Current Events > I don't fit in at work

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It's absolutely soul destroying when your the odd one out at work, I may as well be a fuckin alien. No one speaks to me because I'm introverted and when I do speak I'm spoken down to abruptly. No one says hi to me and ignore me completely. It hurts because I do my job and have proven my ability the past year, yet I receive this treatment.

Today I was met with a hostile awkward silence simply for mentioning that I'm on my break, like wtf is that about. I'm actively looking for another job, I shouldn't have to feel this way but I've been left with no choice. I've done nothin wrong to justify this treatment, which suggests it's either the way I look, my shy personality or both.

Apparently you don't fit in on the ps5 board anymore either

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]


I'm trying but I feel stuck here for the time being. In life, there's some environments that will be worse than others and this is 1 of them. It's almost like a subconscious contempt for no reason other than I'm quiet. Being introverted doesn't warrant such hostility, in fact many introverts are some of the most beautiful, free spirits on the planet with abundance of compassion.

I think it's because they perceive me as 'low status', being unusually quiet automatically categorises someone as beneath them in their eyes. This is an issue that a lot of introverts face, society is very judgemental but it's not overly expressed to save face. It's very apparent through body language alone, the perception they have of you, silence speaks volumes.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

I think it's because they perceive me as 'low status', being unusually quiet automatically categorises someone as beneath them in their eyes.

I think you are way, way over thinking it...

I'm an introvert that works night shift with a bad case of resting bitch face and when the morning crew comes in, like 99% don't acknowledge me but I doubt they're even paying attention to me (even negatively) and are just focused on other shit...

random_man9119 posted...

I think you are way, way over thinking it...

I'm an introvert that works night shift with a bad case of resting b**** face and when the morning crew comes in, like 99% don't acknowledge me but I doubt they're even paying attention to me (even negatively) and are just focused on other s***.

It just seems that a lot of people in the workplace think they're better than everyone else. There's always those colleagues that are over bearing, very bossy and rude. I can't stand those people and the workplace is full of them. It elevates my social anxiety having to work with over bearing, bossy people.

I'm very perceptive, so can gather immediately if someone's friendly or not. There's the odd few that are genuinely warm and welcoming, and it's like a ray of sunshine. I have a similar moody disposition due to my depression but I always express a friendly tone when spoken to, yet I'm treated like I'm nothin despite proving my value.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

It just seems that a lot of people in the workplace think they're better than everyone else. There's always those colleagues that are over bearing, very bossy and rude. I can't stand those people and the workplace is full of them. It elevates my social anxiety having to work with over bearing, bossy people.

I'm very perceptive, so can gather immediately if someone's friendly or not. There's the odd few that are genuinely warm and welcoming, and it's like a ray of sunshine. I have a similar moody disposition due to my depression but I always express a friendly tone when spoken to, yet I'm treated like I'm nothin despite proving my value.

Do you have at least one friend in your workplace? Because there's always strength in numbers.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I do this too
I work with like the nicest people I've ever met and I routinely tell them I'm not interested when they go out of their way to befriend me. Then they'll like lay on the floor in my office anyway and talk to me for like an hour while I'm trying to get shit done

i never fit in anywhere, and it takes me a while to get accustomed. first step is forcing yourself out of your comfort zone and getting to know someone. anyone. but no one's going to pull you out of that first step, you need to do it yourself. whether it's joining a social event, or just merely chit chatting with someone about interests or life.

there are actions you can take. sitting and distancing yourself is an action in itself, and one that you're actively taking. of course no one's going to approach you if you keep turning down the opportunity. learning how to deal with it is definitely a skill that's worth practicing. you won't always fit in everywhere, but you'll have less chances of feeling like an outsider.

yeah I'm on friendly terms with coworkers, but like, I'm the introvert but still have to start conversations or there would be work talk only, which long term leads to less friendly terms.

GuerrillaSoldier posted...

i never fit in anywhere, and it takes me a while to get accustomed. first step is forcing yourself out of your comfort zone and getting to know someone. anyone. but no one's going to pull you out of that first step, you need to do it yourself. whether it's joining a social event, or just merely chit chatting with someone about interests or life.

there are actions you can take. sitting and distancing yourself is an action in itself, and one that you're actively taking. of course no one's going to approach you if you keep turning down the opportunity. learning how to deal with it is definitely a skill that's worth practicing. you won't always fit in everywhere, but you'll have less chances of feeling like an outsider.

ye I'm the same, I've never fitted in anywhere which suggests it's either how I look, how quiet I am or both. I believe that people are very judgemental on a subconscious level, this explains the level of passive contempt, but because its passive they get away with it. The few interactions we have speaks volumes of how we're perceived. No eye contact, rude tone, abrupt, silent treatment, all that bullshit. This is exactly how introverts are treated on a daily basis and we're expected to just suffer. We're human, we have feelings, we're not robots yet we're treated like we're nothin just because we're quiet.

Humble_Novice posted...

Do you have at least one friend in your workplace? Because there's always strength in numbers.

None at all although there's some that are friendlier than others. It's always been like this for me which is so demoralising as I've always done my job to the best of my ability. This suggests to me that people are subconsciously judging my short height or my big nose in addition to being an introvert. Prejudice is very real and it exists, it's just hidden from plain sight.

There can be no other reason because they treat others normally, they treat me like I'm sub human disposable trash.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

It's absolutely soul destroying when your the odd one out at work, I may as well be a fuckin alien. No one speaks to me because I'm introverted and when I do speak I'm spoken down to abruptly. No one says hi to me and ignore me completely. It hurts because I do my job and have proven my ability the past year, yet I receive this treatment.

Today I was met with a hostile awkward silence simply for mentioning that I'm on my break, like wtf is that about. I'm actively looking for another job, I shouldn't have to feel this way but I've been left with no choice. I've done nothin wrong to justify this treatment, which suggests it's either the way I look, my shy personality or both.

@TeamSilent4Life And that's exactly what it is, TC. Treatment. It's a choice on their behalf to treat one person as one thing and another person as another. You don't see them looking at us like that when they're talking to their friends in The Clique for example do you.

One of the worst is those quick looks down when you're walkin past a colleague in the hallways. They'll give you a quick glance and then immediately avert their eyes downwards to the ground as they glance past you. It's classic passive-aggressive behaviour.

