Current Events > Communism: Give a man a home and he will think of how to fill it

(+) Yeah! (+)

IShall_Run_Amok posted...

Capitalism absolutely needs those things to flourish. It developed as a system in order to fully take advantage of those things.

Off the top of my head, not Japan, Singapore or china needed any of those thing to grow as much as they did in only a few decades.

And even then country's that did have it like the US eventually did away with it because of said capitalism. Funny how that tid bit is conviently forgotten.

Prismsblade posted...

Off the top of my head, not Japan, Singapore or china needed any of those thing to grow as much as they did in only a few decades.

And even then country's that did have it like the US eventually did away with it because of said capitalism. Funny how that tid bit is conviently forgotten.

The USA didn't do away with slavery because of capitalism? They did away with slavery because of a war. Plenty of capitalists were using slaves right up until then most would have been just as happy to continue using slaves for as long as they could.

royic posted...

uhh social contract, cateogorical imperative, ontological argument am I doing this right

so you're saying, copy, legislate, moralize, complicated... you'd need to expand on why you added the last one.

my argument is you will never recreate the same thing with different demos.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

so you're saying, copy, legislate, moralize, complicated... you'd need to expand on why you added the last one.

my argument is you will never recreate the same thing with different demos.

I was just listing a string of words instead of using them to make an argument I thought that's what the game was

There is no really solid argument for as to why milquetoast scandy democratic socialism couldn't work almost anywhere. Norway doesn't count because they have more oil than people.

Gray_Areas posted...

The USA didn't do away with slavery because of capitalism? They did away with slavery because of a war.

Pretty sure it existed in some capaicty still even after the war. But The industrial revolution wasn't long afterward along with the death of industries like cotten. We went to war with our selves for a self correcting issue.

Chinas one child policy was pretty much the same.

royic posted...

I was just listing a string of words instead of using them to make an argument I thought that's what the game was

There is no really solid argument for as to why milquetoast scandy democratic socialism couldn't work almost anywhere. Norway doesn't count because they have more oil than people.

so just admit you don't like benevolent globalism

Prismsblade posted...

Pretty sure it existed in some capaicty still even after the war. But The industrial revolution wasn't long afterward along with the death of industries like cotten. We went to war with our selves for a self correcting issue.

Chinas one child policy was pretty much the same.

Slavery lasted long after the industrial revolution in the US. It was only once WW2 started that it really left the US and even then there were still holdout locations spattered about.

MedeaLysistrata posted...

so just admit you don't like benevolent globalism

why would I need to admit to having an opinion on something entirely out of the scope of this conversation

royic posted...

why would I need to admit to having an opinion on something entirely out of the scope of this conversation

material conditions are global, people think better because that is legislated and moralized

MedeaLysistrata posted...

material conditions are global, people think better because that is legislated and moralized

we should certainly legislate that people think better

royic posted...

we should certainly legislate that people think better

but, companies do most of the thinking

Gray_Areas posted...

The USA didn't do away with slavery because of capitalism? They did away with slavery because of a war. Plenty of capitalists were using slaves right up until then most would have been just as happy to continue using slaves for as long as they could.

This, what the fuck lol. If there hadn't been violent upheaval, the US would have been using slaves well into the industrial revolution. What part of capitalism necessitated the end of slavery?

Gwynevere posted...

This, what the fuck lol. If there hadn't been violent upheaval, the US would have been using slaves well into the industrial revolution. What part of capitalism necessitated the end of slavery?

Capitalism is built on (wage) slavery. It hasn't really gone anywhere. The particulars have somewhat changed.

creativerealms posted...

Maybe so. And yet its always happened. There are always people who will corrupt and take over a movement no matter how pure the intentions.

Does that mean we should do nothing and give up? Of course not. Just be careful

It's also the fact that pretty much every attempt of worker organization is (violently if necessary) sabotaged by capital. That shouldn't be justification to stop trying.

DKBananaSlamma posted...

Also communism: let's kill millions of people for teh lulz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

damn

Gwynevere posted...

