Current Events > Would you support abortion on demand being the law, in your area?

(+) Yeah! (+)

That's why I believe its important to draw the line at the point where the fetus/child/person has already attained "consciousness". Because we would not allow anybody to cause the death of any other person with any other form of consciousness unless it was to save life of someone else.

This is semantics. What my proposed law is more akin to is simply saying you can't drive over a certain speed limit. You can't get an abortion after 20 weeks unless you meet an exception. We do this already. You can't assault someone unless it's self-defense.

A line has to be drawn somewhere as to where you award the fetus/child with personhood. I think we can all agree that an unborn child a couple days before birth is a person. At least, if you think an infant the day after birth is a person, then you must think an infant the day before birth is a person. Therefore, you need to find a line to draw as to when the fetus becomes a person and award it the status of personhood.

I choose consciousness as my measure of when to award a human with personhood. The best information we have right now suggests that occurs between 15-20 weeks.

Research shows that sometime between 15-20 weeks is when the fetus has developed its brain functions enough to rise to what is capable of what we might consider consciousness. Its brain is also developed enough that it has range of movement, can "kick", can suck, swallow, etc.

I chose 20 in particular, because I am especially pro-choice, and I'd like to stay on the further end of things as opposed to 15 weeks.

A line has to be drawn somewhere as to where you award the fetus/child with personhood. I think we can all agree that an unborn child a couple days before birth is a person. At least, if you think an infant the day after birth is a person, then you must think an infant the day before birth is a person. Therefore, you need to find a line to draw as to when the fetus becomes a person and award it the status of personhood.

I choose consciousness as my measure of when to award a human with personhood. The best information we have right now suggests that occurs between 15-20 weeks. Prior to 20 weeks, I think abortion should be legal for absolutely any reason at all because it isn't a person yet. Once we acknowledge that it is a person, well then the "termination" becomes ending a human life. And society has traditionally placed the highest value on human life which is why we don't allow parents to just neglect or abuse their newborn children.

until birth?

obviously not unless it's an emergency

Not... really...? No?

And it's honestly immaterial. The abortion argument, when you strip it down to the bare bones, is about when a woman does or does not lose the right to determine what happens to her body.

(Also, the sooner you grant personhood to a fetus, the sooner McFall vs Shimp comes into play and abortions become legal for every second of the pregnancy. A person cannot be compelled to give their body (or fluids or marrow) to another person, even if that other person would die without that material. But all of that is incidental to the bigger point above of when you decide a woman becomes a slave and incubator.)

Cite this best information. And then define consciousness in a way all parties can agree upon.

You're going to run into more problems than you expect trying to quantify that and then set policy based on it.

No, that's poor criteria, because as technology increases, the limit will approach fertilization. Or maybe we should use estimates for survivability based on Biblical levels of technology?

Yes because practically no one's actually having an abortion at 9 months unless something is terribly wrong and it's medically necessary.

but prior to the point when the child actually gets adopted, we don't allow the mother to just set the child on the street curb.

I chose 20 in particular, because I am especially pro-choice

But if we are talking about a child the day before birth, isn't the woman also having a choice of what to do with another person's body? If you allow an abortion right before birth, why not allow mothers to do what they want with their child just days after the birth?

Does the very moment of passing through birth magically bestow personhood on someone?

Doesn't sound like you are.

Yeah I kinda agree, do many pro life people kinda say this?

My point is that the line has to be drawn somewhere to determine when a being becomes a person

I'm pro choice until it gets to the 6- up month range. Then I'm not really sure how I feel about it

Unless it's life or death or something

Why? Why is this so absolutely necessary to you? Especially when your ideas for restrictions are arbitrary at best.

Are we also going to assign prebirth SSNs to collect off of? You gonna be able to put a fetus on your tax returns?

Bodily autonomy is never binary for any individual. Like almost all things, it exists on a spectrum for all people.

what?

Either you own your own body, or someone else does.

We require children to get certain vaccinations to attend public schools.

Paying taxes is an infringement on your bodily autonomy.

The bodily autonomy argument is the most conservative argument aside from "life at conception because God" as you can make when it comes to abortion.

Paying taxes is an infringement on your bodily autonomy.