Current Events > Israel/Palestine War: Live Update Thread (Invasion)

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thronedfire2
10/15/23 7:48:11 PM
#450:


DarkAssassin89 posted...
I guess that second US carrier poised to enter the area got their attention.

they are quite the deterrent

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Strand
10/15/23 7:51:15 PM
#451:


Tom_Joad posted...
Maybe you ought to explain how him being Jewish has any bearing on the article.

Would a mention of a Senator being Catholic have any bearing on an article about his support for the Pope's yearly message for peace in the world?
Schumer thinks it has bearing on his support.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5FP_VMXFlE

"We say this to the Israeli people: we have your back. We feel your pain. We ache with you. And we and our country will stand by you in these difficult times. Israel is a strong nation and at this moment we say to Israel: you are not alone. The United States stands alongside you as an unrelenting partner. As the first Jewish Majority Leader, and the highest-ranking Jewish elected official ever in America, I felt I had to be here. I wanted to be here, but I also felt an obligation to be here.

[...]

"We echoed that to the Prime Minister of Israel and to every Israeli official we met. We told them that as well as military assistance, intelligence assistance, diplomatic assistance, we wanted humanitarian assistance, and I said to them, find the fastest safest and most efficient way to do so. We also told them it was really important, and it's difficult, we know it's difficult, but still we have to minimize civilian casualties in Gaza. As Senate Majority Leader, as I mentioned, the highest-ranking Jewish leader in American history, I'm doing everything in my power to ensure the Senate delivers the support Israel needs to accomplish these military intelligence and humanitarian goals."

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ZechtAurion
10/15/23 8:44:32 PM
#453:


And it starts....

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/muslim-boy-stabbed-landlord-chicago.html

Western media has blood on their hands now.
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s0nicfan
10/15/23 8:56:30 PM
#454:


ZechtAurion posted...
And it starts....

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/muslim-boy-stabbed-landlord-chicago.html

Western media has blood on their hands now.

It "starts" with this stabbing? What about the massive rise in hate crimes in the UK against Jewish people?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67102528
There has been a "massive increase" in antisemitic incidents in London since the Hamas attacks on Israel, the Metropolitan Police said.

Between 30 September and 13 October there were 105 antisemitic incidents and 75 offences.

In the same period last year, there were 14 antisemitic incidents and 12 offences.

Or the French teacher stabbed to death a few days ago?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67101089
A teacher has been killed and two people seriously injured in a knife attack at a school in France.

The attack happened at Gambetta high school in the northern city of Arras at about 11:00 local time (09:00 GMT).

The attacker has been arrested and is now in custody.

Witnesses say he shouted "Allahu Akbar", or "God is greatest", during the attack. Visiting the school, President Emmanuel Macron condemned the "barbarity of Islamist terrorism".

Didn't know about those? Or just didn't care? Why didn't things "start" with those?

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divot1338
10/15/23 9:01:24 PM
#455:


s0nicfan posted...
It "starts" with this stabbing? What about the massive rise in hate crimes in the UK against Jewish people?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67102528

Or the French teacher stabbed to death a few days ago?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67101089

Didn't know about those? Or just didn't care? Why didn't things "start" with those?
I suppose they would at least have to happen after the inital attack for one thing.

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s0nicfan
10/15/23 9:04:16 PM
#456:


divot1338 posted...
I suppose they would at least have to happen after the inital attack for one thing.

They did? The range in the police report is just because that's how they collect data, but if you actually read the article they specifically cite the massive spike in the last week.

The teacher stabbing was also only 2 days ago.

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ZechtAurion
10/15/23 9:32:43 PM
#457:


s0nicfan posted...
It "starts" with this stabbing? What about the massive rise in hate crimes in the UK against Jewish people?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67102528

Or the French teacher stabbed to death a few days ago?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-67101089

Didn't know about those? Or just didn't care? Why didn't things "start" with those?
First of all, relax. We're not going to blame each other here, the blame lies with the media.