This, what the fuck lol. If there hadn't been violent upheaval, the US would have been using slaves well into the industrial revolution. What part of capitalism necessitated the end of slavery?

The US are still using slaves. The amendment to the constitution specifically allows enslaving prisoners, and guess when states started convicting black people of various crimes to make them into prisoners?

It's always weird when people pretend anything about communism has any sort of validity. There's no doubt there's a better hypothetical system than what we currently have, but it would never be communism in a million years.

Nemu posted...

It's always weird when people pretend anything about communism has any sort of validity. There's no doubt there's a better hypothetical system than what we currently have, but it would never be communism in a million years.

We can't even get people to agree what communism even is. What makes you think that people would not push for something that can be whatever you want it to be?

Nemu posted...

It's always weird when people pretend anything about communism has any sort of validity. There's no doubt there's a better hypothetical system than what we currently have, but it would never be communism in a million years.

it's not even true that material conditions change being. the progress of form does.

KanWan posted...

Capitalism is great because I get to go visit Communist countries

which wouldnt happen if I was living in a communist country cmon, bro,
think about it

My collage roommate was Chinese. Are you saying that China isn't communist?

KanWan posted...

Im saying going from one communist country to another means that you could probably care less what the differences are unless some other kind of difference exists that separates and makes for a difference

introduction to the negation

ellis123 posted...

My collage roommate was Chinese. Are you saying that China isn't communist?

Who in China controls production? Is it the workers?

My friend's roommate in freshman year of college hung up this GIANT communist flag across his side of the wall. My friend responded by putting a little toothpick sized American flag on his desk. It was a hilarious visual and I wish I took a picture of it >_> Neither of them didnt have any beef over it iirc, but they never hung out together either

Yes, that roommate was a weird loner. I think he ended up dropping out like 2 years later

DKBananaSlamma posted...

My friend's roommate in freshman year of college hung up this GIANT communist flag across his side of the wall. My friend responded by putting a little toothpick sized American flag on his desk. It was a hilarious visual and I wish I took a picture of it >_>

Yes, that roommate was a weird loner. I think he ended up dropping out like 2 years later

is x relevant or not?

x? The dumb new twitter name? Sorta I guess. People debate stuff like communism all the time on there I assume.

No more human governance.

KanWan posted...

If there were ever a true thing, it would be the negation. Those are about the only true aspects of a theory in which the ideas live or die at its introduction anyway.

How do you feel about nationalism?

nationalism is the locus of idealism, a universal ideal is merely a concept and reduces everything to quantity

Capitalism: rich investors buy up all the homes leaving none for the poor

Communism: kill the bourgeois land owners and redistribute the homes among the proletariat

Fascism: invade neighboring country, exterminate the populace, and use the new living space for the "chosen" people

FL81 posted...

Capitalism: rich investors buy up all the homes leaving none for the poor

Communism: kill the bourgeois land owners and redistribute the homes among the proletariat

Fascism: invade neighboring country, exterminate the populace, and use the new living space for the "chosen" people

maybe, pretty much, i hope you haven't seen this and agree because that is actually beyond me

GOAT topic

Prismsblade posted...

Pretty sure it existed in some capaicty still even after the war. But The industrial revolution wasn't long afterward along with the death of industries like cotten. We went to war with our selves for a self correcting issue.

Chinas one child policy was pretty much the same.

Slavery as we call it only stopped because the law and a war fought to make sure that law was obeyed.

Your claim forgets the company town which was a new form of slavery which only ceased to exist also due to violence forcing the hand and law.

WingsOfGood posted...

Slavery as we call it only stopped because the law and a war fought to make sure that law was obeyed.

Your claim forgets the company town which was a new form of slavery which only ceased to exist also due to violence forcing the hand and law.

Now modern slavery is prison labor.

AnsestralRecall posted...

Now modern slavery is prison labor.

Also undocumented workers having threat of deportation looming and thus work super long hours at low pay and taken advantage of in numerous ways.

It is fundamental to Capitalism.

WingsOfGood posted...