And it's this very passive-aggressive tactic that makes it impossible to stop. You cannot complain to HR about these things so here we are.... stuck & perpetually trapped in this game of villification all due to how others perceive us. That will never be fair, TC.

^exactly, I'm very perceptive and can read people's energy from the moment they enter a room, I even said that to the staff today.

Today was mixed, towards the end I felt so much better as I was on duty with 3 staff who radiate a positive energy. I'm rarely ever on duty with these staff but it felt like a release to be on duty with them. All of a sudden I was enabled to be myself, having a sing, making them laugh and talking about my weekend confidently, no inhibitions. I told them I keep it real which I think they appreciate.

Then you have the staff that are the complete opposite, miserable as sin, over bearing, bossy, ignorant, rude, all those lovely human qualities. I feel so fuckin depressed and anxious around these people, it dims my light considerably. Unfortunately I have no choice but to work alongside those people on various duties. Today I simply asked if I'm expected on duty at the given time, I was completely blanked then I repeated myself and she was like 'OH SORRY'.

Rude as fuck for no reason. This is the vibe I've had for so long. But today at least reminded me that there are people who seem to like me, the 3 I was on duty with towards the end. Whilst I suffer with depression, I have a positive energy if I'm enabled to be myself. I'm sure you have those staff that your treading eggshells around. Simply speaking up is so unbearably awkward and hostile around those people, like wtf is their problem. They're not friendly or welcoming whatsoever, they don't even say hi or barely acknowledge our existence, it's so rude and uncomfortable.

This suggests some prejudice on some level because there's no reason to suggest otherwise. I'm naturally very introverted especially around those people but then I'm more of a free spirit around the other people. That version of ourselves is clear evidence of hope, that we can be liked and we can feel free in ourselves, it's just that we've been oppressed for so long, we've been led to believe that we're nothin which isn't true.

GuerrillaSoldier posted...

there are actions you can take. sitting and distancing yourself is an action in itself, and one that you're actively taking.

Some great advice @GuerrillaSoldier Just today I went out of my way to conversate with one of the girls at work who whilst is always pleasant; it's just never really clicked between us due to lack of communication so I started asking them about their new jacket and it sparked a wonderful conversation.

@TeamSilent4Life I just popped into the Post Office earlier and just started talking about the weather with the person behind the counter. We're engaging ppl when we go out of our way, it's just a shame that most people are goin around the shops n' work with a face like iron because when we get approached we're always polite and pleasant in our response.

It's just a shame that so many others are locked into this imprisoning mindset because I can see the potential there. I can't wait for you start a new job now tbh TC. I hope you keep applyin and get somethin.

I don't fit in anywhere.

@ShiftBlood Thanks, I'll be honest, I was very nearly sacked again last week due to my timekeeping. I've been called into the office so many times in regards to my punctuality. They don't even tolerate 5 minutes late in a school environment, it's extremely regimented. This week I've been on time so far but I'm on thin ice. I've been waking up earlier because I've been getting taxi's 15 minutes before I'm due to start which isn't sustainable, last Friday I was 20 minutes late and was called immediately to the headmistress office.

She sat me down and said 'I won't keep you long' which usually indicates your arse is cooked. I mentioned my insomnia and you know what, I honestly believe that saved my sorry arse because it counts as a health issue. Her tone noticeably shifted as soon as I mentioned that, then she was like 'just don't let it happen again'. To paraphrase SAS Who Dares Wins "Making a mistake is natural, to repeat it is a problem".

I even said today that I'm a free spirit and like to be around people that reciprocate that energy, I'm very transparent even in person. I hate being fake for the sake of some corporation. We're conditioned to be oppressed for so long by negative energy around us which leads us into a false sense of belief that we're not worthy, that we're unlikeable but it's not true, as evident by those moments we can be our authentic selves around the right people that shine our light. I had to be reminded of that day today.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

@ShiftBlood Thanks, I'll be honest, I was very nearly sacked again last week due to my timekeeping. I've been called into the office so many times in regards to my punctuality. They don't even tolerate 5 minutes late in a school environment, it's extremely regimented. This week I've been on time so far but I'm on thin ice. I've been waking up earlier because I've been getting taxi's 15 minutes before I'm due to start which isn't sustainable, last Friday I was 20 minutes late and was called immediately to the headmistress office.

She sat me down and said 'I won't keep you long' which usually indicates your arse is cooked. I mentioned my insomnia and you know what, I honestly believe that saved my sorry arse because it counts as a health issue. Her tone noticeably shifted as soon as I mentioned that, then she was like 'just don't let it happen again'. To paraphrase SAS Who Dares Wins "Making a mistake is natural, to repeat it is a problem".

Getting Taxis to work everyday must be killin the bank balance? Is there not a better way to get there? Just get applying cos even if they don't sack you it's hardly a bed of roses. There are better places out there but you just have to go thru that initial pain of starting in an unknown place and the dreaded job interview process which if you've got insomnia that can only heighten that angst.

I even said today that I'm a free spirit and like to be around people that reciprocate that energy, I'm very transparent even in person. I hate being fake for the sake of some corporation. We're conditioned to be oppressed for so long by negative energy around us which leads us into a false sense of belief that we're not worthy, that we're unlikeable but it's not true, as evident by those moments we can be our authentic selves around the right people that shine our light. I had to be reminded of that day today.

Hostile envirnoments mean that we close up because we're aware of it; as sensitive souls we're acutely intune with people around us and what vibe they're giving off thus if they're uptight & negative we are the ones that feel it the most because our receptors are so open.

The girl at work was not giving off a good vibe for so long but then I thought to myself that maybe she is simply anxious in herself so I sparked what turned out to be a great conversation. Some ppl are very good at covering it up. I think she just didn't know what to say so someone had to start somethin. It's time to start tryna bring some of these ppl into the light too, TC. We have that power to make them feel more comfortable so let's start doin it.

Have you had a working environment in this job sector that wasn't like this?

@ShiftBlood She sounds very similar to someone I work with but the 1 I work with is very over bearing and she gives mixed signals. Its funny because the 1st few days she was chatting to me at the bus stop and we walked in town together. Over time, we barely even said a word to each other, any efforts I made were met with a moody disposition, like wtf.