The point was that the media is vilifying Palestinians, doing this is automatically going to create anti-Semitism on the opposition, add all the dead children images and videos because of Israel. This is how you get attacks from both sides. They're fueling each other and all that hatred is going to be aimed at innocents.

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s0nicfan
10/15/23 9:39:54 PM
#458:


ZechtAurion posted...
First of all, relax. We're not going to blame each other here, the blame lies with the media.

The point was that the media is vilifying Palestinians, doing this is automatically going to create anti-Semitism on the opposition, add all the dead children images and videos because of Israel. This is how you get attacks from both sides. They're fueling each other and all that hatred is going to be aimed at innocents.

I just don't see them explicitly vilifying Palestinians. The media has been pretty clear to specifics use Hamas in reporting and even if you want to argue that Israeli crimes aren't getting as much attention, that doesn't make Palestinians look worse. Perhaps a bit more bluntly, I'd argue they've bent over backwards to downplay or otherwise not put a focus on the rallies that happened the day or two after attack where people were explicitly celebrating Hamas' atrocities. Hundreds of people turned up in Minneapolis and it wasn't really reported on at all. The media seems to be putting the focus entirely on the conflict itself rather than the sometimes blatantly antisemitic celebrations that you would really want to playback 24/7 if you were trying to vilify all Palestinians. They'd be playing that clip of a pro Palestinian woman rubbing her eyes to mock the tears of the victims' family and laughing on loop, but they're not.

EDIT: To add, I think that perspective also downplays the depth and history of the religious divide in that area, not necessarily out of malicious intent, but because it's something people who grew up in the west just fundamentally can't understand. In some cases these are people who legitimately believe that if they die in battle they will be rewarded with an eternal paradise. The risk-reward behind things is just not a perspective we can appreciate.

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DnDer
10/15/23 9:53:26 PM
#459:


VFalcone posted...
Iran seemingly abandons war effort and threats https://twitter.com/Faytuks/status/1713629825242403161

Well that's good lol. Oh well.

"...not dare to attack Iran, its interests and nationals..."

Like the interests of a Palestinian state? I don't know. Feels like carefully couched language that protects a pretense until firing on someone begins.

VFalcone posted...
Israel orders 22 hospitals in Gaza to evacuate, putting over 2,000 lives at risk, says World Health Organization

https://www.who.int/news/item/14-10-2023-evacuation-orders-by-israel-to-hospitals-in-northern-gaza-are-a-death-sentence-for-the-sick-and-injured

https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1713667363311153639

Are these the same hospitals that have no electricity or water? It feels like the damage may already be done, but this is salt in a wound regardless.


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DnDer
10/15/23 9:56:08 PM
#460:


ZechtAurion posted...
And it starts....

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/muslim-boy-stabbed-landlord-chicago.html

Western media has blood on their hands now.

Paywalled.

But also: landlord. Islamophobic and a landlord. Maybe he's forced women to do things to pay for rent in a place that is as barely habitable as Gaza is at this point. Trifecta! Wouldn't surprise me anymore than the headline does.

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[deleted]
10/15/23 11:03:46 PM
#463:


[deleted]
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name_unknown
10/15/23 11:31:55 PM
#461:


Half a million people have fled to southern Gaza, IDF says
From CNN's Yong Xiong
About half a million people have left northern Gaza for the south following Israel's evacuation notice on Friday, an Israel Defense Forces spokesperson said Sunday.
The estimate represents roughly half the population of northern Gaza, where the IDF is gearing up for the next stages of its war with Hamas, which runs the territory.
The estimates and I emphasize these are estimates and it is difficult to track but we are looking at approximately half a million [people], IDF spokesperson Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus told CNN's Anderson Cooper.
The evacuation advisory came after Israel imposed a complete siege on Gaza. The IDF said Saturday it would allow safe movement on specified streets for residents to move from the northern city of Beit Hanoun to Khan Yunis in the south a roughly 20-mile distance of rubble-strewn streets.
Southern Gaza is struggling to accommodate the influx of people. Shelters are overloaded and the area is experiencing shortages of food, water and fuel.
Conricus said Israel has opened taps on its side to allow water to enter southern Gaza, but said he "doesn't have visibility on exactly how much is actually flowing where it should."