Also undocumented workers having threat of deportation looming and thus work super long hours at low pay and taken advantage of in numerous ways.

It is fundamental to Capitalism.

Yep. GOP wants to hammer on about undocumented immigrants, but the second they manage to do anything about them they will be crying for them right away to come back.

capitalism sucks but communism is one of the dumbest and worst failed systems to have existed in history. we can improve society without turning into a hellscape where everyone but the party elites are in danger of starving to death.

america sucks for many people but we don't have millions of people starving throughout the country and the quality of life for the poor is still among the best in human history

andel posted...

america sucks for many people but we don't have millions of people starving throughout the country

As of right now the number appears to be 34 million people are starving.

andel posted...

america sucks for many people but we don't have millions of people starving throughout the country

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america

34 million people in the United States are food insecure
9 million children are food insecure
100% of US counties have food insecurity
Many households that experience food insecurity do not qualify for federal nutrition programs
Hunger in African American, Latino, and Native American communities is higher because of systemic racial injustice

DKBananaSlamma posted...

Also communism: let's kill millions of people for teh lulz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_regimes

Those are rookie numbers. I have some bad news for you about capitalism

ellis123 posted...

As of right now the number appears to be 34 million people are starving.

CryoForceOmelet posted...

https://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america

food insecurity is not starvation...being purposefully obtuse doesn't do you any favors and comparing food insecurity to millions of people dying of starvation is really a bad look

andel posted...

food insecurity is not starvation...being purposefully obtuse doesn't do you any favors and comparing food insecurity to millions of people dying of starvation is really a bad look

As obtuse as comparing material conditions in the wealthiest country in the world to developing countries, regardless of eithers' ideologies?

Food insecurity exists because people need to make their own food sometimes

andel posted...

capitalism sucks but communism is one of the dumbest and worst failed systems to have existed in history. we can improve society without turning into a hellscape where everyone but the party elites are in danger of starving to death.

america sucks for many people but we don't have millions of people starving throughout the country and the quality of life for the poor is still among the best in human history

There is nothing inherently part of communism that directly leads to violent despots running the show and sacrificing their population.

It isn't communism that lead to totalitarian dictators. Totalitarian dictators exist in multiple economic systems.

Capitalism, however, does sacrifice the poor on the altar of endless growth and profit. It is a system that is inseparable from the death and despair it causes.

CryoForceOmelet posted...

As obtuse as comparing material conditions in the wealthiest country in the world to developing countries, regardless of eithers' ideologies?

russia was not a developing nation, it was a world power before during and after communism.

AnsestralRecall posted...

There is nothing inherently part of communism that directly leads to violent despots running the show and sacrificing their population.

It isn't communism that lead to totalitarian dictators. Totalitarian dictators exist in multiple economic systems.

Capitalism, however, does sacrifice the poor on the altar of endless growth and profit. It is a system that is inseparable from the death and despair it causes.

the nation's with the highest standard of living in the world are all capitalist countries. obv they aren't perfect but they are proven to be much better than the communist experiment that always leads to despotism and genocide. communism is a system that definitely leads to authoritarian rule as we have seen with each and every example ever implemented in this world.

some nations that try capitalism fail but every single nation that tries communism is awful for the people living in its borders provided they aren't part of the ruling class. somehow capitalism is the best economic model we have considering all of the world's wealthiest and most inhabitable nations have a capitalist system of a kind.

you have to go to #25 before you get to a non capitalist country and that country is china which only started to prosper when it abandoned the communist economic system

the world is already somewhat authoritarian.

andel posted...

the nation's with the highest standard of living in the world are all capitalist countries. obv they aren't perfect but they are proven to be much better than the communist experiment that always leads to despotism and genocide. communism is a system that definitely leads to authoritarian rule as we have seen with each and every example ever implemented in this world.

those nations are only the way they are by exploiting underdeveloped nations.. stealing natural resources, benefiting from hundreds of years of slavery and colonization. it is naive at best to say that it is capitalism that is the reason for the prosperity.

each and every example? bud don't embarrass yourself.