Current Events > Unity plans to start charging devs per install

(+) Yeah! (+)

C_Pain posted...

Feel like every company is ramping the greed into maximum overdrive. Late stage capitalism. :(

It feels like the rich are getting stupider and stupider. Hell didnt just recently a fucking evil piece of human garbage australian rich asshole say unemployment should rise, so the employees know their place? In what world would ever saying that live on air be a smart thing to do?

question is this the stupidest decision a game company has ever made

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBXdRNTYlYQ

Even more details.
Tried sneaking in a EULA change to retroactively fuck over devs, and are trying to kill competition for their own subsidiary in a blatant monopolization attempt.

The entire Unity executive board needs to be UNDER a jail! Throw them in "the hole"!

AceMos posted...

question is this the stupidest decision a game company has ever made

Unity the company doesn't really make games themselves. They sell a game engine.

I dont really understand how this works but how are they able to retroactively change the TOS/EULA? I thought that basically any changes are a new version, and that if you dont agree to the new version, you can keep using the old version with whatever terms it had. The fact that when you start using Unity with that version of the EULA would protect you from any changes to the EULA for future versions so long as youre using the older version of Unity

Kloe_Rinz posted...

I dont really understand how this works but how are they able to retroactively change the TOS/EULA? I thought that basically any changes are a new version, and that if you dont agree to the new version, you can keep using the old version with whatever terms it had. The fact that when you start using Unity with that version of the EULA would protect you from any changes to the EULA for future versions so long as youre using the older version of Unity

That used to be the case but they changed their ToS a few months ago, possibly in preparation for this change.

They even removed the github repository that tracks changes to their ToS so that the older version wasn't available anymore:
https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/09/14/unity-license-terms-github-repo-removed-retroactive-changes

Have they explained how they would be tracking game installations?

Unity is building a wall & making the devs pay for it.

Standard rates apply to end users located in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, South Korea, United Kingdom, and the United States.
Any other install that is outside the countries listed is considered an emerging-market install, which has a significantly lower, flat install rate.

lol

Mew posted...

Have they explained how they would be tracking game installations?

All determinations, calculations of installs, and revenue related to the Unity Runtime Fee will be made by Unity in its sole discretion.

Probably a combination of spyware and guesses.

AceMos posted...

question is this the stupidest decision a game company has ever made

Not even top 100.

Look at the last few years of Acclaim's life...

Dark_Arbron posted...

Not even top 100.

Look at the last few years of Acclaim's life...

Atari did some as well.
Like producing more ET cartridges than it existed consoles.
Said no to publish the Nes in NA.
Said no to publish the Genesis in NA.

Foppe posted...

Atari did some as well.
Like producing more ET cartridges than it existed consoles.
Said no to publish the Nes in NA.
Said no to publish the Genesis in NA.

That was Atari Pac-Man cartridges. ET only had 6 million made. Pac-Man had around double that number.

My mistake.

Foppe posted...

My mistake.

Its a common mistake I see on the internet.

Foppe posted...

All determinations, calculations of installs, and revenue related to the Unity Runtime Fee will be made by Unity in its sole discretion.

Omg... source: "Trust me bro"

https://twitter.com/unity/status/1703547752205218265

One of the most cookie-cutter corporate-speak apologies possible.

Foppe posted...

Standard rates apply to end users located in Australia, Austria, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Ireland, Japan, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, South Korea, United Kingdom, and the United States.
Any other install that is outside the countries listed is considered an emerging-market install, which has a significantly lower, flat install rate.

lol

ITT: Half of europe, including Italy and Spain, is an "emerging market".

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Konami wants Nintendo to pay them a fee every time you insert the Contra cartridge in your Nes.

AuthenticZac posted...

https://twitter.com/unity/status/1703547752205218265

One of the most cookie-cutter corporate-speak apologies possible.

If they do walk back everything that will at least be nice so devs that don't have the convenience of porting their games won't be shafted.

The Long Dark, the best mundane [2] wilderness survival game ever, is made in unity and has been in development for over 6 years now. It would have been difficult for them.

https://twitter.com/Terraria_Logic/status/1704227519027651016?t=lPQv4u9Vz5cPofHiKRtH-Q

Ayy, nice.

Blue_Thunder posted...

https://twitter.com/Terraria_Logic/status/1704227519027651016?t=lPQv4u9Vz5cPofHiKRtH-Q

Ayy, nice.

Holy fuck they are gods

100,000 donation to Godot is amazing.

I've only had the pleasure of playing two games made in the Godot engine but they're both pretty great.

1. Brotato
2. Crafty Survivors

Brand suicide is pretty impressive to watch. Who in their right mind is going to make a unity game from scratch after this?

Its no coincidence that the guy who helmed EA when they won worst company in America two years running is Unitys CEO.

Blue_Thunder posted...

https://twitter.com/Terraria_Logic/status/1704227519027651016?t=lPQv4u9Vz5cPofHiKRtH-Q

Ayy, nice.

I've never had any interest in Terraria but I bought it just because of this.

PraetorXyn posted...

Its no coincidence that the guy who helmed EA when they won worst company in America two years running is Unitys CEO.

And he'll disgustingly golden parachute over to another company

voldothegr8 posted...

And he'll disgustingly golden parachute over to another company

What company will even take him after this fiasco?

St0rmFury posted...

What company will even take him after this fiasco?

What company would have taken him after the EA fiascos? Yet here we are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQK23sAJ2y8
TL;DW: An app marketing/monetization company formerly friends with Unity has released an skeleton project on Github with the end goal of being able to convert Unity code and projects into projects compatible with other game engines with the help of AI and the general public.

