idiots.


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#21
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Hayame_Zero
10/25/23 9:27:00 AM
#22:


The thing that kills me is dudes will bring up issues like the high suicide rate in men or abusing women, but still complain about "toxic masculinity". It's like they're pissy about the term itself.

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Robot2600
10/25/23 9:31:14 AM
#23:


Jiek_Fafn posted...
Having big issues with the term "toxic masculinity" is usually just another form of toxic masculinity


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bfslick50
10/25/23 2:10:10 PM
#24:


Prismsblade posted...
What counts as abusive behavior? That can be very subjective, and

I have to define abusive behavior for you? Sealioning

there really are certain stereotypes men are expected to uphold whether they like it or not in society. So shaming guys for it does nothing but confuses them mostly.

So I said don't shame guys for not living up to a stereotype, and you're saying those stereotypes are expected whether I like it or not and it's confusing for me to shame the men that are shaming others? What?

As for the alpha male thing I dont really know what else to call such guys. So until an alternative is created I dont really care.

Dipshit already works as an alternative to a guy that likes to call himself an alpha male.

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cjsdowg
10/25/23 2:11:17 PM
#25:


bfslick50 posted...


I have to define abusive behavior for you? Sealioning

Why do you link abuse to masculinity ?

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bfslick50
10/25/23 2:13:58 PM
#26:


bfslick50 posted...
Toxic masculinity is those that define some abusive behavior as masculine

cjsdowg posted...
Why do you link abuse to masculinity ?

I don't. But some people define controlling their woman as masculine. That's abusive. That's a toxic definition of masculinity. What word would you like to use to describe people who view physical and emotional abuse as manly? Toxic masculinity seems to fit the bill for me.

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Lil_Bit83
10/25/23 2:16:59 PM
#27:


You know what we called toxic masculinity and toxic femininity back in my day? Sexists. That's all the word really means. Simple, concise and to the point. Not all manly men are sexist. Not all girly girls are sexist. Some are.

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SaikyoStyle
10/25/23 2:17:10 PM
#28:


bfslick50 posted...
Dipshit already works as an alternative to a guy that likes to call himself an alpha male.
I'm a turbo dude. We outrank alpha males.

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bfslick50
10/25/23 2:18:02 PM
#29:


Lil_Bit83 posted...
You know what we called toxic masculinity and toxic femininity back in my day? Sexists. That's all the word really means. Simple, concise and to the point. Not all manly men are sexist. Not all girly girls are sexist. Some are.

Yep, it's a more specific term for a more specific scenario.

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PesticideDream
10/25/23 2:21:39 PM
#30:


Whenever I see someone use that term, I immediately think of some unwashed obese "nice guy" that will eventually write a 20-page rant on how every single man is a rapist, abusive asshole except for himself and how women only want assholes. The kind of guy that will be 40 and a virgin and forever hold a grudge against high school jocks while he's jerking it 5 times a day to cuckhold porn.
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creativerealms
10/25/23 2:23:15 PM
#31:


Most hate for it seems to be people thinking the term means all masculinity is toxic. So its people with a black and white type of thinking who don't understand nuance.

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GameGodOfAll
10/25/23 2:26:03 PM
#32:


So far this topic is justifying the title...

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xlr_big-coop
10/25/23 2:39:44 PM
#33:


Lil_Bit83 posted...
You know what we called toxic masculinity and toxic femininity back in my day? Sexists. That's all the word really means. Simple, concise and to the point. Not all manly men are sexist. Not all girly girls are sexist. Some are.
Best take in the thread.

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Nemu
10/25/23 2:46:46 PM
#34:


The main problem with it is that it's a purposefully vitriolic and loaded term, generally lazily tossed around at any opportunity. Even though it's a phenomenon that can be talked about, the usage of that term muddies discussion or renders discourse impossible.
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lolife67
10/25/23 2:49:25 PM
#35:


Nemu posted...
The main problem with it is that it's a purposefully vitriolic and loaded term, generally lazily tossed around at any opportunity. Even though it's a phenomenon that can be talked about, the usage of that term muddies discussion or renders discourse impossible.
Can you give me examples where it's "tossed around" where it's not applicable? I see a few posters claim this but haven't ever actually seen it in practice.
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AloneIBreak
10/25/23 3:11:38 PM
#36:


The inclusion of the word toxic renders the phrase unserious and relegates it to armchair psychologists, but I dont think theres any denying that men can formulate their ideas of masculinity in ways that are both personally and socially harmful.

Im not sure masculinity is a valid concept at all though.

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Trumble
10/25/23 3:14:34 PM
#37:


It's one of many, many ideas that has some good underlying points but has been abused to hell and back by people who just want an excuse to attack people they perceive as "the bad guys".

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bfslick50
10/25/23 7:00:40 PM
#38:


AloneIBreak posted...
The inclusion of the word toxic renders the phrase unserious and relegates it to armchair psychologists, but I dont think theres any denying that men can formulate their ideas of masculinity in ways that are both personally and socially harmful.

Im not sure masculinity is a valid concept at all though.

So you want a word that describes exactly what toxic means but sounds more academic to you? That's a pretty trivial complaint. Usually when academia has an uncommon complicated word it's because it's using multiple root words combined to describe a complicated topic or it's a very old word that was a simple word in the language it was first proposed in.

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#39
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willythemailboy
10/25/23 8:32:31 PM
#40:


GameGodOfAll posted...
Is that an asshole mindset
Yes.

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tri-sapphire
10/25/23 8:51:52 PM
#41:


Turbam posted...
Nah, they're usually idiots.


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hockeybub89
10/25/23 8:53:32 PM
#42:


So you're saying all chemicals are toxic?

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Notti
10/29/23 5:26:16 AM
#43:


Conflict posted...
The vast majority of people who have an issue with it think it means masculinity itself is toxic, so no, you're not wrong

Part of the reason is they are putting on insincere political theater. (anti equality)

Some are stupid enough to think it means "men = bad". (No)

And the rest genuinely think the bullying of society on men, to encourage them to behave in certain ways IS THE WAY MEN ARE SUPPOSED TO BE.

It's alpha. It's chad. And women love it.

So for them, yeah, removing the toxic elements IS removing the core of manliness.

They got stockholms.


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Glob
10/29/23 5:30:38 AM
#44:


Turbam posted...
Nah, they're usually idiots.

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DuuuDe14
10/29/23 5:47:02 AM
#45:


Didn't the APA get a ton of pushback for saying that traditional masculinity is inherently problematic?

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ultimate_reaver
10/29/23 5:53:47 AM
#46:


When people try to explain why they usually come off as very insecure so I guess not

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#47
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Guide
10/29/23 12:57:15 PM
#48:


The concept is legitimate. The slogan, for whatever reason, probably well poisoning, is no good. Like, if you keep having to "no actually" people, come up with a new name.

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GameGodOfAll
10/29/23 12:57:38 PM
#49:


Faarooq & Bradshaw said that?

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Shadow_Don
10/29/23 1:00:09 PM
#50:


I'm open to the idea that its an unproductive term or that progressives/feminists/leftists are leaving men behind.

but literally every time I have asked them to elaborate or tell me what feminists should do to help men I don't get an answer or its something feminists already do.

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