I think silence speaks volumes, silence is so detrimental to a relationship without even realising. Over time the silence gets louder and louder which manifests into hostility. Many of us with social anxiety know this all too well or even introverts in general. If I'm in the staff room with a brew, she doesn't say a word to me. I get that work is stressful but that doesn't justify contempt for those around you, I even mentioned that today to someone. I ain't got time for people who piss me around with their negative energy.

I often get the bus at the same stop after work, I remember running to another stop to avoid her only to realise she's stood at the exact stop I was running towards. She saw me running up then running back down again to avoid her then I ran back to the stop she was at to get my bus. This was after our shift together, to say that was awkward was an understatement. Meanwhile, I get taxi's with another co-worker all the time, there's none of this bullshit hostility, what a world eh.

Guide posted...

Have you had a working environment in this job sector that wasn't like this?

Not really tbh, the last school I worked at was more friendly and welcoming but I still didn't fit in. But then I banter with some friendly staff which reminds me that I do fit in which leaves me conflicted in my over riding feelings. Every working environment I've never fitted in, even at college or school because I'm highly introverted. But when people get to know the real me, I shine and express myself well, similar to ShiftBlood in that respect.

I remember being bullied at my job in fast food. I was often called big nose and was locked in the freezer by management. This shows thats even some managers are absolute low lives, some will abuse their power of authority. I quit a job at a care provider after 8 shifts because the alpha were obnoxious.

They literally took the piss out of me because I couldn't fold clothes or cook certain things due to my dyspraxia. I can't tie my shoelaces, swim or ride a bike either. So I rang the head boss, told her straight I'm quitting because of the horrible staff and she was fuckin fumin. It felt fuckin liberating, I can't imagine working in care ever again.

Whilst there's many genuine workers in care, there are some that are corrupt in some way due to the sensitivity of the work involved. If someone fucks up for instance, accountability is shifted or framed in a better light to save face. It's also 1 of the most demanding industries, I even had a manager stand over me as I was counting expenses for a resident who I took out in town. I was shouted at for every miscount despite my basic skills in maths.

I then realised fuck this for a living, and handed in my notice a few shifts later. Care work and factory are the worst jobs I've ever done period, I'm proud of what I do now as a TA but I preferred it last year as I was directly involved in the higher curriculum. Anyway, sorry for the ramble, at the very least it makes for an interesting read as it's fascinating to know how these industries operate.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

@ShiftBlood She sounds very similar to someone I work with but the 1 I work with is very over bearing and she gives mixed signals. Its funny because the 1st few days she was chatting to me at the bus stop and we walked in town together. Over time, we barely even said a word to each other, any efforts I made were met with a moody disposition, like wtf.

I think silence speaks volumes, silence is so detrimental to a relationship without even realising. Over time the silence gets louder and louder which manifests into hostility. Many of us with social anxiety know this all too well or even introverts in general. If I'm in the staff room with a brew, she doesn't say a word to me. I get that work is stressful but that doesn't justify contempt for those around you, I even mentioned that today to someone. I ain't got time for people who piss me around with their negative energy.

I often get the bus at the same stop after work, I remember running to another stop to avoid her only to realise she's stood at the exact stop I was running towards. She saw me running up then running back down again to avoid her then I ran back to the stop she was at to get my bus. This was after our shift together, to say that was awkward was an understatement. Meanwhile, I get taxi's with another co-worker all the time, there's none of this bullshit hostility, what a world eh.

The workspace is a minefield of potentially awkward scenarios all housed by this silly enforced game that everyone must abide to. If you could just be yourself it would go a long way to making things smoother all-round yet we have to act under this blanket of predefined rules that stiffles everyone - especially shy and sensitive character types - into a position that is at odds with the truer inner self so this furthers our retirement into the shell of insecurity.

Thus you dont feel comfortable around most of these colleagues and that work space and when you add that to the strict regimented atmosphere it turns your angst up to 100.

The bare minimum these coworkers should be doing is practicing basic respect yet it's either overt contempt in their tone of voice or the far more frequent displays of passive aggressive distain. We have to live with this week in week out no less.

I'm not sure what the solution is TC other than moving to a new place but then that process too comes with all the unjust caveats; just look at the job interview process and tell me that isn't a masterclass in judgement.

@ShiftBlood I honestly can't stand most people, I prefer animals than a lot of humans tbh. This is based on the way I've been treated as an outcast for most my life. I'm tired of dealing with pretentious people who treat me like I'm nothin.

I don't understand the mixed signals at all, 1 day someone is chatting to me the next awkward silence, like wtf. I may as well be a fuckin ghost to these people, I can be in a room and they'll just chat amongst each other like I don't exist. I'm friendly yet I get nothin back, yet it's the introverts fault for being an introvert, it's bullshit and says more about them tbh. It's clear prejudice beneath the surface, if your quiet your judged as 'different'. Someone asked me if I'm going to the christmas do, why would I sit around a table and have dinner with people who wouldn't piss me on me if I was on fire?.

GrandConjuraton posted...

I don't fit in anywhere.

Same, if your perceived as different your treated as such. If we don't conform to the conventional look, height, face, personality, status we're essentially ostracised. As a short arse introvert with a beak like nose, I clearly don't fit the bill. Most people at work are fuckin giants for a start, this explains why tall people are generally those in power. You rarely ever see a short manlet as a CEO for instance, my bosses are 6ft+ women.

Height is clearly attributed to status, there are exceptions but generally this is the case. Our face also has to fit because the face is what people see the most.
We live in a very shallow society were standards of beauty have been raised exponentially as a result of dating apps and social media. These are clear factors why I've been ignored for over a year now in this organisation. Sure it doesn't help to be an introvert with mental health issues, but that's a smokescreen excuse to mask clear underlying prejudice. Almost everyone judges on some deep seated level, this is reflected in their behaviour towards someone of perceived low status.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

@ShiftBlood I honestly can't stand most people, I prefer animals than a lot of humans tbh. This is based on the way I've been treated as an outcast for most my life. I'm tired of dealing with pretentious people who treat me like I'm nothin.

I don't understand the mixed signals at all, 1 day someone is chatting to me the next awkward silence, like wtf. I may as well be a fuckin ghost to these people, I can be in a room and they'll just chat amongst each other like I don't exist. I'm friendly yet I get nothin back, yet it's the introverts fault for being an introvert, it's bullshit and says more about them tbh. It's clear prejudice beneath the surface, if your quiet your judged as 'different'. Someone asked me if I'm going to the christmas do, why would I sit around a table and have dinner with people who wouldn't piss me on me if I was on fire?

