Current Events > As a non native English speaker, whats the deal with "female"?

(+) Yeah! (+)

Im being honest, not trying to troll. Im 35 and speak english since I was 8 or so. Ive always though of female as a synonym to woman? And the same as saying male.

So why lately is it being loosely linked to incel talk? Going by spanish translations men=hombre, woman= mujer which is the most common way to refer to..uh...people. Then male=macho and female= hembra which in spanish we use mostly for animals rather than people.

But it seems Ive missed this nuance in english til now? Since female has always been commonly used, Id never seen the harm in saying it as well.

JuanCarlos1 posted...

female= hembra which in spanish we use mostly for animals rather than people.

not too far off if you're not trolling.

Marked for saying a bad word

Female has--somehow--become a much more derogatory way to refer to human females. I do not know when this change ocurred, but it definitely has. Not just incels, either, but I've noticed it in black culture as well, for some reason (in that case I think it's just a dialect difference, but still).

This is actually a good question, not a troll at all. I've wondered it myself.

Oh there is nothing technically wrong. The issue is a lot of creeps really emphasize the word female when talking and it has basically become a test to spot the incel.

Is this like when the OK symbol / Circle Game became racist? >_> How does this keep happening

VRX3000 posted...

The issue is a lot of creeps really emphasize the word female when talking and it has basically become a test to spot the incel.

I've not seen this. It almost sounds made up.

Some dude on Reddit got banned for it, and I don't think he used it as an offensive term.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/4/1/AAAHH2AAEz0p.jpg

Using a more technical or scientific term for certain groups is a way for some people to otherize or demean them subconsciously. Like how someone in 2023 who exclusively call gay people homosexuals. Its technically the truth, but its usually a sign that this person is at least a little bit bigoted.

DKBananaSlamma posted...

Is this like when the OK symbol / Circle Game became racist? >_> How does this keep happening

Language is constantly evolving. That's just what living languages do.

In your example, it is not uncommon for groups to co-opt words, phrases, or symbols for their own ends. Of more recent vintage, see how "gay" and "queer" have been reclaimed. Or how terfs tried to coopt "gynesexual" some years ago (I din't expect you to know that one, as it's a rather niche example).

Someone women don't like being called Female that's it. Nothing more to think about. It is a correct term. But it doesn't matter if people don't like it , just don't use it.

Dont worry about incel slang

It's been poisoned by incels because they talk about women like they're a different species

It's a slightly dehumanizing term-- it refers to women in a more scientific way than in a "that's a person" way

"Female" is an adjective, not a noun. Saying "Taylor is a female" is weird, saying "Taylor is female" is not.

MisterPengy posted...

"Female" is an adjective, not a noun. Saying "Taylor is a female" is weird, saying "Taylor is female" is not.

Female can be a noun as well. In Social Sciences we class people by male and female all the time. Again people are trying to find reasons for people not to like it. I don't think we should. Like how colored people vs people of color. Seem like they should have the same weight but they don't.

you can't say, all females and have it be scientific
you can try to say, all women and have it be reasonable

Going by spanish translations men=hombre, woman= mujer which is the most common way to refer to..uh...people. Then male=macho and female= hembra which in spanish we use mostly for animals rather than people.

Lo encontraste.

VeggetaX posted...

Some dude on Reddit got banned for it, and I don't think he used it as an offensive term.

https://gamefaqs.gamespot.com/a/user_image/8/4/1/AAAHH2AAEz0p.jpg

Who keeps making morons moderators?

hahahahahaha is that actually from ign?

VeggetaX posted...

I've not seen this. It almost sounds made up.

Yes you have dont play dumb.

Definitely weird to use male/female for that kinda stuff. But sexist and derogatory? That's definitely a new one to me. I'm an open-minded guy. If society themes a certain word now no longer acceptable then I will follow through.

But off the top of my head the recent times I've used female would be FMC for female main characters or something else like "Less than 5% of users here are females".

VeggetaX posted...

Definitely weird to use male/female for that kinda stuff. But sexist and derogatory? That's definitely a new one to me. I'm an open-minded guy. If society themes a certain word now no longer acceptable then I will follow through.

But off the top of my head the recent times I've used female would be FMC for female main characters or something else like "Less than 5% of users here are females".

no it isnt. you were on LL same as I was and it was prevalent on the anon board/tag

Xenogears15 posted...

Language is constantly evolving. That's just what living languages do.

In your example, it is not uncommon for groups to co-opt words, phrases, or symbols for their own ends. Of more recent vintage, see how "gay" and "queer" have been reclaimed by the LGBT+ community. Or how terfs tried to coopt "gynesexual" some years ago (I din't expect you to know that one, as it's a rather niche example).