Does seem any day for the ground assault
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VFalcone
10/16/23 12:27:06 AM
#462:


DnDer posted...
"...not dare to attack Iran, its interests and nationals..."

Like the interests of a Palestinian state? I don't know. Feels like carefully couched language that protects a pretense until firing on someone begins.

Are these the same hospitals that have no electricity or water? It feels like the damage may already be done, but this is salt in a wound regardless.
They should have water now if the news about Israel turning it back on was true. However, now they want them to evacuate, so they can't even get the benefits.

I've seen a handful of videos of paramedics and hospital workers and it looks like they're going through hell on earth right now
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streamofthesky
10/16/23 2:05:52 AM
#464:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BAJVeDKTVRI

Jake Broe video on the conflict and how it lines up w/ Russia's aims.
Wasn't sure if it belonged in this topic or the Ukraine one, kinda a mix of both, but the Hamas attack is the main topic.
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Evil_Nice_Guy
10/16/23 2:06:52 AM
#465:


I heard that Hamas regularly murders Palestinian citizens who they believe MIGHT be collaborating with Israel? I emphasize "might" because I heard that when they do so, they aren't even close to 100% sure. They just go by rumors and simply kill any Palestinian citizen without any due process whatsoever....so basically Palestine is a giant police state where even Palestinian citizens are afraid of Hamas.

Is this true or just conjecture and hearsay?
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Tyranthraxus
10/16/23 2:13:38 AM
#466:


Evil_Nice_Guy posted...
I heard that Hamas regularly murders Palestinian citizens who they believe MIGHT be collaborating with Israel? I emphasize "might" because I heard that when they do so, they aren't even close to 100% sure. They just go by rumors and simply kill any Palestinian citizen without any due process whatsoever....so basically Palestine is a giant police state where even Palestinian citizens are afraid of Hamas.

Is this true or just conjecture and hearsay?

I don't know if this is true but Palestinian citizens hating Hamas is definitely a thing. Hamas is ultimately responsible for the deaths of the Gazans and they know it.

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squall567
10/16/23 2:57:33 AM
#467:


Evil_Nice_Guy posted...
I heard that Hamas regularly murders Palestinian citizens who they believe MIGHT be collaborating with Israel? I emphasize "might" because I heard that when they do so, they aren't even close to 100% sure. They just go by rumors and simply kill any Palestinian citizen without any due process whatsoever....so basically Palestine is a giant police state where even Palestinian citizens are afraid of Hamas.

Is this true or just conjecture and hearsay?
I heard that the Israeli government is arresting Israelis in Tel-Aviv for protesting against the Gaza bombings. They just go by and simply arrest any Israelis without any due process whatsoever....so basically Israel is a giant police state where even Israeli citizens are afraid of the Israeli government.

Is this true or just conjecture and hearsay?
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[deleted]
10/16/23 4:01:44 AM
#469:


[deleted]
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Tom_Joad
10/16/23 6:45:43 AM
#468:


Evil_Nice_Guy posted...
I heard that Hamas regularly murders Palestinian citizens who they believe MIGHT be collaborating with Israel? I emphasize "might" because I heard that when they do so, they aren't even close to 100% sure. They just go by rumors and simply kill any Palestinian citizen without any due process whatsoever....so basically Palestine is a giant police state where even Palestinian citizens are afraid of Hamas.

Is this true or just conjecture and hearsay?

Well, after they split from the PA in 2007, they killed every FATAH member that didn't flee to the West Bank. They even hung the corpses (by the neck) off the tops of buildings until the heads rotted off and the bodies fell to the ground.