Height definitley plays a part, TC. Where I work most of the people in higher roles are 6-foot+. It was a similar case in my previous job. Just when they walk down the corridor they carry with them this posture and countenance - you know the one I'm talking about.

Do you think things are going to be bearable at your current work or are you gonna look to leave? Cos this has been goin on for so long now and I'm not seein any signs of progress with regards to your colleagues behaviour?

ShiftBlood posted...

Height definitley plays a part, TC. Where I work most of the people in higher roles are 6-foot+. It was a similar case in my previous job. Just when they walk down the corridor they carry with them this posture and countenance - you know the one I'm talking about.

Do you think things are going to be bearable at your current work or are you gonna look to leave? Cos this has been goin on for so long now and I'm not seein any signs of progress with regards to your colleagues behaviour?

I'm actively looking for another job but would have to be prepared to get up much earlier at 7am, I can't even be arsed to get up for 12 as I go sleep at 6am. I've always been very unique tbh, from my mannerisms to my lack of independence and highly introverted yet flamboyant personality. I eat my tea in my room with my soaps on my laptop. I rarely ever leave my room other than work. I can't even tie my own shoelaces.

As a result, I've suffered so much with anxiety and depression which is inevitable as a recluse. Someone mentioned on a forum about self fulfilling prophecy, which is essentially thinking something into reality. For instance 'I am unlikeable therefore I am' or 'I'm too depressed to do anything'. These are self destructive belief systems that we've hard wired our minds into. It's essential to challenge these thoughts in order to move forward, replacing them with more positive affirmations. It's easier said than done, especially with intrusive disorders like anxiety and depression but it's achievable with the desired effort and application.

I consider height discrimination no different than weight or other personal judgement. In fact, it's probably the most common form of discrimination. Everyone judges a short person, they even express it vocally and take the piss because it's normalised to discriminate against a short person. This is apparent in all aspects of life from business to dating culture, that's why people say 'tall dark and handsome' without a second thought. 1 of the highest suicide rates is found in short men, yet this is never highlighted because no one gives a fuck.

Today was more positive as I do my job to the best of my ability and you know what, that's all they can ask for and they can't say shit if we do our job and we're on time.

Most of them still ignorant towards me regardless, no one greets me and I barely get a thanks despite being an effective assistant. Without support staff, an organisation would die on it's arse because they're the lifeblood and keep the ship sailing so to speak, I even said this to the cleaning ladies.

Apparently a manager said that I'm a really nice guy to someone. Funny how she hasn't showed that to me in my entire year's service, like why the fuck not express that to me in person instead of the awkward silence?.

Many people in life are rude and ignorant as evident in the workplace were you really see 1st hand the social dynamics at play. Many people are also two faced, and behave entirely differently amongst their click. 1 minute some people are fine with you, the next they barely acknowledge your existence around their click of 'besties'. I'm very perceptive so I see through these bullshit politics. I'm clearly judged on some level due to my short height and big nose in addition to being highly introverted. I'm a nice guy as that manager pointed out, but nice is not enough for some people. Being nice still gets you judged and treated with contempt if your perceived low status in any conceivable way, it's a sad world we live in full of injustice.

I'm very introverted and often keep to myself, however my worth ethic and helping others has naturally drawn my coworkers to me and appreciate me, to where they usually initiate conversation and volunteer their assistance to me.

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this, it does sound terrible and soul crushing.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

I'm actively looking for another job but would have to be prepared to get up much earlier at 7am, I can't even be arsed to get up for 12 as I go sleep at 6am. I've always been very unique tbh, from my mannerisms to my lack of independence and highly introverted yet flamboyant personality. I eat my tea in my room with my soaps on my laptop. I rarely ever leave my room other than work. I can't even tie my own shoelaces.

Are there not other jobs in the same field that have similar start times? Because of your chronic insomnia it would be good if you could get a similar schedule surely. Hope there's actually viable jobs out there to apply to.

As a result, I've suffered so much with anxiety and depression which is inevitable as a recluse. Someone mentioned on a forum about self fulfilling prophecy, which is essentially thinking something into reality. For instance 'I am unlikeable therefore I am' or 'I'm too depressed to do anything'. These are self destructive belief systems that we've hard wired our minds into. It's essential to challenge these thoughts in order to move forward, replacing them with more positive affirmations. It's easier said than done, especially with intrusive disorders like anxiety and depression but it's achievable with the desired effort and application.

Yeah the power of the minds really is something quite profound, TC. But if it can think for the negative then it can think for the positive too. Prophecies of positivity are just as accessable but it's about braking out of the negative thinking first. It's a lifetimes habit so it's difficult to break the cycle of decades.

I consider height discrimination no different than weight or other personal judgement. In fact, it's probably the most common form of discrimination. Everyone judges a short person, they even express it vocally and take the piss because it's normalised to discriminate against a short person. This is apparent in all aspects of life from business to dating culture, that's why people say 'tall dark and handsome' without a second thought. 1 of the highest suicide rates is found in short men, yet this is never highlighted because no one gives a fuck.

It is weird how prejudice against certain physical traits is considered heresy in this society yet against others it is not.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

Apparently a manager said that I'm a really nice guy to someone. Funny how she hasn't showed that to me in my entire year's service, like why the fuck not express that to me in person instead of the awkward silence?

I think that might be the first positive thing they've ever bloody done but it wasn't to your face though. It's all very well complimenting y'all but it kinda sucks when 99.8% of their interactions with you face-to-face are almost non-existant.

Kradek posted...

I'm very introverted and often keep to myself, however my worth ethic and helping others has naturally drawn my coworkers to me and appreciate me, to where they usually initiate conversation

This is not what's been like at all for TC. In fact, they seem to have gone the other direction and just outwardly villified them.

is this a work?

ShiftBlood posted...

This is not what's been like at all for TC. In fact, they seem to have gone the other direction and just outwardly villified them.

I know, I acknowledged that in the other half of my post and sympathized with them.

Just showing there is a different route it could have gone and expressing I wish it was the same for them.

Alteres posted...

is this a work?

Nah it's a Shoot, Alteres.

Kradek posted...

I know, I acknowledged that in the other half of my post and sympathized with them.

Just showing there is a different route it could have gone and expressing I wish it was the same for them.