Intro2Logic posted...

https://blog.unity.com/news/plan-pricing-and-packaging-updates

Here are some screencaps from Bluesky that explain why this is a bad idea
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/8/5/AAc3zuAAE1ZV.jpg
https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/2/8/6/AAc3zuAAE1ZW.jpg

Last image sounds pretty based. Any AAA companies that use Unity? Hopefully Ubisoft.

SayHeyyShohei posted...

Last image sounds pretty based. Any AAA companies that use Unity? Hopefully Ubisoft.

I would believe almost all AAA companies have their own in-house engine.

St0rmFury posted...

I would believe almost all AAA companies have their own in-house engine.

There has to be a game Ubisoft or EA published that was made in Unity, right?

If this policy goes live, I hope someone finds them and starts a movement to take down the greedy companies.

St0rmFury posted...

I would believe almost all AAA companies have their own in-house engine.

For consoles/PCs, but they frequently use Unity on mobile. Ubisoft, Bethesda, Square Enix, Nintendo, Activision, EA, and of course plenty of gacha game devs. They're unlikely to chime in on any of the grassroots call outs but they assuredly have been saying a few things directly to Unity.

St0rmFury posted...

What company will even take him after this fiasco?

Lots of them. Theyll pay him tens or hundreds of millions to ruin their company, and then theyll pay him millions in bonuses after he does.

We live in stupid world. The dumbest people run it.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

That's why it's such a big deal. It doesn't matter if it results in smaller fees compared to Unreal, or it doesn't affect small devs (though the removal of Plus does that anyway), or they backtrack. Unity has shown they're totally fine making abrupt, sweeping changes. There's no reason to doubt they wouldn't arbitrarily raise the fee to $0.25 per install, retroactively collect payment based on that, and lower the thresholds to $150,000 and 150,000 downloads.

While it's easy to blame Riccitiello for all this, the problems within Unity allegedly started when their own board members desire for infinite growth overshadowed their goal of making a good game engine for all. No disrespect to the actual engineers but looking into it you get the sense Unity leadership prioritized making the engine more accessible by adding features nobody asked for as opposed to addressing increasingly long standing issues. They also have an obligation to put their shareholders above all else, which is likely why they shoehorned in AI stuff.

Unity finally made an update.

https://unity.com/pricing-updates

It's better, but the fact they removed the clause preventing retroactive changes in the EULA in the first place just makes me not trust them anymore. At least it's good for people deep in development with their Unity projects currently, but I'm sticking with Godot.

No games created with any currently supported Unity versions will be impacted. Only those created with or upgraded to the Long Term Support (LTS) version releasing in 2024 (or later), currently referred to as the 2023 LTS will be impacted.

This is good, fair play to Unity for backing down on this. At least existing games and currently in-development games can stick to older versions of the engine.

It sounds like they're dropping the whole 'per install' and rephrased it to 'once per unique user' which is at least reasonable. Still though, I can imagine devs being hesitant after what Unity tried to pull here.

Hornezz posted...

This is good

No, none of this is good. Stop giving them credit where none is due.

Doesn't matter what unity does any dev would be crazy to create a new game with it at this point

UnholyMudcrab posted...

No, none of this is good. Stop giving them credit where none is due.

Of course the change is good. If they implemented these fees on games that were already released, or far into development that would be seriously messed up.

Hornezz posted...

Of course the change is good. If they implemented these fees on games that were already released, or far into development that would be seriously messed up.

You've been suckered. They started with something completely awful, then backtracked to something a bit less awful, and now you're singing their praises like their updated plan isn't still bad.

UnholyMudcrab posted...

like their updated plan isn't still bad.

It isn't. The fees are capped at 2.5% monthly revenue, Unreal for example charges 5%. More importantly: no one is getting retroactively forced into this plan. It only applies to projects using future versions, so devs are free to choose their engine with that info in mind.

If this was their initial proposal there wouldn't have been any drama whatsoever. You're free to have your Gamer outrage though.

we demand equal rights, equal access to the surface, and the blood of your first-born children! (that's so we have something to give up in the negotiations)

Hornezz posted...

If this was their initial proposal there wouldn't have been any drama whatsoever. You're free to have your Gamer outrage though

Just because you do closer to the right thing only after universal overwhelming backlash over a breach of trust, doesn't mean people are obliged to let it all be water under the bridge. It will take a long time if ever for Unity to rebuild its relationships with the larger community, and that's a good thing.

I still don't see any incentive for devs to stick with unity. Or they never upgrade.

Even if the fee is more fair now, the trust and basic social contract of the engine is ruined.

Starks posted...

I still don't see any incentive for devs to stick with unity. Or they never upgrade.

Even if the fee is more fair now, the trust and basic social contract of the engine is ruined.

Correct.

Even with the new free version perk there's no reason to trust them.

Hornezz posted...

It isn't. The fees are capped at 2.5% monthly revenue, Unreal for example charges 5%. More importantly: no one is getting retroactively forced into this plan. It only applies to projects using future versions, so devs are free to choose their engine with that info in mind.

If this was their initial proposal there wouldn't have been any drama whatsoever. You're free to have your Gamer outrage though.

This is misleading because Unity charges a fee to use it for the Pro edition, whereas Unreal is free to use

the 2.5% plus the Unity Pro per-user fee could easily be more than 5%

TheGoldenEel posted...

the 2.5% plus the Unity Pro per-user fee could easily be more than 5%

The massive subscription is $5000. The fee for that tier doesn't kick in until $1m so it's mathematically impossible for the subscription+install fee to be more than 5%

Unity clarified something on a tweet, and yeah, further proof I'm not trusting them. They're gonna re-evaluate pricing and fees on an annual basis. So the current update they have isn't even gonna stick for long.

https://twitter.com/Sosowski/status/1705274517289845198?s=20