I gotcha now. I thought at first people wanted to blanket ban the word female on everything lol. But looking into this more I see they're just using female as a noun rather than an adjective. Using the word in that way is weird and I see the dehumanizing nature of it >_>

Yeah saying female as a replacement for woman kinda just carries a pretty gross vibe. It's been a thing for years but the grossness of it got way worse after openly misogynistic groups of people adopted it as their way to refer to women.

The use of it as an adjective is still 100% fine though.

"Female" gets used in place of "woman" in a way that "male" just doesn't in place of "men".

That in itself isn't necessarily a problem, language is hardly an exact science and it's not like it develops in perfect symmetry. But the problem is that the people who use female that way very frequently do so in misogynistic contexts. Because of this association, the use of female in place of women causes others to assume that the person doing so also hold misogynistic beliefs. It isn't inherently damning but it is a red-flag, so people will be understandably cautious.

reminds me Sanderson used "the femalen" in one stormlight book but I think he stopped that later.

VeggetaX posted...

Definitely weird to use male/female for that kinda stuff. But sexist and derogatory? That's definitely a new one to me. I'm an open-minded guy. If society themes a certain word now no longer acceptable then I will follow through.

But off the top of my head the recent times I've used female would be FMC for female main characters or something else like "Less than 5% of users here are females".

Generally that's how it's used. And sometimes it's specified as female or male because they are using it to mean that it's not referring to a specific age range. Or they're talking in a scientific way.

IDK, it still feels like a really strange area. Like if you said "females have periods but males don't." Is that considered offensive here? I can see how it could be derogatory in instances, but this feels like one of those rules that's there primarily for rage bait.

Rai_Jin posted...

reminds me Sanderson used "the femalen" in one stormlight book but I think he stopped that later.

To Sanderson's credit, he is very consistent in using the singer genders. Femalen gets used the same way Malen does.

Gladius_ posted...

In this context

"Female main character" is okay. Now if you said "The main character" the best way to end that is.. "The main character is a woman."

The second one should be "Less than 5% of the users here are women." I wouldn't get bent out of shape for the latter.

Wat. It's fine either way. I would also say "The main character is male" in the exact same context.

semantics

Over here, "progressive" people like to play victim quite a bit, and kind of choose random things to be hugely upset about like female, OK hand gestures, master/slave cables, anyone under the age of 25 dating, etc.

good for you

pikakaeru posted...

Yes you have dont play dumb.

Dis

His posting is unnecessary too, but here we are.

MisterPengy posted...

"Female" is an adjective, not a noun. Saying "Taylor is a female" is weird, saying "Taylor is female" is not.

This. People using it as a noun sound like damn Ferengi.

MisterPengy posted...

"Female" is an adjective, not a noun. Saying "Taylor is a female" is weird, saying "Taylor is female" is not.

Essentially this. Male and female are adjectives and man and woman are nouns. They do sometimes get used in other contexts, but in everyday speech these are the conventions. So when someone uses female as a noun, it is kind of taking away that persons identity as a being and making that person a description.

I actually get annoyed at the opposite usage as well, such as woman scientist, because woman is not generally supposed to modify another noun. Its not offensive, exactly, but I do wonder at the speakers (or writers) intent.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

I honestly don't think it should be. Because it's generally how it works. It's more confusing to bring up other caveats. It's like bringing up gas bikes when people say something akin to "biking is a healthy habit that's good for the environment."

Sariana21 posted...

Essentially this. Male and female are adjectives and man and woman are nouns. They do sometimes get used in other contexts, but in everyday speech these are the conventions. So when someone uses female as a noun, it is kind of taking away that persons identity as a being and making that person a description.

I actually get annoyed at the opposite usage as well, such as woman scientist, because woman is not generally supposed to modify another noun. Its not offensive, exactly, but I do wonder at the speakers (or writers) intent.

Male and female are nouns as well. It's both. That's why I said this isn't a good way to go about looking at things.

That is annoying, but some of that is probably birthed from people being afraid to use "female." Which is some of the reason I don't think it should be considered offensive in the least. I think it's a context thing that matters. Example "the male cooked a family dish." "the female mowed the lawn." It sounds very strange-- almost alien when you say it that way.

PesticideDream posted...

Over here, "progressive" people like to play victim quite a bit, and kind of choose random things to be hugely upset about like female, OK hand gestures, master/slave cables, anyone under the age of 25 dating, etc.

Tag holds up

It's always come across as quite weird and at worst creepy to me to refer to human girls or women as "females". If the person calling women "females" doesn't also conversely call men "males" then yes it is a red flag.

McMarbles posted...

People using it as a noun sound like damn Ferengi.

A good comparison.

[LFAQs-redacted-quote]

Fair I suppose I guess it was a bad example, the point was more so that it seems strange for people to get offended about the use of "female" and "male" all of the time. I generally use it when I'm referring to the gender without an age range. Because I think it's weird to call children "men and women" and saying "men, women, girls, and boys..." Is an absolute mouth full.