Any advice you can offer TC for when they start this new job?... Is there anything specific you can think of that would help them ingratiate better in the first few weeks keepin on mind that they've very shy especially around new and unknown ppl? Anythin you did or like how did you act towards the new coworkers?

ShiftBlood posted...

Nah it's a Shoot, Alteres.

Any advice you can offer TC for when they start this new job?... Is there anything specific you can think of that would help them ingratiate better in the first few weeks keepin on mind that they've very shy especially around new and unknown ppl? Anythin you did or like how did you act towards the new coworkers?

Honestly I guess it depends on the type of work setting. People have responded to my authenticity; when I help others I don't ask for it in return or talk about them owing me. And over time, for whatever their reason, this naturally draws them into helping me as well and building a bond. If he works in an industry that is based off people in cubicles doing their own work, then that's not something that would help.

I'm sure they've already tried it, however people love talking about themselves far more than hearing us talk about ourselves. Asking people questions about their interests, family, life, history, etc. gets them to open up far more than voluntarily sharing things about yourself.

I haven't fully read through the thread so I'm not stating any condemnation or commentary on anything TC may or may not have mentioned. You asked me what I think may help, it may seem generic, however that's what came to mind.

Kradek posted...

Honestly I guess it depends on the type of work setting. People have responded to my authenticity; when I help others I don't ask for it in return or talk about them owing me. And over time, for whatever their reason, this naturally draws them into helping me as well and building a bond. If he works in an industry that is based off people in cubicles doing their own work, then that's not something that would help.

It's in a Teaching environment with children, Kradek. Which makes it doubly troubling when you consider that that is supposed to a supportive and inclusive microcosm by its very nature yet some of the Staff are bein villified for the most petty of reasons.

I'm sure they've already tried it, however people love talking about themselves far more than hearing us talk about ourselves. Asking people questions about their interests, family, life, history, etc. gets them to open up far more than voluntarily sharing things about yourself.

Due to TC's shyness they find it very difficult to start up these conversations and begin asking questions but I like this advice as maybe it is a tactic they can try to break the ever-present ice. They're always very polite when spoken to by others despite their apparent distance, which in your job you had some clearly compassionate people whereas with TC it's always been open and also passive-aggressive villification in all of their previous jobs as well.

I haven't fully read through the thread so I'm not stating any condemnation or commentary on anything TC may or may not have mentioned. You asked me what I think may help, it may seem generic, however that's what came to mind.

I think even it's a seemingly generic notion, don't be afraid to say what you think might help. Anything can potentially be a starting spark for progression tbh.

@Kradek ye I work as a TA, it's not all glammed up to be as it can be very challenging due to the nature of the work, no 2 days are the same. 1 day the kids will be well behaved the next it's a fuckin circus. It's those days that make me question my entire career as it can be very stressful to keep repeating myself to manage behaviour.

Some days I excel, the next I'm drowning, it's that kinda job. Any TA or teacher will tell you that behaviour management is the most stressful aspect of the job. Remaining calm and rational is absolutely imperative in this role, which is what I am I guess. It's ironic that I suffer with anxiety and depression which are triggered by stress yet I'm able to channel that energy effectively in this job. The most rewarding aspect is the learning, it felt so rewarding to support kids in the classroom in their comprehension of reading, spelling and so forth. I now work in the lower age group which is more play based, not as fulfilling tbh but as a TA we have to accept our role which is ever changing each term.

@ShiftBlood There's a couple people I get along with, I was chattin to 1 today in the staff room and she agreed with me that the staff are rude. I told her we're treated like outcasts, like we're a fuckin alien. It was the wedding of 1 of the staff apparently and we didn't receive an invite because no one gives a fuck about anyone outside the established click. Not that I would have gone anyway, that person has barely said a word to me all year, even blanking me in the hallway so it'd be awkward as fuck to attend his wedding.

I avoid such occasions in general as it reminds me how lonely I am. Some people just have it all in life, they have the status which lays the foundations for everything else. From a young age these people had a support network which helps to facilitate a successful life. They have the height, the looks and everything else. Generally speakin, I do have a handsome face except for my nose which is like penguin from Batman. My height undermines me greatly, 5'5 is frowned upon as a man. Even lifts don't compensate for the fact I'm short as shit. I can't stand to be around tall people, and they're fuckin giants in the work place.

Lately, I've been expressing myself more towards my truest self which has made people interact with me as you alluded to yourself. It's funny how simply speakin up a bit more can gravitate people around you. All of a sudden, people recognise 'wow he has a fuckin voice' and he seems interesting. I make people laugh with my random anecdotes, the way I express myself is very quirky and flamboyant.

But you what, I'm aware that these people are just 'acquaintances' at the end of the day, most not even that. The workplace is not really a place to make friends although some do but it's a tricky environment to navigate unless your of perceived status. Even the ones we get along with will just remain as acquaintances, if they were friends they'd BE friends and not some bullshit acquaintance who we pass the time with at work.

We're just faces in time, cogs in a wheel of some soulless corporation that is a business first and foremost. I even said that to the 1 who is friendly to me. These people wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire, most of them wanted me long gone but they can't dispute my work ethic as a TA. That's my ramble for the day, I don't mind typing but usually aim to be more concise, this is insightful stuff tbh.

TeamSilent4Life posted... @ShiftBlood There's a couple people I get along with, I was chattin to 1 today in the staff room and she agreed with me that the staff are rude. I told her we're treated like outcasts, like we're a fuckin alien. It was the wedding of 1 of the staff apparently and we didn't receive an invite because no one gives a fuck about anyone outside the established click. Not that I would have gone anyway, that person has barely said a word to me all year, even blanking me in the hallway so it'd be awkward as fuck to attend his wedding. I avoid such occasions in general as it reminds me how lonely I am.

It's good that there is someone there that isn't part of The Clique and you can converse with them on an open and honest level, TC. That's some respite atleast, surely. And yeah you can forget about attending these big arse 'Events' for coworkers all in the name of other people. It's all about them. Yet you sit there lookin around and it just highlights the gap in values and just how silly the entire game is that they're all playing tbh. You couldn't pay me to go to one of those things. We are not on that wavelength at all. It's nice for them but it's the game that they have chosen to play, and competing in their game would simply be failing self-expression, TC. Who you are is far more important than any superficial.