There are pictures of it online, if you care to look.

And they kill every homosexual they can find.

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Lastly, by their own law, it's a criminal offense to sell land to a Jew (not Israeli).

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VFalcone
10/16/23 6:55:12 AM
#470:


  • One IDF soldier feels the war must not be with just Hamas but with all of the Palestinians civilians as well. https://streamable.com/0k1zxb
  • IDF fires artillery at team of fire fighters and paramedics attempting to rescue people. Jaw-dropping footage taken by The Guardian. https://streamable.com/cmvxun
  • Iranian ambassador to Iraq denies UN communication saying implying that Iran would back down from war. The claim is that the statement did not represent Iran's position. https://twitter.com/MarioNawfal/status/1713652394934874548
News is a bit slow right now. That's all I could find.
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ScazarMeltex
10/16/23 7:06:51 AM
#471:


VFalcone posted...
* One IDF soldier feels the war must not be with just Hamas but with all of the Palestinians civilians as well. https://streamable.com/0k1zxb
* IDF fires artillery at team of fire fighters and paramedics attempting to rescue people. Jaw-dropping footage taken by The Guardian. https://streamable.com/cmvxun
* Iranian ambassador to Iraq denies UN communication saying implying that Iran would back down from war. The claim is that the statement did not represent Iran's position. https://twitter.com/MarioNawfal/status/1713652394934874548
News is a bit slow right now. That's all I could find.
I really fucking hate when these people use the word "evil" to describe their enemies. It's fucking reductive and it's a lazy way to justify whatever horrific shit you want to do to them.

They aren't demons or devils or someother supernatural or extraplanar thing. Their crimes don't come from an innate nature that makes them desire to do terrible things. They are human beings who made choices to commit monstrous acts.

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Evil_Nice_Guy
10/16/23 7:10:58 AM
#472:


ScazarMeltex posted...
I really fucking hate when these people use the word "evil" to describe their enemies. It's fucking reductive and it's a lazy way to justify whatever horrific shit you want to do to them.

They aren't demons or devils or someother supernatural or extraplanar thing. Their crimes don't come from an innate nature that makes them desire to do terrible things. They are human beings who made choices to commit monstrous acts.

In this case (for Israel vs. Palestine), you're right. But I do believe that there are *very* few people out there who actually are pure evil. You hear about them in the news sometimes.........people who aren't mentally ill at all and know full well that what they are doing is wrong but they also ENJOY it and take pleasure in it. They actually exist. They don't have a reason for why they do those heinous things. It actually makes them happy when they do it.
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Dark_Arbron
10/16/23 7:16:29 AM
#473:


Evil_Nice_Guy posted...
In this case (for Israel vs. Palestine), you're right. But I do believe that there are *very* few people out there who actually are pure evil. You hear about them in the news sometimes.........people who aren't mentally ill at all and know full well that what they are doing is wrong but they also ENJOY it and take pleasure in it. They actually exist. They don't have a reason for why they do those heinous things. It actually makes them happy when they do it.

Usually it's suppression of empathy coupled with dehumanization of one's enemies (through both indoctrination and as a coping mechanism). People do things in war they'd likely never have done back home and would be horrified if you even suggested it.

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ZechtAurion
10/16/23 7:40:50 AM
#474:


https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1790l76/kibbutz_beeri_survivor_to_israeli_radio_israeli/

Wow, just, wow...
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tremain07
10/16/23 7:42:01 AM
#475:


ZechtAurion posted...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1790l76/kibbutz_beeri_survivor_to_israeli_radio_israeli/

Wow, just, wow...
Holy shit

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ZechtAurion
10/16/23 7:53:22 AM
#476:


tremain07 posted...
Holy shit
They just started shooting indiscriminately, she's obviously implying that without outright saying it for obvious reasons.
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divot1338
10/16/23 7:55:48 AM
#477:


If you look at how theybe operated so far its pretty clear that rescuing hostages is a secondary object.