I do have a handsome face except for my nose which is like penguin from Batman. My height undermines me greatly, 5'5 is frowned upon as a man. Even lifts don't compensate for the fact I'm short as shit. I can't stand to be around tall people, and they're fuckin giants in the work place.

Yup all that potential is all there just haven't really been given much of a chance tbh. Yet you get zero empathy because for some reason height and nose are allowed to be prejudiced against yet other physical traits are not.

Lately, I've been expressing myself more towards my truest self which has made people interact with me as you alluded to yourself. It's funny how simply speakin up a bit more can gravitate people around you. All of a sudden, people recognise 'wow he has a fuckin voice' and he seems interesting. I make people laugh with my random anecdotes, the way I express myself is very quirky and flamboyant.

The power within is there just gotta get thru the emotional fences sometimes which is possible with practice. Even today a passing small talk in the corridor at work could have been just that yet...... I decided to continue talkin rather than walk away and it went on for like 5 mins. That was a choice, TC. I chose to stay.We have these choices all around us every day.

I'm aware that these people are just 'acquaintances' at the end of the day, most not even that. The workplace is not really a place to make friends although some do but it's a tricky environment to navigate unless your of perceived status. Even the ones we get along with will just remain as acquaintances, if they were friends they'd BE friends and not some bullshit acquaintance who we pass the time with at work.

Yeah it's a tricky one tbh cos you want to have warm and comfortin relationships around people you have to see each day naturally yet knowing where to draw the line is difficult. Too far and its ice too close and there is a potential fire. Also people come and go in these jobs and we all move on so then that adds another layer of complexity yet u hear some people end up gettin married thru work so yeah..... another emotional minefield we have to traverse each day; it never ends. This girl at work is chatty when spoken to but distant if you don't start anything so its a classic example of they are probably feelin the similar vibes to you TC. We have the power to show understandin to that too cos of our sensitivity cos sometimes what might appear to be ice is actually a beautiful fire.

@ShiftBlood I reckon if I had a life of my own outside of work then it wouldn't bother me as much. I've honestly never understood how fitting in comes so naturally to most people. A lot of my insecurities are rooted in low self esteem; my height, my big nose, being an introvert.

I definitely believe prejudice exists in every walk of life, people form subconscious judgments of a person immediately. With a nose like mine, that's what people notice immediately, it's considered a deformity tbh. From the front I'm not bad looking at all, I've even been told I'm handsome by many women based on my profile pictures and I have very nice eyes and a slim build. I've had lady friends, flings and many one night stands which I'm grateful for as I know there's a whole community of men who have had nothin whatsoever.

From the side, I may as well be a fuckin pelican, attributed from my pakistan heritage. I'm half which gives me those striking features, my mum and dad had big, aquiline shaped noses. I guess we all have imperfections, but for some these imperfections really stand out.

I think we get caught up on our imperfections but forget the positive qualities we do have, depression is insidious like that, it likes to lie to us. I have a beautiful spirit and more understanding than most around me but unfortunately that's not enough for some people. Many people treat you exactly how they perceive you regardless of your positive values.

That's why quiet, introverted types are often spoken down to and treated with contempt. It feels like we have to seek permission to even ask a simple question. The tone I receive is often abrupt for no fuckin reason, it pisses me off so much. If that's not prejudice I don't know what is. I remember being asked if 'I sell bombs' when I gave my name in a pub once, then his mate asked if 'I'm circumcised'.

And you know what? I'd take that treatment any day over this ignorant contempt at work. As fucked as that was, at least that was obvious if that makes sense.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

@ShiftBlood I reckon if I had a life of my own outside of work then it wouldn't bother me as much. I've honestly never understood how fitting in comes so naturally to most people. A lot of my insecurities are rooted in low self esteem; my height, my big nose, being an introvert.

I definitely believe prejudice exists in every walk of life, people form subconscious judgments of a person immediately. With a nose like mine, that's what people notice immediately, it's considered a deformity tbh. From the front I'm not bad looking at all, I've even been told I'm handsome by many women based on my profile pictures and I have very nice eyes and a slim build. I've had lady friends, flings and many one night stands which I'm grateful for as I know there's a whole community of men who have had nothin whatsoever.

From the side, I may as well be a fuckin pelican, attributed from my pakistan heritage. I'm half which gives me those striking features, my mum and dad had big, aquiline shaped noses. I guess we all have imperfections, but for some these imperfections really stand out.

I think we get caught up on our imperfections but forget the positive qualities we do have, depression is insidious like that, it likes to lie to us. I have a beautiful spirit and more understanding than most around me but unfortunately that's not enough for some people. Many people treat you exactly how they perceive you regardless of your positive values.

That's why quiet, introverted types are often spoken down to and treated with contempt. It feels like we have to seek permission to even ask a simple question. The tone I receive is often abrupt for no fuckin reason, it pisses me off so much. If that's not prejudice I don't know what is. I remember being asked if 'I sell bombs' when I gave my name in a pub once, then his mate asked if 'I'm circumcised'.

And you know what? I'd take that treatment any day over this ignorant contempt at work. As fucked as that was, at least that was obvious if that makes sense.

Prejudice does indeed exist which is a shame but we have the power to push on through it all. The hope is a powerful light that continues to usher us forth, TC.

If you've got hope you've got almost everythin you need to work forward towards change. Change in how to converse with strangers in the Post Office or that icey coworker.

Time to start taking self-empowerment to the next level at work. If there are any apparently shy people then the onus is on us from now on to spark a conversation. It's gonna take practice but it's gonna be great to start helping these ppl out of their shells.

Judge each individual case as is but there's still a few at work where I am where the ice is there. At your job the ice seems impossibly solid to break for many but I hope there's others there you deem that you can build a base with to work from. The Clique are a closed circuit but hopefully the others there is a spark of hope tbh if not just look forward to the next job and new things.

Today I heard about someone who died, she was a known shoplifter around my town but she seemed friendly. I'm guessin it was drug related as the 2 often go hand in hand, it's just sad man, I really feel for those that suffer, I emphasise more with sufferers than those who have the high life, I couldn't care less about them.

Weekends are honestly the worst for my mental health, at least during the week I'm out of the house for a few hours a day at work. As much as I don't fit in, at least I'm active. On the weekends I do nothin but sit on my arse, watch strictly and masturbate to adult porn. When I had a girlfriend earlier this year, it gave me a sense of purpose in some respects.