With the presence of the tunnels theres no way to clear Gaza house to house because youd just keep getting hit from behind unless you repeatedly flatten areas with bunkerbusters. Which arent guaranteed to be successful at the depths some of them go.

This feels like theyre going to run out the clock, somehow portray the remaining hostages dead, and then flatten areas from the air after ordering everyone out.

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Foppe
10/16/23 8:06:26 AM
#478:


ZechtAurion posted...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1790l76/kibbutz_beeri_survivor_to_israeli_radio_israeli/

Wow, just, wow...
And that brings up the question, exactly how much reported is propaganda?


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ZechtAurion
10/16/23 8:10:13 AM
#479:


divot1338 posted...
If you look at how theybe operated so far its pretty clear that rescuing hostages is a secondary object.

With the presence of the tunnels theres no way to clear Gaza house to house because youd just keep getting hit from behind unless you repeatedly flatten areas with bunkerbusters. Which arent guaranteed to be successful at the depths some of them go.

This feels like theyre going to run out the clock, somehow portray the remaining hostages dead, and then flatten areas from the air after ordering everyone out.
I don't think it's in their directive at all to be honest, they keep using these types of incidents in their propaganda. I honestly believe it's their goal to cause civilian casualties.
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Foppe
10/16/23 8:47:15 AM
#480:


The hate runs deep https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/176bvaq/israeli_records_himself_mocking_gazan/

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Ricemills
10/16/23 8:53:04 AM
#481:


ZechtAurion posted...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMiddleEast/comments/1790l76/kibbutz_beeri_survivor_to_israeli_radio_israeli/

Wow, just, wow...

This is horrifying is true, but i need more evidence or testimony before taking a conclusion.
Plenty of Israeli themselves hates Bibi and his controlled IDF, like a half of them or even more.

Someone should do a full investigation on this, and report the result to public.

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ZechtAurion
10/16/23 9:16:03 AM
#482:


Ricemills posted...
This is horrifying is true, but i need more evidence or testimony before taking a conclusion.
Plenty of Israeli themselves hates Bibi and his controlled IDF, like a half of them or even more.

Someone should do a full investigation on this, and report the result to public.
All you need to do is cross examine.

For example, they're sending in ground forces instead of operatives for a "search and rescue" mission.

Or that rave where there were accounts of IDF soldiers firing between the people running away.

It also coincides with that other lady's experience, where the militant just asked for a banana.

What the IDF says and does simply doesn't make sense.
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Ricemills
10/16/23 9:21:43 AM
#483:


ZechtAurion posted...
All you need to do is cross examine.

For example, they're sending in ground forces instead of operatives for a "search and rescue" mission.

Or that rave where there were accounts of IDF soldiers firing between the people running away.

It also coincides with that other lady's experience, where the militant just asked for a banana.

What the IDF says and does simply doesn't make sense.

Well yes. If it's confirmed, then those evidences and testimonies should be published so that everyone knows.
But of course, would be hard to find a big news outlets that dares to do so.

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MrMojoRising
10/16/23 9:53:35 AM
#484:


Foppe posted...
And that brings up the question, exactly how much reported is propaganda?

As it relates to the Israel-Palestine conflict, definitely most of it. It's the only way to cope with the human rights violations

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Alteres
10/16/23 10:54:10 AM
#485:


ScazarMeltex posted...
I really fucking hate when these people use the word "evil" to describe their enemies. It's fucking reductive and it's a lazy way to justify whatever horrific shit you want to do to them.

They aren't demons or devils or someother supernatural or extraplanar thing. Their crimes don't come from an innate nature that makes them desire to do terrible things. They are human beings who made choices to commit monstrous acts.
This is so funny.

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VFalcone
10/16/23 1:42:02 PM
#486:


  • [Unconfirmed] IDF takes out a Hamas leader https://twitter.com/manniefabian/status/1713936853785547180
  • [Unconfirmed] IDF is bombing border crossing area to prevent Palestinians from leaving https://twitter.com/Saher95755738/status/1713948264792220009
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VFalcone
10/16/23 4:44:43 PM
#487:


Many people are starting to think that Israel may not invade Gaza as the "IDF invasion force" begins to sound more and more like just a tale rather than reality. News and coverage have also slowed down significantly because of that. The global rage is subsiding and people are starting to tune out.

There are also suspicions that IDF has not invaded because Hezbollah and Iran promised to go to war if they invade Gaza. Many western countries, including the US, are also trying everything they can to stop the Israeli invasion as a way to stop the huge war.

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1713992576968343756

I didn't foresee this but there's a slim chance that this incident may end without war
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tb333
10/16/23 5:48:28 PM
#488:


Alteres posted...
This is so funny.
please elaborate.

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UnrivaledKoopa
10/16/23 5:52:23 PM
#489:


VFalcone posted...
Many people are starting to think that Israel may not invade Gaza as the "IDF invasion force" begins to sound more and more like just a tale rather than reality. News and coverage have also slowed down significantly because of that. The global rage is subsiding and people are starting to tune out.

There are also suspicions that IDF has not invaded because Hezbollah and Iran promised to go to war if they invade Gaza. Many western countries, including the US, are also trying everything they can to stop the Israeli invasion as a way to stop the huge war.

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1713992576968343756

I didn't foresee this but there's a slim chance that this incident may end without war

Honestly, I dont draw the same conclusion from the linked tweet. It sounds more like we want to get our defenses ready in the north than maybe we wont invade.


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DnDer
10/16/23 7:17:33 PM
#490:


VFalcone posted...
I didn't foresee this but there's a slim chance that this incident may end without war

But it's also going to end with a million unhoused people and northern Gaza being halved, lost to Israel's bombs and bulldozers.

...their goal, for today, might be accomplished.

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ScazarMeltex
10/16/23 7:53:12 PM
#491:


UnrivaledKoopa posted...
Honestly, I dont draw the same conclusion from the linked tweet. It sounds more like we want to get our defenses ready in the north than maybe we wont invade.
Yeah, just delay the operation until you can move the men and material into place to both attack Gaza and defend in the north.

DnDer posted...
But it's also going to end with a million unhoused people and northern Gaza being halved, lost to Israel's bombs and bulldozers.

...their goal, for today, might be accomplished.
It could also be this. With the amount of bodies they've stacked already, with video of them killing civilians and the coverage of the journalists they've killed they might be willing to just crush the Northern part of Gaza and then let the cycle play out again.

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Antifar
10/16/23 8:37:06 PM
#492:


Everybody has been really out in the open with "we're doing the response to 9/11 again"
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/16/opinion/israel-gaza-iraq-iran.html

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Alteres
10/16/23 9:03:39 PM
#493:


tb333 posted...
please elaborate.
Are you at all familiar with his posts?

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thronedfire2
10/16/23 9:06:27 PM
#494:


threat of imminent invasion probably also motivated a lot of people to move faster/made hamas panic to relocate.

without that threat it would be like people staying in their houses during hurricane warnings

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TyVulpine
10/16/23 10:47:51 PM
#495:


I just saw a right-winger on X/Twitter say it's perfectly okay to round up the innocent refugees "because they're all bomb makers" and "it's better to be safe than sorry". SMH

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VFalcone
10/16/23 11:00:02 PM
#496:


Let's kill this one off already so I can make the next one
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TyVulpine
10/16/23 11:03:21 PM
#497:


Sure. :)

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Kurt_Russel
10/16/23 11:05:00 PM
#498:


K

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You gonna do something or just stand there and bleed?
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TyVulpine
10/16/23 11:05:20 PM
#499:


499

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CADE_FOSTER
10/16/23 11:05:28 PM
#500:


meh
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