I was actively seeing her at her house which was 30 miles away, we went to pubs and face timed each night. I miss the affection, but it wasn't true love, I mean how can it be after a few months. Before that I had a lady friend who I took to pubs and restaurants but that soon stopped. Now all I have to hang out with is an arsehole cousin who gets aggressive after a drink. Fridays and Saturdays are fuckin soul destroyin as an introvert.

The FOMO effect is strong for sure. I suffer so much with depression, so any time off work is bad for me. I wish I had an escape, somethin to look forward to. I'm so jealous of people who have exciting things to look forward to each week. Rude people, obnoxious seem to have it all in this life, meanwhile the ones with the kindest hearts suffer the most, there's no justice in this world.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

Weekends are honestly the worst for my mental health, at least during the week I'm out of the house for a few hours a day at work. As much as I don't fit in, at least I'm active. On the weekends I do nothin but sit on my arse, watch strictly and masturbate to adult porn.

It's that weird combination of love & hate. Without the structure and love at home we're just sort of lost in the confines of the four walls all weeeknd yet when we are at work it's a different type of prison too.

I was actively seeing her at her house which was 30 miles away, we went to pubs and face timed each night. I miss the affection, but it wasn't true love

I don't think it can be great for us to go this long without affection tbh. You feel within you that something profound isn't bein nourished. All those hours on The Hub dont really nourish anythin when you're sittin there starved of genuine affection.

the ones with the kindest hearts suffer the most, there's no justice in this world

Music can be a good instigator to a more positive mind but I have to be in the right mood for it tbh in order for it to be affective but when it does hit its like a beautiful drug that inspires aspirations towards brighter days n' beyond.

If you get any developments on the Job Hunt the next month or so keep me updated @TeamSilent4Life

@ShiftBlood I honestly believe that many people are fundamentally miserable and serious energy vampires. At work I've never seen so many miserable people in 1 setting in my life, it may as well be a fuckin morgue.

You dare to express yourself, have a laugh, sing and a dance and your looked down upon with contempt, like your some fuckin alien. Then you think 'what's wrong with me' when it has everythin to do with them and not us. I couldn't imagine bein in a social setting with these miserable sods, the type to sit in a corner in a vibrant club discussin work related politics. It's ironic that they have the status and all these fancy events yet their personality doesn't reflect this.

Their all in 1 click amongst each other as misery loves company so to speak. Then they treat other free spirits with contempt and look down upon them. Indifference is frowned upon in this society, if your indifferent in your looks and personality your treated as such, their silence speaks volumes.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

@ShiftBlood I honestly believe that many people are fundamentally miserable and serious energy vampires. At work I've never seen so many miserable people in 1 setting in my life, it may as well be a fuckin morgue.

They've been ground down but that's no excuse foe how they act and treat others - especially shy and retiring types. We too have been more ground down than anyone yet wherever it is we're nice to other humans. Whether it be work or the shop I'm courteous to everyone regardless. So if we can't act like that they they sure as s*** can too. Yet they choose to be rude and demeaning. And that......

.... is inexcusable.

You dare to express yourself, have a laugh, sing and a dance and your looked down upon with contempt, like your some fuckin alien. Then you think 'what's wrong with me' when it has everythin to do with them and not us. I couldn't imagine bein in a social setting with these miserable sods, the type to sit in a corner in a vibrant club discussin work related politics. It's ironic that they have the status and all these fancy events yet their personality doesn't reflect this.

Their all in 1 click amongst each other as misery loves company so to speak. Then they treat other free spirits with contempt and look down upon them. Indifference is frowned upon in this society, if your indifferent in your looks and personality your treated as such, their silence speaks volumes.

We've never fallen down that trap tho, TC. As much as we've been villified for decades now, we still hold fundemental values of respect towards others when spoken to our communicated with. If I was in a group at work I'd go out of my way to help the lonely soul on the outskirts, I really would. Yet the cliques are actively choosing to alienate said people. It's a choice that they are making.

Horrendous what's going on out there tbh, TC. My hope remains tho for the good people that are out there. They are an unbelievable small minority but they do exist.

@ShiftBlood I reiterated to a few staff today my desire to leave. Told them I want to leave this environment and start a fresh with nicer people. I was very blunt, told them how fuckin rude the staff have been to me, lookin down when they pass me in the corridor for instance and speakin to me abruptly.

I told them that we have free will, we're not confined to any organisation like a fuckin prison. The staff were shocked when I said all of this, I told them it's nothin new that I haven't already told the bosses. I told them I keep it real and say it as it is, even in other jobs I've worked in. 1 of them said she'll miss me if I leave, she's been friendly to me generally. When someone leaves they send out a letter, expressing their condolences which is all bullshit.

They've now asked me to be on site early on my day off to promote the organisation without any pay for that given day as it's an obligation, ridiculous. Maybe if I wasn't treated like a fuckin alien I'd be more inclined. The workplace reminds me of the Big Brother house, you have all these dynamics and hierarchy, then you have the outcasts, the social rejects who are unable to fit in or conform to the click establishment.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

@ShiftBlood I reiterated to a few staff today my desire to leave. Told them I want to leave this environment and start a fresh with nicer people. I was very blunt, told them how fuckin rude the staff have been to me, lookin down when they pass me in the corridor for instance and speakin to me abruptly.

I told them that we have free will, we're not confined to any organisation like a fuckin prison. The staff were shocked when I said all of this, I told them it's nothin new that I haven't already told the bosses. I told them I keep it real and say it as it is, even in other jobs I've worked in. 1 of them said she'll miss me if I leave, she's been friendly to me generally. When someone leaves they send out a letter, expressing their condolences which is all bullshit.

That's another big step, TC. You are expressing yourself out in the real world saying what you feel about the the reality of these jobs; that they're not chains of permanence. You can simply resign if it continues to be untennable. Which is what they've made it with how they are treating you as though you're nothing.

They can treat you with all this contempt yet they can't stop you from resigning. And they'll struggle to get anyone in as kind and efficient as you when you leave for a long while I'm sure. You're angst and worry ensures that you always try to do the best in regard to your work effiencancy which is ironic as that anxiety is usually the cause for the negative outcomes.

They've now asked me to be on site early on my day off to promote the organisation without any pay for that given day as it's an obligation, ridiculous. Maybe if I wasn't treated like a fuckin alien I'd be more inclined. The workplace reminds me of the Big Brother house, you have all these dynamics and hierarchy, then you have the outcasts, the social rejects who are unable to fit in or conform to the click establishment.

Havent watched any of the new Big Brother tbh. In fact I havent watched it since the peak days of 2000 - 2004. Yeah that's what was always interesting about the show in the past was how there was all these dynamics at play but I cant imagine watchin that these days tbh. Too much has changed since then for me.

Yup sounds like work. Taken advantage of yet if the shoe is on the other foot they won't give you an inch. Injustice literally everywhere.

@ShiftBlood I honestly believe that most people wouldn't mind if I was dead, which is reflected in how I'm treated, I won't give them the satisfaction. Everyday is a wakin hell, I can be in a room with staff and they won't say a single word to me, not even a friendly greetin. The odd few but that's it.

I was even shouted at by uncle for makin my mum a brew, for makin it too strong. It's reflective of the treatment I've received in general in regards to my mental health. If I dare to bring it up, I'm basically patronised and invalidated. I even told my mum that I wish I never woke up due to how I'm treated everywhere, she basically brushed it off. My mum's best mate has often told me that my feelin's are nothin and even laughed when I mentioned the domestic abuse charities that I've been in touch with this year in relation to my threatenin brother.

For anyone that stumbles across this post, I don't mention this to be flippant or attention seekin, that's not my intention. I'm just very transparent as I know others have suffered like me in some way, I have a lot of issues as I've been beaten down for so long mentally. Society is generally very close minded, it lacks understandin which is reflected through ignorance and contempt. Many sufferers of anxiety and depression are often misunderstood and judged, any perceived indifference is frowned upon, fuckin clown world we live in.

Coworkers are not your friends. At the end of the day, if you can do your job effectively, nothing else matters. You are under no obligation to speak to any of them unless it's work related.

MatzoTov posted...

Coworkers are not your friends. At the end of the day, if you can do your job effectively, nothing else matters. You are under no obligation to speak to any of them unless it's work related.

ye but still it's counter productive to harbour such a hostile environment. The least they could do is fuckin sit me down and explain to me why I don't fit in. I guess I'm just an easy scapegoat for them, it's much easier for them to ignore the quiet guy than it is to be held accountable for their own vile behaviour. Kinda similar to how no one is held accountable for fuckin up at work in any capacity.

If your 'face doesn't fit' you'll be treated as such basically. This is coupled with havin a personality that is unable to conform to the establishment so to speak. Most people exist in a bubble of pre-defined ideals. Some guy got married and they announced it at work like it was a royal occasion. I've never had status therefore I'm unable to relate to most people. Status is reflective of your place in the chain of hierarchy. As an undesirable introvert with mental health issues, I'm considered disposable trash, washed away to sea like abandoned cargo.

Is this really the case or are you playing amateur mind-reader? I had the same mentality at work for years before talking about it with my therapist. I would assume that their behavior must be because they hate me without considering that there are myriad reasons for things.

Not saying it's not possible, but please at least take a step back and reevaluate some. It changed my way of thinking about work interactions for the better.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

ye but still it's counter productive to harbour such a hostile environment. The least they could do is fuckin sit me down and explain to me why I don't fit in. I guess I'm just an easy scapegoat for them, it's much easier for them to ignore the quiet guy than it is to be held accountable for their own vile behaviour. Kinda similar to how no one is held accountable for fuckin up at work in any capacity.

I think I'm a little confused. Are they just outright ignoring you, or are they actively being hostile to you? It sounds to me like, as an introvert, you just want to keep your head down and do your job. Is them ignoring you not a good thing?

However, if they're actively bullying you and insulting you, then you need to go to your manager/HR.

TeamSilent4Life posted...

@ShiftBlood I honestly believe that most people wouldn't mind if I was dead, which is reflected in how I'm treated, I won't give them the satisfaction. Everyday is a wakin hell, I can be in a room with staff and they won't say a single word to me, not even a friendly greetin. The odd few but that's it.

I was even shouted at by uncle for makin my mum a brew, for makin it too strong. It's reflective of the treatment I've received in general in regards to my mental health. If I dare to bring it up, I'm basically patronised and invalidated. I even told my mum that I wish I never woke up due to how I'm treated everywhere, she basically brushed it off. My mum's best mate has often told me that my feelin's are nothin and even laughed when I mentioned the domestic abuse charities that I've been in touch with this year in relation to my threatenin brother.

For anyone that stumbles across this post, I don't mention this to be flippant or attention seekin, that's not my intention. I'm just very transparent as I know others have suffered like me in some way, I have a lot of issues as I've been beaten down for so long mentally. Society is generally very close minded, it lacks understandin which is reflected through ignorance and contempt. Many sufferers of anxiety and depression are often misunderstood and judged, any perceived indifference is frowned upon, fuckin clown world we live in.

It is their decision to behave like that towards you, TC. It's an active choice. I know that because I can choose to be friendly with other people or I can Ice them in injust prejudice. They are actively choosing and that's what makes it so injust and unforgivable.

I don't what anyone has been through I'll always treat others with basic respect - especially at work yet all you see there everyday is zero respect.

MatzoTov posted...

Coworkers are not your friends. At the end of the day, if you can do your job effectively, nothing else matters. You are under no obligation to speak to any of them unless it's work related.

@MatzoTov TC has been actively villified in almost every job they've had now so there is a key pattern there to this constant vlification. Unjust judgmenton their physical appearance combined with the distance from anxiety and depresion makes for a combo in the work place that is almost untenable yet there's no respite for TC. People who have compassion should be goin out of there way to take them under their wing and help ingratiate them yet they barely even acknowledge their existence. It's permanant contempt and when they are acknowledged its almost always with an air of superiority and/or contempt.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Is this really the case or are you playing amateur mind-reader? I had the same mentality at work for years before talking about it with my therapist. I would assume that their behavior must be because they hate me without considering that there are myriad reasons for things.

Not saying it's not possible, but please at least take a step back and reevaluate some. It changed my way of thinking about work interactions for the better.

It's been happening in every work space in every job their entire life, Ansestra. Though if you would; could you just go into a bit about what you learned about the other reasons that such villification exists in a given work space cos I'm very curious tbh at what that Therapist pondered as a possibilty @AnsestralRecall